Omnia one.fm thoughts

[gcon999]

Im looking in to upgrading my aging optimod 8000. What do you guys know about the one.fm?

 

[fm-engineer]

Im looking in to upgrading my aging optimod 8000. What do you guys know about the one.fm?

That would be a great upgrade! The one FM is a nice box for the money. Omnia has some additional presets by C. Gould and others that really expand the "One's" capabilities. I have upgraded several clients in small markets running optimod 8100's to the Omnia One. They seem to be happy.

The Omnia One AM is a good box for talk AM, but I would not recommend it for music or partial music formats. The bass is very difficult to control, and some source material will distort the audio no matter what preset or settings you are using.

 

[audiophile.]

I don't recall it distorting when set to sane levels of processing, but all of the HOT AM presets sounded distorted to me.

 

[gcon999]

What about the dspx-fm or the vorsis vp8?

 

[gtomas]

Consider this - you will only get opinions of people who are present on this board, have tried or are using a certain product and they will give you their subjective opinion based on a preferences that might or might not align with yours.

So, I can think of a number of scenarios:

• much more forum members are using product A, than there are product A users on the market - the feedback is not representative of the market; you however get a false impression just by the number of certain product supporters on the forum that there is a certain popularity and that it reflects the market
• product A users are much more willing to express their opinion than other product users - some may be overly enthusiastic, others self-censored, for very various reasons; some may be a loud cheerleaders of the product they are using, but in fact don't know much about processors and have no experience with other products; and vice versa
• you have no clue how the opinion of the poster corresponds to your preferences in sound and processing - you might like the same sound, loudness and style or processing, you may have totally opposite preferences or you may be somewhere in between; but, unless you've met a poster in person and exchanged opinions on the sound you are both listening to, you actually don't know anything how someone's opinion relates to your own
• someones impression of a product will vary strongly not just by his preferences, but also the complete airchain the processor is used in, the market preferences for sound texture and loudness, as well as the level of competition and coverage the station is operating at; all of which might be (and probably are) totally different than yours

If you multiply the uncertainties of just the above factors, the probability that the comment on a processor will be valid, representative or useful to you is almost none!

As we've said a number of times on this board, the only valid way to be sure you are buying the best processor for your station, your market and your preferences is to get the demos of all the products that are within your budget, put them on-air (preferably head-to-head) and listen. This is the only way to make an informed decision and buy the best product for your station, which should be your goal.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[surfdude]

Wow Goran! This is a discussion forum. You're trying to take the fun out of it.
Who elected you hall monitor? Of course, everything's opinion. Even network news is biased.

(opinion of 30 year PD and audio fan)

Was surprised how good the the OmniaOne sounded when we put it in. Excellent for the price you pay. Infinitely adjustable. Blew away our refurbed 8100/XT. Good customer support. Mr. Gould will help get you where you need to be.

I've gotten very good results from (nearly) all the Orban products, too. (2200 was a bit shaky)

Orban or Omnia? You really can't go wrong with either one.

 

[gtomas]

I'm all for discussion, if you haven't noticed thus far And to add to the discussion, I'd take that 8100/XT2 over Omnia.One (if it's for an FM station) anyday. It's not that Omnia.One is not a good processor, but my personal preferences are such that if it was my station, I would go with the old, yellow boxes in this case.

What I was saying is what I (or you) would pick, shouldn't be a part of the potential buyer's decision process. That's not how you decide to spend thousands of dollars or euros of your station's money. We can discuss preferences, opinions and experiences with various processors all day, but a processor buyer should not base purchase decisions on forum discussions and subjective opinions (for the reasons above). Rather, on the hands-on real-life tests he performs on his own.

Then come back to discuss, and elaborate on his choice


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[gcon999]

I prefer to hear others personal experiences I will agree that the 8100 is still one of the best sounding boxes. I might even look at the ariane sequal

 

[WNTIRadio]

Go with the Airane before anything... no I haven't been paid to post this, it's just the best AGC out there and will make anything downstream work less to get the same sound you want. As for the 8100, they're great boxes, you can do a lot with them. BUT, having said that, for the same loudness level, you will have a lot less artifacts and distortion with a new box from either of the O's or BW or Vorsis. It's held up 30 years, but having one on the bench and comparing it to the O-5ex or the O-8400 it's showing it's age in a competitive situation.

 

[satech]

As for the 8100, they're great boxes, you can do a lot with them. BUT, having said that, for the same loudness level, you will have a lot less artifacts and distortion with a new box from either of the O's or BW or Vorsis. It's held up 30 years, but having one on the bench and comparing it to the O-5ex or the O-8400 it's showing it's age in a competitive situation.

