OMG!!! Can they do this??

[mrtexmex2007]

Is this legal??? Today I heard 95.7 with a commercial that said something like this!
Welcome to the music hotline! To listen to boring KRBE press one, to listen to hot 95.7 press the hot button! Can stations talk bad about other stations? I remember back in the days when KROI was La Mera Mera the commercials would say, ( Well in spanish of course) In KLOVE you listen to Los Temerarios around one time every 5 hours but we play them every hour!! But they would not metion Estereo Latino, all they would say is, In Estereo they have super thursday but not us we have super everyday!! But they would leave out the Latino part they would only call it Estereo!

 

[CW]

Is this legal??? Today I heard 95.7 with a commercial that said something like this!
Welcome to the music hotline! To listen to boring KRBE press one, to listen to hot 95.7 press the hot button! Can stations talk bad about other stations? I remember back in the days when KROI was La Mera Mera the commercials would say, ( Well in spanish of course) In KLOVE you listen to Los Temerarios around one time every 5 hours but we play them every hour!! But they would not metion Estereo Latino, all they would say is, In Estereo they have super thursday but not us we have super everyday!! But they would leave out the Latino part they would only call it Estereo!

Where have you been the last 5-10 years?? You never heard the 93Q commercials blasting KILT FM?? Geesh.....time to roam the FM band a little more.....Yes, they can do it......nothing illegal on that promo (wasnt a commercial since it was not a revenue maker...just a promotion on their own station...)

 

[snoman]

CW's right. It's not illegal, it's just stupid. Mentioning the competition directly, whether it is good or bad, is just another plug for them. No matter if it is good or bad, you don't give free publicity. Also, you don't make yourself look better, by making your competition look worse.

And, 93Q is still mentioning KILT.

 

[davideduardo]

Is this legal??? Today I heard 95.7 with a commercial that said something like this!
Welcome to the music hotline! To listen to boring KRBE press one, to listen to hot 95.7 press the hot button! Can stations talk bad about other stations? I remember back in the days when KROI was La Mera Mera the commercials would say, ( Well in spanish of course) In KLOVE you listen to Los Temerarios around one time every 5 hours but we play them every hour!! But they would not metion Estereo Latino, all they would say is, In Estereo they have super thursday but not us we have super everyday!! But they would leave out the Latino part they would only call it Estereo!

A challenger can point out weaknesses in an established competitor... it makes the competitor spend more time worrying about the new station than their own. And it tells the listeners about supposed defects so they will sample the new station more. It is a fine tactic when you have nothing to lose.

 

[rocknrollisdead]

Is this legal??? Today I heard 95.7 with a commercial that said something like this!
Welcome to the music hotline! To listen to boring KRBE press one, to listen to hot 95.7 press the hot button! Can stations talk bad about other stations? I remember back in the days when KROI was La Mera Mera the commercials would say, ( Well in spanish of course) In KLOVE you listen to Los Temerarios around one time every 5 hours but we play them every hour!! But they would not metion Estereo Latino, all they would say is, In Estereo they have super thursday but not us we have super everyday!! But they would leave out the Latino part they would only call it Estereo!

I've always thought of it as a double-edged sword. On one hand you're exposing your competitor to your audience which keeps them top-of-mind. On the other, you could come off as a better alternative to the competitor.

Personally, I wouldn't do it.

 

[kendro]

As a listener, I thought it was stupid. Just like the "less is more" BS.

 

[Theo_Huxtable]

What's that saying? "When you've got nothing at all, you've got nothing to lose" . 95.7 has nothing to lose by calling out their competition. That's typically a move a station makes when they aren't on top, or anywhere near the top. You don't see a lot of top end stations doing that. Personally I think it's dumb, but if I had to make a list of all of the dumb things some people in radio do I'd kill off half of the rain forests in the world.

 

[FilioScotia]

I agree with whomever said it's legal but it's profoundly stupid. I came up in radio under managers and PD's who had the attitude that those other stations don't even exist.

We focused our time, money and energies on our own programs, promotions and projects, and ignored anything and everything our competitors did. I still believe that any radio station that resorts to comparing itself to the competitors needs a new manager. One with some imagination.

