One of Radio's Biggest Troubles... in a nutshell

[jerry367]

David lee Roth, Whoopi Goldberg, Nick Cannon, etc. etc.

These are just glaring examples of a poblem that has undermined this business for ages.

In what other profession do the big decision makers have so little an undertsanding of how to make their own product, that they hire people with NO real knowledge of how to MAKE the product.

This is the same mentality that deems it OK to voicetrack or just slap on some syndie show.

If a great restaurant stuck famous people in the kitchen who "always wanted to work in a restaurant" but had no experience, they'd be out of business pronto. Radio is NO different. It takes a speacial and unique skill to attract and maintain an audience, especially with the growing number of other audio options now available. That skill is hard to come by and even if you do have it (and most don't), it doesn't surface overnight.

 

[davideduardo]

In what other profession do the big decision makers have so little an undertsanding of how to make their own product, that they hire people with NO real knowledge of how to MAKE the product.

In the package goods industry (think Uniilever, P&G, Kimberly-Clark, etc) about half of all new products fail. And that is despite tens of millions spent on product development, research and marketing trials. P&G is considered the palce of genius because they have a better success rate than the average, yet still one of every three introductions fails for them.

The examples you give represent attempts to do something different and new. So they didn't work. Isn't it great that in this economy someone is willing to try and take a chance.

Let's look at another case... some talk station gave a chance to a pretty average DJ who was tired of waiting three or four minutes just to give the time and read a liner. Who knew whether that DJ could do talk, and do it well? Some PD saw something and gave Rush Limbaugh a try. That's radio at its best, not, as you portray it, at its worst.

 

[TheBigA]

David lee Roth, Whoopi Goldberg, Nick Cannon, etc. etc.

These are just glaring examples of a poblem that has undermined this business for ages.

Regarding DLM, he would have been better if he had been allowed to be the character we know him to be, and not a talk show host or Howard Stern replacement. Far lesser rock stars, Dee Snyder and Alice Cooper, have made great careers as radio hosts. Little Steven does a great job too. But they host music shows. DLM's mistake was to attempt to follow Howard Stern.

Regarding Whoopie, she has proven herself to be a great talk host...but on TV. Her pacing and style were just too slow for radio. Lots of dead air. That works for TV. Not on the radio.

The restaurant analogy doesn't work. Cooking and entertaining aren't the same thing. These are all entertainers.

What usually helps is to have experienced staff who can help focus the host and use them at their best. I don't know who produced DLM or Whoopie, but they didn't guide their hosts properly. I believe entertaining is entertaining, regardless of medium. If you know how to entertain a live audience, you should be able to do radio. For Nick Cannon to succeed, he needs a staff who know what they're doing, and understand what he's good at. It's all about the team, not just the host. That's what makes great radio.

 

[jerry367]

Well.... F-me then.

Actually, the restaurant analogy is a good one. Fact is, time and time again, people from other realms or mediums are put on the radio, greatly underestimating the special skill THAT medium requires. TV people are often surprised at how much more demanding radio is than what they're used to (smaller staff, no reliance on a visual, etc.)

The Limbaugh example falls flat. Limbaugh was a professional broadcaster who understood the basics and more. He had spent a decent amount of time inf ront of a mic before he transitioned to talk.

 

[DToTheJ]

TheBigA:

Are you trying to call David Lee Roth "David Lee Moth"? ;D

 

[TheBigA]

Actually, the restaurant analogy is a good one. Fact is, time and time again, people from other realms or mediums are put on the radio, greatly underestimating the special skill THAT medium requires.

And some people are specialists in radio, and they too lack an understanding of that "special skill." I think we can all name a dozen people on the air right now that didn't come from other "realms" who aren't very good either. I think THAT is what's killing radio. Too many people who do the DJ thing and aren't fresh or original. The public is tired of the model. Time for something new.

When a celebrity comes to radio, expectations are high. Especially if you're replacing Howard Stern. I suggest that if Dan Ingram had been thrown in that same chair, and told to do a talk show and not a music show, he too would have failed.

