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Omnia Processing Question

R

RadioActive05

Guest
Hello. Didn't know an Engineering board like this existed.. Cool.

I just replaced an old analog air chain at a small NCE with an Omnia 3FM Turbo. First off, Wow! This box is nice! We sound very competitive and the source to source consistency is sooo much better than our old chain. I'm also very excited about being able to daypart the processing because during the course of the day we go from jazz to big band to alternative rock, being able to daypart these shifts is a huge improvement. Hats off to Omnia for a great box at a price that didn’t cripple our small budget.

With that said.. Less than a year ago we bought a Compellor to help keep the students’ levels in check. I'd still like to use the Compellor in front of the 03Turbo. I've noticed once and a while on voice (Students, PSAs, Ect) there seems to be a little bit of discoloration, sounds like there's not enough headroom. The discoloration on voice only happens when the Omina’s Wide Band AGC is engaged. When I disengage the WB AGC and use the Compellor in lieu of the Omnia’s WB AGC the voices sound more natural. I have the input levels running slightly lower than the operation manual suggests. Currently I have the Compellor in "leveling" mode using moderate drive settings, fast attack/release and the Omnia's Wide Band AGC disabled.. Should I engage Omnia's WB ACG and slow down the attack and release settings and lower the "make up gain" or leave it disabled when using the Compellor?

Is anyone else using an AGC box in front their Omnia3? Just looking for suggestions..

BTW: We are currently using the "Smooth/Open" preset with a small tweak to the limiter sections to add a bit of density. I'm also using very little clipping.. We are using a balanced line between the studio and the processing as the transmitter is in the same building as the studio..

Any suggestions??
 
You might want to touch base with our Customer Support group. They can assist you. (216) 241-3343.

-Frank Foti

> Hello. Didn't know an Engineering board like this existed..
> Cool.
>
> I just replaced an old analog air chain at a small NCE with
> an Omnia 3FM Turbo. First off, Wow! This box is nice! We
> sound very competitive and the source to source consistency
> is sooo much better that our old chain. I'm also very
> excited about being able to daypart the processing because
> during the course of the day we go from jazz to big band to
> alternative rock, being able to daypart these shifts is a
> huge improvement. Hats off to Omnia for a great box at price
> that didn’t cripple our small budget.
>
> With that said.. Less than a year ago we bought a Compellor
> to help keep the students’ levels in check. I'd still like
> to use the Compellor in front of the 03Turbo. I've noticed
> once and a while on voice (Students, PSAs, Ect) there seems
> to be a little bit of discoloration, sounds like there's not
> enough headroom. The discoloration on voice only happens
> when the Omina’s Wide Band AGC is engaged. When I disengage
> the WB AGC and use the Compellor in lieu of the Omnia’s WB
> AGC the voices sound more natural. I have the input levels
> running slightly lower than the operation manual suggests.
> Currently I have the Compellor in "leveling" mode using
> moderate drive settings, fast attack/release and the Omnia's
> Wide Band AGC disabled.. Should I engage Omnia's WB ACG and
> slow down the attack and release settings and lower the
> "make up gain" or leave it disabled when using the
> Compellor?
>
> Is anyone else using an AGC box in front their Omnia3? Just
> looking for suggestions..
>
> BTW: We are currently using the "Smooth/Open" preset with a
> small tweak to the limiter sections to add a bit of density.
> I'm also using very little clipping.. We are using a
> balanced line between the studio and the processing as the
> transmitter is in the same building as the studio..
>
> Any suggestions??
>
 
> Hello. Didn't know an Engineering board like this existed..
> Cool...

Welcome.

> Is anyone else using an AGC box in front their Omnia3? Just
> looking for suggestions..

Having been involved with several NCE FM stations in my local area, and a few small AM stations too, I can't think of a single one of them using an "All-In-One Box" like the Omnias or the Optimods without some kind of AGC in front of them. Aphex Compellors are popular. So are the Arianes. I also know that some of the stations use additional protection in front of the AGC, which sits in front of the Meat and potatoes of the airchain. When you are working with students and/or inexperienced board ops from off the street (Or even just raw automation) it is good to have multiple layers of protection.

Be sure to take Mr. Foti up on his offer for Customer service. I think you will find it to be most helpful.

As far as using the internal AGC in the omnia or not, you really have to listen objectively and decide which you think sounds better. I've seen stations use both external and internal, while other stations use only the external.

Good Luck!
 
Certainly call the Omnia folks for advice.

My preference is to disable the internal AGC if you are using an outboard device like a compellor. The two AGC's tend to "fight" each other, plus they essentially do the same thing.

With the new Omnia's/Optimod's/DSP-X's, they've eliminated the need for external AGC's unless you like them. Back in the day, it was common practice to use an outboard levelor to keep your processing in it's "sweet spot".