I once saw a PD chew a newsman's ass down to his shoe-tops for mentioning another station's call-letters in a news story about an event at the zoo that was sponsored by that other station.

I'll never forget how he put it. "THOSE OTHER STATIONS ARE CHASING THE SAME AD DOLLARS WE'RE CHASING AND WE DON'T GIVE THEM FREE PROMOTIONS BY EVEN MENTIONING THEM ON OUR AIR !!"

I think that sums up how I feel about it.

 

[ShaneofTexas]

CW's right. It's not illegal, it's just stupid. Mentioning the competition directly, whether it is good or bad, is just another plug for them. No matter if it is good or bad, you don't give free publicity. Also, you don't make yourself look better, by making your competition look worse.

And, 93Q is still mentioning KILT.

Notice that KILT don't bash 93Q in return? Because they are "above" them. Why stoop to 93q's level and respond back.

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

I agree with whomever said it's legal but it's profoundly stupid. I came up in radio under managers and PD's who had the attitude that those other stations don't even exist.

We focused our time, money and energies on our own programs, promotions and projects, and ignored anything and everything our competitors did. I still believe that any radio station that resorts to comparing itself to the competitors needs a new manager. One with some imagination.

I once saw a PD chew a newsman's ass down to his shoe-tops for mentioning another station's call-letters in a news story about an event at the zoo that was sponsored by that other station.

I'll never forget how he put it. "THOSE OTHER STATIONS ARE CHASING THE SAME AD DOLLARS WE'RE CHASING AND WE DON'T GIVE THEM FREE PROMOTIONS BY EVEN MENTIONING THEM ON OUR AIR !!"

I think that sums up how I feel about it.

Yeah, that's pretty much the school of thought upon which I was raised. "Other guys? What other guys?" In fact, I've worked for stations where we actually had to change the temperature (at least, what we reported) if it was going to land on a competitor's dial number. I recall the PD of that station telling us, "It's 102 or almost 104 degrees, but it's never 103." That may have been going a bit overboard, but I can appreciate his reasoning.

 

[Kent]

Yeah, that's pretty much the school of thought upon which I was raised. "Other guys? What other guys?" In fact, I've worked for stations where we actually had to change the temperature (at least, what we reported) if it was going to land on a competitor's dial number. I recall the PD of that station telling us, "It's 102 or almost 104 degrees, but it's never 103." That may have been going a bit overboard, but I can appreciate his reasoning.

I once worked at a station competing against a station called "Clear 99." We were told, "The temperature is NEVER 99. If it says it's 99, it's always either 98 or 100. Also, the sky is never clear. If the forecast says 'clear skies' use 'cloudless,' 'sunny,' or 'starry' instead!"

Oddly enough, the PD who ran that station was once a PD in Houston! While I can understand the thinking, I thought it was pretty ludicrous to go that far into detail to avoid mentioning the competitor. However, my thinking may be a contradiction because I've always been a big believer that there is no such thing as bad publicity. If I'm getting free time on a competitor's airwaves, I'm obviously doing something right!

 

[radiolives]

I know a station where I used to live. When they fipped to Hip Hop and starting playing 18 Jamz In A Row they called out the Top 40 station. Saying something like Kiss only plays 10 in a row while we play 18 Jamz In A Row. Soon after Kiss starting saying they played 20 songs in a row, soon Hot was getting up in the ratings. Now today Hot is above the top 40 station.

 

[CHRles]

Have you guys never been schooled to a gold fashioned Top 40 rivalry? ???
One of the most famous battles occured in the very early 90s in Tampa Bay between newly launched Power 93 The Power Pig (AKA WFLZ) and the then heritage CHR, Q-105. The Power Pig contantly ran liners that bashed Q-105, and they were brilliant!
What about the infamous Top 40 rivalry in NYC in the 80s between Z-100 and Power 95? I also remember the DJs at Hot 105 Miami bashing both Power 96 and Y-100. In the early part of this decade over in Toronto Kiss 92 used to bash Energy Radio, when those stations did CHR.