Radio was built on celebrities from other realms. Vaudeville, theater, music, etc. Those are the people who created radio. Radio grows through people with other talents. Especially now, radio needs to open its eyes to other people and other experiences. You've already pre-judged Nick Cannon because of his TV experience. That's not good. If he succeeds or fails, it's not because he came from TV. That's for sure.

 

[Stewy]

Radio is theater of the mind, not the mine of theater. I disagree that your observation is one of radio's biggest problems, to me that problem came in the form of the telecommunications bill that allowed the bean counters from wall street to sink their greedy teeth into what was a healthy and vibrant industry that developed huge amounts of entertainment talent. There are always exceptions but over the years I've noticed people transitioning from radio to other forms of delivery (especially TV) tend to very well but the reverse rarely brings success. JMO.

 

[Chuck Douglas]

Just a thought...and this is a "generalized" thought, but for the most part

Singers have lyrics
Actors have scripts
TV personalities have teleprompters
Comedians write jokes and bits

Radio, especially talk, goes where it goes and not always with a road map. It's not easy to talk to an empty room and sound interesting and interested. Baldwin learned that right out of the gate.

 

[TheBigA]

to me that problem came in the form of the telecommunications bill that allowed the bean counters from wall street to sink their greedy teeth into what was a healthy and vibrant industry.

That may be your opinion, but it's not true. Anyone older that 40 remembers that the industry was being run by bean counters and Wall Street before 96. Heck, NBC was sold in 1988. ABC was sold to Cap Cities before that. Then you had Ted Turner trying to buy CBS with junk bonds. That was in the 80s.

Once again, there are loads of examples of comedians, actors, singers, and all kinds of people from all forms of life coming into radio and having success. Certainly Steve Harvey is a great example of an actor and comedian making a successful transition. Radio has done the DJ thing with pukers for too long. Time to try something else.

 

[Morpheux]

My humble opinion....the cookie cutter formula ruined radio. There was a time where I could tell the difference between radio in Cleveland,Philly,Miami or a New York. Hell,now adays you can even tell much of a difference between two stations in the same city. That combined with the fact that we now have a gazillion of options for music when we want it. You have to give me a compelling reason to tune in. Something like a specialty show.That's only because I grew up on radio. The teens in my family are either listening to their ipod or watching youtube. Radio: "you're screwed".

 

[smedge2006]

Certainly Steve Harvey is a great example of an actor and comedian making a successful transition.

There are those who maintain that Harvey's syndication was cultivated to blunt the impact of Tom Joyner, a radio pro's pro whose show has not only had impact as entertainment but in the civic realm on a par with Limbaugh. Sure makes you wonder when all those Joyner stations flip over to the more apolitical Harvey...

 

[Oldbones]

My humble opinion....the cookie cutter formula ruined radio. There was a time where I could tell the difference between radio in Cleveland,Philly,Miami or a New York. Hell,now adays you can even tell much of a difference between two stations in the same city. That combined with the fact that we now have a gazillion of options for music when we want it.

Please. Formula radio goes back decades. Bill Drake did it in the mid 60s. KHJ sounded like KFRC which sounded like WRKO which sounded like CKLW. Besides, how many people visit so many cities that they know what radio sounds like in them in the first place? If anything, familiarity=comfort zone.

Your last sentence pretty much sums up the battle radio has to fight. Who's to say that if webstreams, mp3 players, etc. had existed in (insert year here) they wouldn't have given radio an equal run for the money.

 

[Oldbones]

My humble opinion....the cookie cutter formula ruined radio. There was a time where I could tell the difference between radio in Cleveland,Philly,Miami or a New York. Hell,now adays you can even tell much of a difference between two stations in the same city. That combined with the fact that we now have a gazillion of options for music when we want it.

Please. Formula radio goes back decades. Bill Drake did it in the mid 60s. KHJ sounded like KFRC which sounded like WRKO which sounded like CKLW. Besides, how many people visit so many cities that they know what radio sounds like in them in the first place? If anything, familiarity=comfort zone.

