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Once great indies that went downhill

Unfortunately, the answer to the implied question in the thread title seems to be that ever last one of the great indies is pretty much gone. But they've taken several different routes in their disappearance.

Generally, the most successful of the legacy indies today are the ones that became Fox affiliates -- ie, stations like KTVU/2 in San Francisco/Oakland, KCPQ/13 in Seattle/Tacoma, or KPTV/12 in Portland (although the latter didn't become a Fox affiliate until it was joined in a duopoly with original Fox affiliate KPDX/49). KTVU and KPTV were hugely successful independent stations that have become hugely successful Fox affiliates -- but, really, they look more like the competing ABC, CBS, and NBC stations than they do like indies today. In a related category are the independents that ended up affiliated with one of the legacy "big 3" networks in the 1995 affiliate shuffles -- KPHO/5 & KNXV/15 in Phoenix, KTVT/11 in Dallas/Fort Worth, WGPR/62 in Detroit, KDNL/30 St. Louis, and a few others, fall in this category. Some (KPHO & KTVT) are doing well as network outlets, while others are failures as network stations (WGPR and KDNL).

Then there are the stations that were successful independents that are today affiliated with the CW or MNTV. The most prominent of these are the Tribune stations -- WGN/9 Chicago, KTLA/5 LA, and WPIX/11 in NYC would be the most prominent examples. Other stations in this category include the station that I grew up watching in Tacoma -- KSTW/11 Seattle/Tacoma, which has gone from "entertaining the whole northwest" as a regional superstation to being a very generic "CW11" today. The most charitable thing that can be said about these stations is that they are pale shadows of what they once were. The situation for the MNTV stations is even worse -- someone has already pointed out the current state of WUAB/43 in Cleveland/Lorain, which was once one of the top independent stations in the country.

Others are completely gone, having been converted to Spanish language programming, sold to Ion, or otherwise leaving the mainstream -- and their legacies -- behind. Dallas/Fort Worth's KXTX/39 falls in this category, having ended 30 years as DFW's second independent station (always ranking behind KTVT/11, which is now running CBS) when it became a Telemundo outlet.

Ironically enough, the few decent independent stations that do exist today are mostly stations that didn't become "mainstream" stations until fairly recently: KDOC/56 LA, WCIU/26 Chicago, and KFWD/52 here in DFW. But, really, most of the "mainstream" independent stations that are still around (aside from the ones that I just listed, and maybe a couple of others) have ended up being dumping grounds for junk programming in duopolies.

Aside from groups like this, I wonder how many folks out there remember these stations fondly and miss them in their absence?
 
KPHO went downhill when Wallace & Ladmo left the air in 1989 :'( BTW CBS going to KPHO was kind of a comeback-they were a CBS affiliate until 1955 when they moved to KOOL-TV (KSAZ). KNXV went on the air as an ON-TV affiliate at night and a cheesy indy station offering "happy news" and the "Bluebird of Happiness" helicopter. Then when ON-TV went off the air KNXV gave us late night delights such as "Elvira" and "Edmus Scarey"- who would be later charged for child molestation.
 
TexasTom said:
Unfortunately, the answer to the implied question in the thread title seems to be that ever last one of the great indies is pretty much gone. But they've taken several different routes in their disappearance.

Generally, the most successful of the legacy indies today are the ones that became Fox affiliates -- ie, stations like KTVU/2 in San Francisco/Oakland, KCPQ/13 in Seattle/Tacoma, or KPTV/12 in Portland (although the latter didn't become a Fox affiliate until it was joined in a duopoly with original Fox affiliate KPDX/49). KTVU and KPTV were hugely successful independent stations that have become hugely successful Fox affiliates -- but, really, they look more like the competing ABC, CBS, and NBC stations than they do like indies today. In a related category are the independents that ended up affiliated with one of the legacy "big 3" networks in the 1995 affiliate shuffles -- KPHO/5 & KNXV/15 in Phoenix, KTVT/11 in Dallas/Fort Worth, WGPR/62 in Detroit, KDNL/30 St. Louis, and a few others, fall in this category. Some (KPHO & KTVT) are doing well as network outlets, while others are failures as network stations (WGPR and KDNL).

Then there are the stations that were successful independents that are today affiliated with the CW or MNTV. The most prominent of these are the Tribune stations -- WGN/9 Chicago, KTLA/5 LA, and WPIX/11 in NYC would be the most prominent examples. Other stations in this category include the station that I grew up watching in Tacoma -- KSTW/11 Seattle/Tacoma, which has gone from "entertaining the whole northwest" as a regional superstation to being a very generic "CW11" today. The most charitable thing that can be said about these stations is that they are pale shadows of what they once were. The situation for the MNTV stations is even worse -- someone has already pointed out the current state of WUAB/43 in Cleveland/Lorain, which was once one of the top independent stations in the country.