But on a more ethical level... do we need to get any louder than the benchmark of what the 8100XT2 can deliver? We all know that quality of programming makes more of a difference in ratings and revenue than that last dB or two of loudness.

 

[gtomas]

BUT, having said that, for the same loudness level, you will have a lot less artifacts and distortion with a new box from either of the O's or BW or Vorsis. It's held up 30 years, but having one on the bench and comparing it to the O-5ex or the O-8400 it's showing it's age in a competitive situation.

8100 for sure, but 8100/XT2 as well can't compete with today's flagship boxes in the loudness competition. With lower-end boxes, it's a slightly different story...

Loudness aside, there's also the sound and the character of processing, the way a processor "handles" audio that plays a significant role in what appeals to us with certain processors, or maybe just doesn't annoy us. Personally, I'd take a more full, cleaner and overall "nicer" sound over one that's just loud (often flat as well), distorted and lacks depth.

To be clear, I'm not recommending to people to purchase 8100/XT2 for their station. Just as I don't recommend people to run Server operating system, although I am. A more sensible, rational option much more suitable for non-experts would be a new, digital box with support, than an old, ageing processor, prone to misalignment and failure.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[WNTIRadio]

But on a more ethical level... do we need to get any louder than the benchmark of what the 8100XT2 can deliver? We all know that quality of programming makes more of a difference in ratings and revenue than that last dB or two of loudness.

It's not that it's necessiarly louder than an 8100XT2, but for the same level of loudness it will be cleaner and more flexible. You're stuck with Bob's idea of a 6 (really 5) band processor and can't do much changes without knowing what you're doing with a soldering iron and how the box was built. Not that Bob's idea is bad at all, but that's also why there are 31 flavors of Baskin Robbins. A newer digital box can be customized to a specific format or market. Plus there's less of an issue with something going wrong out drifting out of tolerance. And a warranty!!

Don't get me wrong, I love the 8100XT2, as much as I love a '65 Mustang. Both are wonderful pieces of vintage engineering. I love analog, but the ease and flexibility of the digital offerings, especially for someone who is not ready to go under the hood and solder and modify.

 

[littlejohn]

It's getting off subject, but the initial Mustang (I had a '66) although the marketing coup of the decade, wasn't particularly renowned for engineering expertise... mostly because it hadn't any. Nice reliable litte car with striking looks, assembled pretty much entirely from Ford part bins. And while it didn't capture the share the Optimod did, it was still successful beyond Ford's wildest dreams.

 

[roth]

I agree with "surfdude" here... During our time together "down south" - when the Omnia One FM was installed, we were both very impressed. It did take quite some time to setup, if I recall correctly. Of course, we made adjustments during Christmas music, which admittedly, wasn't the brightest idea in the world.

At my current operation, we are about to test both an AM and FM unit (on a mono talk station)...and will be testing a Vorsis as well.

 

[fm-engineer]

I agree with "surfdude" here... During our time together "down south" - when the Omnia One FM was installed, we were both very impressed. It did take quite some time to setup, if I recall correctly. Of course, we made adjustments during Christmas music, which admittedly, wasn't the brightest idea in the world.

At my current operation, we are about to test both an AM and FM unit (on a mono talk station)...and will be testing a Vorsis as well.

I just completed a demo of the One AM. I was very impressed when set up for a talk format. I was not impressed when running music, but most AM stations are talk. I have one station that is music 75% of the time. The one has tremendous bass, but it seems to wander out of control on various songs. The bass seemed to distort on every preset I tried. Also, the manual leaves a bit to be desired on a few things. Remember, you need to set the input to L+R if you are using the AES or stereo analog inputs. If not, you won't be getting true mono L+R on the left or right outputs (drive two transmitters) The HF equalization has no explanation on how it works or what it means. From my ears, somewhere around 10-12 db gain sounded like the NRSC curve. The adjustment goes from 0-18 dB or so. So is 10 dB boost mean @ 10kHz, or what, I don't know. But set at the factory preset level of 0 = a very dull sounding preset. One of the Omnia techs recommended a 10-12 dB boost to achieve the NRSC and I agree. I have decided to put the One AM on two talk stations, but we are sticking with an Optimod for the music station. Good luck with the demo!

 

[dutchpirateradio]

@fm-engineer...

Offcourse a real Fm engineer will custom tweak a factory preset if this preset isn't good enough in his ears...
And that, i state, is the biggest reason of complaints about all tweakable FM processor out there!
If you setup a processor using the standard factory presets, you'll NEVER get exactly what you want! its ALWAYS a compromise!