Your last sentence pretty much sums up the battle radio has to fight. Who's to say that if webstreams, mp3 players, etc. had existed in (insert year here) they wouldn't have given radio an equal run for the money. With an mp3 player you can hear only what you want when you want it, and nothing you don't want to hear...if you have a way that radio can do that clue us in.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Maybe Drake stations sounded alike (maybe) and WABC ,WLS, and KQV sounded alike, but KHJ did not sound like WABC and most cities had personalities deeply associated with the city like Hy Lit in Philly and Roby Yonge in Miami as only two to name.

 

[TheBigA]

Maybe Drake stations sounded alike (maybe) and WABC ,WLS, and KQV sounded alike, but KHJ did not sound like WABC and most cities had personalities deeply associated with the city like Hy Lit in Philly and Roby Yonge in Miami as only two to name.

All that really changed with cable TV. By 1980, most of the localized radio was gone. There were a few stations that hung on a little longer, but not that many. The consultants, the national programmers, and the nationalized formats started to take over radio by the 80s. And the music also became nationalized. The small local record labels that once existed in the 50s and 60s either were bought or went out of business. Major labels and the national chart system sought airplay coast to coast. In that way, the major record labels killed local music.

 

[Morpheux]

My humble opinion....the cookie cutter formula ruined radio. There was a time where I could tell the difference between radio in Cleveland,Philly,Miami or a New York. Hell,now adays you can even tell much of a difference between two stations in the same city. That combined with the fact that we now have a gazillion of options for music when we want it.

Please. Formula radio goes back decades. Bill Drake did it in the mid 60s. KHJ sounded like KFRC which sounded like WRKO which sounded like CKLW. Besides, how many people visit so many cities that they know what radio sounds like in them in the first place? If anything, familiarity=comfort zone.

Your last sentence pretty much sums up the battle radio has to fight. Who's to say that if webstreams, mp3 players, etc. had existed in (insert year here) they wouldn't have given radio an equal run for the money.

Of course there already existed a nationalized formula but local radio had not been beaten to a pulp completely. I grew up in the 80's in Cleveland where Michael Stanley was still a hugh act. It didn't get any more local than that. I can only attest to what I heard and I did go on many road trips back in the 80's and 90's through Ohio,PA,NJ,NY and believe me when I crossed each state I noticed the contrast in the station's playlist in spite of some familiarity with the hits but the playlist was no where as tight as it is today.

How does HBO or Showtime compete with on demand movies? They have mostly geared towards first run shows found only on their network. They are still known for movies but they are retaining the audience that would have left if they only show movies. Radio can still compete if they provide some local content. This is still true with talk radio and it can be with music stations.It still is a novelty to be heard on the air in your local city/region.Where your local scene and following will tune in specifically for that. That an mp3 player could never compete with.

 

[TheBigA]

I noticed the contrast in the station's playlist in spite of some familiarity with the hits but the playlist was no where as tight as it is today.

That's because the music has become more fragmented, and the public is way less forgiving about music.

It still is a novelty to be heard on the air in your local city/region.Where your local scene and following will tune in specifically for that. That an mp3 player could never compete with.

Novelty can only take you so far. Ultimately it's about being an entertainer. If you have a variety of talents in your arsenal, you have the potential of being more entertaining than someone who just gives time and weather every ten minutes.

 

[Morpheux]

I noticed the contrast in the station's playlist in spite of some familiarity with the hits but the playlist was no where as tight as it is today.

That's because the music has become more fragmented, and the public is way less forgiving about music.

It still is a novelty to be heard on the air in your local city/region.Where your local scene and following will tune in specifically for that. That an mp3 player could never compete with.

Novelty can only take you so far. Ultimately it's about being an entertainer. If you have a variety of talents in your arsenal, you have the potential of being more entertaining than someone who just gives time and weather every ten minutes.

Seems like you're under the impression that local talent is only good for that.This is the approach radio has taken and the results speak volumes. I say,onward with the new technology.......radio continue to bite dust

 

[TheBigA]

Seems like you're under the impression that local talent is only good for that.

Nope...read all of my comments in this thread. You don't have to be local to entertain.

 

[Morpheux]

Seems like you're under the impression that local talent is only good for that.

Nope...read all of my comments in this thread. You don't have to be local to entertain.

I'm in agreement with you on that. But the most succesful stations in today's radio are those who have retained their local identity.