Others are completely gone, having been converted to Spanish language programming, sold to Ion, or otherwise leaving the mainstream -- and their legacies -- behind. Dallas/Fort Worth's KXTX/39 falls in this category, having ended 30 years as DFW's second independent station (always ranking behind KTVT/11, which is now running CBS) when it became a Telemundo outlet.

Ironically enough, the few decent independent stations that do exist today are mostly stations that didn't become "mainstream" stations until fairly recently: KDOC/56 LA, WCIU/26 Chicago, and KFWD/52 here in DFW. But, really, most of the "mainstream" independent stations that are still around (aside from the ones that I just listed, and maybe a couple of others) have ended up being dumping grounds for junk programming in duopolies.

Aside from groups like this, I wonder how many folks out there remember these stations fondly and miss them in their absence?

In addition, Chicago also has two excellent retro outlets as well, WWME/23 (MeTV) and WMEU/48 (MeToo). While visiting Chicago last year, I had a chance to sample WWME. I was not disappointed. It was a blast to watch 23. It's nice to hear that 48 is doing well, also. The MeTV's are great. If only Boston had an outlet like MeTV and MeToo. Even RTN (Retro Television Network) would be great in Boston. Providence is supposed to be getting an RTN outlet on WJAR 10.3 . But I wonder what's taking so long for them to fire up RTN?

I had a chance to check out KDOC/56 while in California last year. It's a great Indy and I love their "Endless Classics" lineup! WCIU/26 has come a long way since their old brokered format. No doubt, Chicago TV has more variety than any other market.... even NYC and LA. Weigel has really found their niche!
 
2 stations come to mind. I grew up in Northern California. Sacramento had TV40 (KTXL) now it's FOX 40. It was a great indie. In San Francisco we had TV44 KBHK. Then they went the UPN route and now they are 44, the CW- KBCW
 
WSNS Channel 44 Chicago was an interesting indie and a creative alternative to WGN-TV back when microwave relay carried the signal to cable outlets in Indiana.
44 had a Spanish Movie of the Week on Saturday evening hosted by Ricardo Montalban. Some of the Spanish language commercials were quite innovative also for the A&P grocery chain and for Cafe Bustello coffee.

Lots of cartoons during the weekday including Joe Oriolo's version of Felix The Cat and classic Rocky and Bullwinkle with less commercials for the latest fad toys and junk cereals putting emphasis on public service announcements asking kids to eat a balanced diet.

When WRGT in Dayton opened up in 1984,it was a welcome alternative since the former WSWO-TV an WKTR-TV went belly up in the early 1970s. Sadly by the end of the decade,much of its chidren's programming would be "pre-empted" by infomercials by slum lord wannabes with the disclaimer "...in order to bring you the following special" diclaiimer at the beginning. That was downright low!...it then joined up with Fox in the 90s as did WXIX before we realized that Rupert Murdoch was out to build an empire based on an animated dysfunctional family and Bill O'Reilly's self-righteouos brand of arch-conservative arrogance.

Remember the 1970s movie "Network"? Practically prophetic as the news media began its fall to tabloidized proportions thanks to Murdoch's greed.
 
M.J. said:
WUAB, Channel 43 in Cleveland quickly comes to mind. Even though I was not alive for the heyday of that station in the 70s and 80s, they were still a strong independent at the beginning of the 90s with Indians baseball, Browns basketball, nightly news at 10, lots of movies, and quite a few cartoons. Of course on weekends they also had "Superhost" Marty Sullivan, a little before my time. After being part of the short-lived PETN (Prime Time Entertainment Network), they affiliated with both UPN and The WB in 1995, went to UPN only in 1997, and the station rapidly went downhill. Today as a MyNetworkTV affiliate "My43" it reportedly airs more infomercials per week than any other station in the Cleveland market, including large blocks on weekends that used to be occupied by cartoons and movies, and they even have been known to air infomercials in prime time. Their newscast isn't what it used to be either; it's now 19 Action News at Ten from hyper-tabloid WOIO, and I have heard that it gets much lower ratings than WJW's 10 PM newscast. WUAB still airs the odd Cleveland Browns game, but it seems to be fewer every season.

19 Action News may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it is more the prototype of a Fox news show than Fox's channel 8. Around the time when Saddam Hussein was executed, where else did you hear the anchor lead off with "Saddam Hussein is riding the highway to hell". You have to give them credit for originality. It is the only local news that doesn't put me to sleep. Compared with Jenny Crimm or (even longer back) Dorothy Fuldheim rambling on about nothing, I will take 19 any time.
 
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