So my preference is:

External AGC=Disable processor's AGC.
No External AGC=Enable processor's AGC.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Whether or not you want to keep the external AGC is a subjective choice, but one thing I have noticed is that it is best to keep the input levels (as shown on the display) fairly low. We are all used to something like an 8100 where we shoot for for the best sound for our format by setting the box for a certain level of overall compression. To do this, we simply turn the input up.
Not a good idea on the Omnia since the input level reads the audio level before the A/D conversion. Get the input levels too high & I can hear clipping on fast peaks like voices. Believe a good area to shoot for is -15 or lower on the display, if I remember right.

The box has plenty of flexibility to restore more compression (or not) inside the digital processing realm.
 
We are using ours straight...with no pre-processing. It sounds loud, punchy, and clean. Board>Omnia>STL>Exciter>Final>Antenna...

I'm using a modified setting, but it does sound good!


> Hello. Didn't know an Engineering board like this existed..
> Cool.
>
> I just replaced an old analog air chain at a small NCE with
> an Omnia 3FM Turbo. First off, Wow! This box is nice! We
> sound very competitive and the source to source consistency
> is sooo much better than our old chain. I'm also very
> excited about being able to daypart the processing because
> during the course of the day we go from jazz to big band to
> alternative rock, being able to daypart these shifts is a
> huge improvement. Hats off to Omnia for a great box at a
> price that didn’t cripple our small budget.
>
> With that said.. Less than a year ago we bought a Compellor
> to help keep the students’ levels in check. I'd still like
> to use the Compellor in front of the 03Turbo. I've noticed
> once and a while on voice (Students, PSAs, Ect) there seems
> to be a little bit of discoloration, sounds like there's not
> enough headroom. The discoloration on voice only happens
> when the Omina’s Wide Band AGC is engaged. When I disengage
> the WB AGC and use the Compellor in lieu of the Omnia’s WB
> AGC the voices sound more natural. I have the input levels
> running slightly lower than the operation manual suggests.
> Currently I have the Compellor in "leveling" mode using
> moderate drive settings, fast attack/release and the Omnia's
> Wide Band AGC disabled.. Should I engage Omnia's WB ACG and
> slow down the attack and release settings and lower the
> "make up gain" or leave it disabled when using the
> Compellor?
>
> Is anyone else using an AGC box in front their Omnia3? Just
> looking for suggestions..
>
> BTW: We are currently using the "Smooth/Open" preset with a
> small tweak to the limiter sections to add a bit of density.
> I'm also using very little clipping.. We are using a
> balanced line between the studio and the processing as the
> transmitter is in the same building as the studio..
>
> Any suggestions??
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Zach Morton
Chief Engineer
Legend Communications
Gillette, Wyoming</P>
 
> Is anyone else using an AGC box in front their Omnia3? Just
> looking for suggestions..
>

Yes. I'm using an analog Ariane and have defeated the wideband AGC in the Omnia 3T. I'm not really keen on any wideband AGC's in any of the boxes, the aftermarket add-ons (Ariane, Compellor) feed audio downstream in a more predictable way and build a better audio "foundation". My preference is the Ariane over the Compellor because it does the best possible job, there isn't a better AGC. The Compellor is a poor man's choice, but still better than the built-ins.

If you can find on Ebay, the DBX-168-A is a great AGC who's compressor section was designed by Orban when he was with Harmon/JBL. They are very hard to find but cream a Compellor. There is only one setting; slowest density with about 9dB of Gain Reduction @ 0db from the console. Leave the EQ's flat and the de-esser off. The GAIN HOLD is a traditional gate you would expect in a broadcast processor, not a muting gate like you find in other studio compressors.

http://www.lexon.net/images/okasion_images/168.jpg
 
> Whether or not you want to keep the external AGC is a
> subjective choice, but one thing I have noticed is that it
> is best to keep the input levels (as shown on the display)
> fairly low. We are all used to something like an 8100
> where we shoot for for the best sound for our format by
> setting the box for a certain level of overall compression.
> To do this, we simply turn the input up.
> Not a good idea on the Omnia since the input level reads the
> audio level before the A/D conversion. Get the input levels
> too high & I can hear clipping on fast peaks like voices.
> Believe a good area to shoot for is -15 or lower on the
> display, if I remember right.
>
> The box has plenty of flexibility to restore more
> compression (or not) inside the digital processing realm.
>

We moved up to the Turbo upgrade last year and like the multi band version but still struggle to get the "sweet" spot right at the front end. I've used a
compellor with the non-turbo version and had great success leveling the audio and keeping it right where we needed it. With the new box we're not using the compellor but the previous post about input levels is right on target. Keep them at or below -15 on the input to avoid an overactive AGC. We have found that we need to keep the drive at 2 on the wideband AGC to avoid the "squashing" sensation you get when a hot vocal goes through and the rest of the music is restrained. Omnia repeatedly says to keep the drive up high enough to stay in the sweet spot but my ONE complaint with this box is that the wideband AGC is very quick to squash audio or react too much to a hot vocal mix. In that regard the compellor does a much better job in my opinion. We have switch back to the compellor and switch off the wideband AGC to see if we like that combo better.
 
Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I think I've got the sound I was looking for.

I'm using the Compellor lightly, strictly to compensate for board-op errors and to tame the levels coming in from our weekly football broadcast. I've backed off the input levels on the Omnia and dialed back the WB AGC drive, and adjusted the attack and release settings as not to conflict with the Compellor. These minor adjustments really make voice sound natural. We've just upgraded the studio to RE-20's and a Symetrix 528E, our talk segments really sound good.

For anyone who may have a student run NCE here's how I have our Omnia 03T set up for day parts..

Presets Modified with the AGC tweaks mentioned above.

Overnights - Using the "Humor Me" preset for overnight automation from our NexGen101 system. Format is Variety Hits (Which we have been doing since 1995 before JACK, BOB, SAM, MIKE, ect)

Morning Jazz - Jazz Setting with a slight mod in the limiters.

Big Band (Midday) - Smooth/Open Preset

Rock (Afternoon/Night) - Rock Preset with mods in limiters and clipper.

Sports - Talk preset with slight bass enhancement.

On a final note, I drove around our fringe area and our sound has never been better! We've received several compliments on our "new" sound. Thanks to the folks at Omnia for a great product.

Probably a new topic but here are a few songs I use to help adjust/evaluate the processing.

Steely Dan - Aja (lots of dynamic range)
Phil Collins - In The Air Tonight (tight drums, soft passages)
U2 - Vertigo (heavily clipped)
John Fogerty - Centerfield (clapping in the intro helps evaluate attack/release)
A good Gershwin Piece - (test for noise and gating)
Stardust - Music Sounds Better (check for excessive pumping)

Thanks again for all the great suggestions.
 
> Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I think I've got
> the sound I was looking for.
>
> I'm using the Compellor lightly, strictly to compensate for
> board-op errors and to tame the levels coming in from our
> weekly football broadcast. I've backed off the input levels
> on the Omnia and dialed back the WB AGC drive, and adjusted
> the attack and release settings as not to conflict with the
> Compellor. These minor adjustments really make voice sound
> natural. We've just upgraded the studio to RE-20's and a
> Symetrix 528E, our talk segments really sound good.
>
> For anyone who may have a student run NCE here's how I have
> our Omnia 03T set up for day parts..
>
> Presets Modified with the AGC tweaks mentioned above.
>
> Overnights - Using the "Humor Me" preset for overnight
> automation from our NexGen101 system. Format is Variety Hits
> (Which we have been doing since 1995 before JACK, BOB, SAM,
> MIKE, ect)
>
> Morning Jazz - Jazz Setting with a slight mod in the
> limiters.
>
> Big Band (Midday) - Smooth/Open Preset
>
> Rock (Afternoon/Night) - Rock Preset with mods in limiters
> and clipper.
>
> Sports - Talk preset with slight bass enhancement.
>
> On a final note, I drove around our fringe area and our
> sound has never been better! We've received several
> compliments on our "new" sound. Thanks to the folks at Omnia
> for a great product.
>
> Probably a new topic but here are a few songs I use to help
> adjust/evaluate the processing.
>
> Steely Dan - Aja (lots of dynamic range)
> Phil Collins - In The Air Tonight (tight drums, soft
> passages)
> U2 - Vertigo (heavily clipped)
> John Fogerty - Centerfield (clapping in the intro helps
> evaluate attack/release)
> A good Gershwin Piece - (test for noise and gating)
> Stardust - Music Sounds Better (check for excessive pumping)
>
>
> Thanks again for all the great suggestions.
>
You are actually USING the "humor me" preset??
I thought Mr. Frank put that there as a joke.(Or for New York City stations)
Didn't think anyone would actually use it, at least unmodified!
 
Didn't think anyone would actually use it, at least unmodified!

It is modified, the clipper is scaled back considerably.
 
> You are actually USING the "humor me" preset??
> I thought Mr. Frank put that there as a joke.(Or for New
> York City stations)
> Didn't think anyone would actually use it, at least
> unmodified!

Yeah, just wanted to comment on that too... That preset is a walking headache!

A while back I got a call from a customer who we advised to upgrade to Turbo firmware. He called me and complained that the sound is now "ugly" and something's wrong. I asked him what preset is he using and he says (drum roll) HumorMe. Well, that explains it... ;-) One of the most easily solved processing problems I had :))

But what's best, you can get very close to that preset in terms of loudness, while still keeping the audio clean. But I guess if doesn't sound distorted, than it's not loud enough! ;-)


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
> Stardust - Music Sounds Better (check for excessive pumping)

That song (however I may like it) pumps by itself!! To check for processing induced pumping, you need something that's not recorded/mastered with pumping. Something like Fugees - Killing Me Softly (however I hate that song). That one has the low end that will _really_ exercise the low parts of your processing and you can listen for pumping on vocals...


Regards,
Goran Tomas
 
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