And what of Houston's own 80s battle between 93Q and Power 104?

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

CHRls, sure, that's just one experience I had. I've seen it work, but I've never felt it was necessary. I'm good about learning from wiser people than I; the PD I've trusted and believed the most in my entire career was the one who had the "Say Other Guys And Die" philosophy (although he wasn't the weather-retentive guy), and since he never steered me wrong a single time in life, I'm with that philosophy. There's not a bit of shame in trying to win by taking the high road and bringing your own game to the table.

I've seen it work, true, like the semi-rivalry between Outlaw Dave and Tha Whipping Boy a few years back. However, I've also seen it get ugly and personal. At Rock 105 in Jacksonville, Leard ordered several pizzas for, and did some courtesy doughnuts in the landscaping of, WAPE. Eventually, things got to the point were talking smack about his wife and speculating about the true paternity of his new baby daughter on the air. While that might have been thrilling radio for 4.3 hardcore listeners, it really didn't do anybody any good in the long run---especially when the LMA took effect and we all found ourselves sharing the hallways. Did anybody win any listeners past half a diary? Probably not. Was bad radio done? Yepper, on both sides. Most importantly, criteria # 1: Did it stop being about the listeners? Yes.

 

[jayxs]

You guys make it sound like Houstonians aren't already aware of KRBE. It makes no difference if HOT blasts them and names their frequency, it's common knowledge. Personally I like the competition going on. KRBE IS talking back...

"104.1 KRBE. Houston's hottest radio station, one million listeners can't be wrong."

Houston hasn't had a Q105/Power Pig type rivalry. I don't think it's ever been that intense anywhere else for that matter. Power 93 went hardcore on Q105. For those who aren't familiar, it's an awesome story. (www.thepowerpig.com) I do remember hearing about Hot 97-1 staff getting into a physical fight with a rival station (KBXX? KPTY?) while both stations were doing a remote. It made the local newscasts. That must have been around seven years ago.

 

[ChuckTiller]

Houston hasn't had a Q105/Power Pig type rivalry.

In the late 1950s and 1960s, Houston had a big rivalry between Top 40 The Big 610 KILT and 1230 KNUZ. Yes, it has been done in Houston before. In the 1970s, the rivalry shifted to 610 KILT, 104 KRBE and 94 KRLY. KRBE beat the hell out of KRLY and of course KILT was on 610AM, so that didn't take long. Additionally, many of the KILT DJs went to KRBE. KRBE laid the groundwork for its successes today. At one time, KRBE became very close to becoming country KENR-FM, sister station to 1070 KENR. Had that happened, this discussion would be about another radio station.

Station rivalry has been going on for a long time.

 

[SPOTS FOR DOTS]

Well said Mr. Tiller. Competition is good for both the defender and the attacker. In the end, the advertisers and the listeners get a better product from each. With the cluster universe radio rotates in, there isn't that much competition anymore and that ends up with less compelling reasons to visit the medium. If everyone is driving in seperate lanes.......radio is pretty boring. We need some more NASCAR style programming. Let the paint be traded!

 

[Kent]

Have you guys never been schooled to a gold fashioned Top 40 rivalry? ???
One of the most famous battles occured in the very early 90s in Tampa Bay between newly launched Power 93 The Power Pig (AKA WFLZ) and the then heritage CHR, Q-105. The Power Pig contantly ran liners that bashed Q-105, and they were brilliant!

What the Q-105/Power Pig rivalry proved more than anything was that a terrible station couldn't survive a more focused competitor no matter what that competitor did. The Q-105/Power Pig battle may be the only one where the basher was victorious, and it had more to do with Q-105 than it did with Power Pig. How many CHR's in the late 80's were still ramming gold songs that were 15 years old down listeners' throats? Q-105 did, and the Power Pig didn't. The Power Pig really succeeded in spite of itself because the competition went out of its way to avoid giving its listeners what they wanted. There were a couple of ironies in the battle. One was that Q-105 actually won a few books and was close in the ones it lost after Clear Channel bought them from Edens Broadcasting and started to make the station sound like a respectable CHR. However, this was happening at the time no one wanted to be a CHR. So, Clear Channel decided to go after WQYK, which was where the money was, after owning Q-105 for about two years. The other irony is that these same "brilliant" techniques were tried in Chicago at WYTZ when it was in its battle with B-96. They were a miserable failure!