I've had all of them on my little desk... Omnia one, 3FMT, 5EX(i) 6EX(i) HOT / VERIS / JUNIOR, Unity 2000i, Orban 8100 / 8100a/XT2, 2200, 8200, 5300, 8300, 8400, 8500, BW DSP-mini, DSP-miniSE, DSP-X, DSP-Xtra, DSP-Xtreme, Vorsis VP7, Vorsis AP2000, Aphex 2020, Aphex airchain, Inovonics 250, TC dBmax, etc... etc... etc.... and ALL of them need custom tweaking!!! and ALL of them have their own topologie and each and everyone of them sound different tuned perfectly in the sweet spot...

If you don't know what you are doing... don't go there!!! Don't start complaining about distortion if the main clipper is turned up to +2,0dB and the release times are max!!!!
It's not to blame on the processor! it's to blame on the one who has set it up!!! NO DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT! ???

 

[fm-engineer]

You're right, us "real engineers" have so much time to tweak, tweak, and tweak some more while we are taking care of 17 stations in one form or another. I started with several music presets, tweaked for a day or two, but I was never satisfied with the results. Another set of ears may have liked what they were hearing, but this company decided to pay me to make those kinds of recommendations and evaluations. If they are not happy, then they will send me down the road. In this particular case, the programming department and management agreed with my ears. On the other hand, I did choose the Omnia for two other talk stations, so I'm not exactly bashing the product, but giving it "praise" in another setting. I'm just giving my "opinion" which I should be able to do amongst other professionals. Some of us "real engineers" on this board may remember a time when you could spend much more time at the Tx shack fine tuning or proofing the audio chains. In this day and economy, that is seldom found unless you are engineering a major market flagship.

@fm-engineer...

Offcourse a real Fm engineer will custom tweak a factory preset if this preset isn't good enough in his ears...
And that, i state, is the biggest reason of complaints about all tweakable FM processor out there!
If you setup a processor using the standard factory presets, you'll NEVER get exactly what you want! its ALWAYS a compromise!

I've had all of them on my little desk... Omnia one, 3FMT, 5EX(i) 6EX(i) HOT / VERIS / JUNIOR, Unity 2000i, Orban 8100 / 8100a/XT2, 2200, 8200, 5300, 8300, 8400, 8500, BW DSP-mini, DSP-miniSE, DSP-X, DSP-Xtra, DSP-Xtreme, Vorsis VP7, Vorsis AP2000, Aphex 2020, Aphex airchain, Inovonics 250, TC dBmax, etc... etc... etc.... and ALL of them need custom tweaking!!! and ALL of them have their own topologie and each and everyone of them sound different tuned perfectly in the sweet spot...

If you don't know what you are doing... don't go there!!! Don't start complaining about distortion if the main clipper is turned up to +2,0dB and the release times are max!!!!
It's not to blame on the processor! it's to blame on the one who has set it up!!! NO DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT! ???

 

[cgould]

If the bass sounds like it's "getting out of control", it may be due to some non linearity in the transmitter or antenna system (if not both) at really low frequencies. This seems to happen a lot. Try a different high pass filter setting, and this may clear it up for you.

IOW, if it is 30 Hz by default, try a much higher cutoff frequency.

-C

 

[gcon999]

Wow Goran! This is a discussion forum. You're trying to take the fun out of it.
Who elected you hall monitor? Of course, everything's opinion. Even network news is biased.

(opinion of 30 year PD and audio fan)

Was surprised how good the the OmniaOne sounded when we put it in. Excellent for the price you pay. Infinitely adjustable. Blew away our refurbed 8100/XT. Good customer support. Mr. Gould will help get you where you need to be.

I've gotten very good results from (nearly) all the Orban products, too. (2200 was a bit shaky)

Orban or Omnia? You really can't go wrong with either one.

What do you mean by the 2200 was a bit shaky?. Im looking at that too

 

[WNTIRadio]

If you're going to go with a 2200, you may as well stick with an analog 8100a. All that box is is a digital version of the 8100a, and not a very good one at that. You'll find some weird "fuzz" on the analyzer when you clip the HF in that box that you won't find on the 8100. If you can find a used 8200 v3, you'll get decent results and it does a better job of masking the "fuzz" of clipping. That was fixed in all later Orban boxes that I've come across, not sure the reason for it, I just know I can both hear and see it. Try running a 10k tone through the 2200 or the 8200 and listen to it, what comes out isn't very close to hat goes in. The 8100 on the other hand, doesn't have that distortion.

See if you can demo one of the BW boxes, the DSPx or even the mini. Again, with your budget, you'll get presets, remote control, warranty and something that won't require maintenance like a 25 year old (or more) 8100. They're still nice processors, if you can give them the TLC they need or send it back to Bill Sacks to get it up to spec. But then you're looking at $3k plus, which puts you in the ballpark of the One, BW, or Vorsis.