What about the infamous Top 40 rivalry in NYC in the 80s between Z-100 and Power 95? I also remember the DJs at Hot 105 Miami bashing both Power 96 and Y-100. In the early part of this decade over in Toronto Kiss 92 used to bash Energy Radio, when those stations did CHR.

I seem to recall the Z-100 and Power 95 battle as being much more civil than the Power Pig/Q-105 rivalry. Hot 105 lost the battle in Miami, like most bashers, and neither Kiss 92 nor Energy is still on the air in Toronto. So, the strategy obviously didn't work.

And what of Houston's own 80s battle between 93Q and Power 104?

I always remember the 93Q and Power 104 battle being relatively tame. However, I very seldomly listened to either. The really nasty Texas CHR battle occurred a few hours north on I-45 between Y-95 and KEGL in Dallas/Ft. Worth. After getting off to a slow start, Y-95 hit its stride in about 1988 and really had KEGL on the ropes. Once it became clear that CHR was seeing a down cycle, Y-95 wanted to deal the knockout blow to its heritage competitor and began a bashing campaign KEGL responded with a "Stop Y-ning" campaign. The bashing backfired on Y-95, which switched to a dance CHR format as "Power 95" that lasted six months before going to oldies. KEGL bashed Y-95 left and right for abandoning its listeners to go after the urban stations. Between the "Stop Y-ning" campaign and the other bashing, KEGL dropped in the ratings even after its only competitor left the air. Within two years, it, too, was no longer doing CHR.

By the way, Power 104 also saw its ratings drop after 93Q, by then its only competitor as Energy 96.5 became Mix 96.5 a year or two earlier, made the disastrous switch to 92.9 Easy Country. Stevens and Pruitt on KLOL had a field day with that!

 

[ChuckTiller]

The "....the disastrous switch to 92.9 Easy Country." was not as disastrous as one might think. It was done with calculation to draw listeners from both KIKK and KILT, before launching their successful 93Q Country. By establishing a country audience, it made the flip easier. Those listeners who were sampling the Easy format had been using the station as a "punch" alternative to the country giants. KKBQ also knew that country music audiences of the time were extremely loyal to country music. The hook was sunk, all they had to do was reel them in with a new station which caused excitement.

Now, to the dirty tricks. The first thing KKBQ did was to secure the phone number 713-390-5000. KILT had 713-390-5100. The "100" stood for FM-100. KILT-AM had 713-390-KILT. KKBQ figured they could successfully take some of KILT's listeners who misdialed and got KKBQ instead. It also happened in reverse. KILT got a lot of 93Q Country calls.

Although not official and certainly not known to the listening public or the program director, those of us on the air at KILT made sure that backfired on 93Q. We knew when 93Q was having a contest because suddenly our phones would 'light up.' I would answer the phone, "are you ready to win?" The excited person on the other end of the line would answer with a resounding "yes, yes, yes!" I would say, "what's your favorite radio station?" The answer was a very excited "93Q COUNTRY!!!!!! Did I win? Did I win? Did I win?" I said, "Yes you did! Do you know where we are located?" "Oh yes I do." exclaimed the excited caller. I continued the ruse with, "get down here tomorrow morning and get your prize." It happened a lot. That is until, KILT moved the KILT-AM number to the FM. By the way, not all of us did it. However, most of us including me, did it.

Again, it was behind the scenes, therefore nobody ever knew. I'm sure the poor receptionist at 93Q and their promotions department couldn't understand what was happening when people who claimed to be winners showed up for their prizes, especially if it involved big money.

 

[stan]

This is something that has been done for years, in other markets at least, and probably in Houston as well. I suspect that several on this board weren't around in the 1960s / 1970s, but it went on then, and with great vigor.