• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

One of the best CHR years

Personally, I find this to be one of my favorite years (2006) for the new CHR music out there. There are so many songs out now that I love.

Last favorite year for me was 2003 (although I like this year better)
 
I loved the first half of 2005. If that continued through the second part that would be my favorite CHR year of the decade.

This year had a slow winter, fair to good spring, great summer, ok fall, and looking at new tracks a good winter.
 
1997 1998 1999 2000 2001

after that CHR went down the crapper again

To proove my point, look at how the format started to resurface in the late 90s with a lot of the actual "pop" (not hip hop) sparking a new demand. After almost 10 years of a bigtime hiatus in many markets (including my area which went from 1994-1998 without any CHR at all) CHR became popular again.

CHR was cool and a thing of its own back then. Check some older ratings books from that period. WIFC in Wausau had almost a 20 share, and WZEE Madison, WI (still #1 in its market) always had numbers above a 10.0 instead of being in the 8s and 9s.

Now days CHR is nothing but Rhythmic CHR and Urban with some Alternative tracks tossed in. People tend to bash it but that poisoning pop music is the reason a lot of today's CHR stations are around today.

I consider 2006 one of the worse years for CHR. The music is simply junk. I miss 2001 and before.

If I had to pick a good year post 2001:

Winter 2002-Early 2003 (Good Charlotte - Lifestyles Of The Rich & Famous, Simple Plan - I'd Do Anything, Lasgo - Something, Telepopmusik - Breathe, T.A.T.U. - All The Things She Said, JC Chasez - Blowin Me Up (With Her Love), DF Dub - Country Girl, Kelly Rowland - Stole, Jay-Z/Beyonce - 03' Bonnie & Clyde, etc showed some temporary new life for CHR)

Spring-Summer 2004
 
Jeremy, what are you talking about???
Post 2001 is when Justin Timberlake (pure Pop) started to sound GOOD
Christina Aguilera sounds much better now then when she first came out.
post 2001 is when Kelly Clarkson came on the scene
The Pussycat Dolls? Gwen Stefani? Beyonce? Rhianna?
Nickleback aren't alternative, and they're extremely Pop/Rock. They're similar to the Journeys or Survivors of the 80s. And it doesn't get more Bryan Adams/mainstream Rock then the current Hinder song. Or the Three Doors Down hits.
You still have pure Pop like Jojo. Or what about Brooke Hogan?
You've got crossover Rhythmic/Pop like Fergie and The Black Eyed Peas (even Hot ACs play them)
You've got some extremely Poppish Hip Hop like Bow Wow
You've got your Alanis Morisette type of crossover Rock from Evanescence
Mario Vazquez is pure Pop
Akon is crossover R&B. Just like you had Bobbie Brown in the late 80s, or Boyz II Men in the early 90s
Danity Kane? Crossover Rhythmic music. It's more Pop then it is R&B
Ciara? Crossover Rhythmic music.
Chris Brown? An Usher wanna-be, and almost as talented as Usher. Chris is a lot like the Boys "Dial My Heart" in the late 80s, or Tevin Campbell in the early 90s
You've got Rock bands like Blue October which sound exactly like Sister Hazel and the Blues Traveler's big hits.
Puff Daddy had a huge CHR hit in 97, and he's still releasing good Hip Hop/Pop records.
You've got the Fray and John Mayer to cover the Dave Mathews Band type fans.
You've got Panic At The Disco to take care of the Third Eye Blind type fans.

Just b/c a couple of CHRs in Wisconsin aren't as strong ratings-wise as they used to be doesn't mean anything. If anything, major market CHRs are VERY strong right now. Z-100, KIIS-FM, Hot 99.5 washington, Kiss 108 Boston, Kiss FM Dallas, Channel 933 San Diego.
Hell, 93.3 FLZ Tampa is still going very strong. Back in 97 they had a 10 share, but back then Tampa didn't have a Rhythmic CHR. Nowadays, even though Tampa has 2 Hip Hop stations, and a Spanish station, you still see FLZ scoring nearly a 6 share. It's due in no small feet to the outstanding staff the station has, but also because the music is there.
 
I don't get why people can't seem to understand that hip hop is now the new pop, alternative was never regulur pop
 
Alternative was very close to being regular Pop, especially in the mid 90s.
In 1994 MTV was all over Alternative hits, especially if they performed well on L.A.'S 106.7 K-Rock. Stations like Z-100 New York and 104 KRBE Houston had begun to lean on Modern hits in 93, and by 94 were dominated by Modern Rock hits.
The following year Hot A/C got on the act after research showed that Hot A/C listeners prefered Collective Soul to Michael Bolton. You then saw an onslaught of Modern A/C stations debut all over the country. It also lead to a growing number of CHRs that started to play more and more Modern A/C hits, most notably Kiss 108 Boston and Mix 93.3 Kansas City.

My problem with the time period Jeremy stated as "the best" was 99-2001. Wayyyy too much Boy band crap. You had LFO with the super sappy record that went "New kids on the block had a bunch of hits...", yeah you know the one - "Summer Girls".
You had 98 Degrees, Backstreet Boys, N Sync, Mandy Moore, and just way too much bubblegum Pop in general. All of these acts were supposedly influenced by the early 90s Hip Hop/Doo Wop sound of Boyz II Men, SWV, En Vogue, and Shai. So in essence the boybands were FAKE R&B. I'm so glad by 2001 the charts saw more REAL Rhythmic music charting, just like in the early 90s.

I think the late 80s were great for CHR, the mid to late 90s were great for CHR, and the past couple of years has also been very good.

sfradio is right - Rhythmic is Pop. When you have Rhythmic AC stations debuting all over the country every week, playing songs like "Gold Digger" by Kanye West, then you know this music is now truly part of the Pop culture with BOTH the youth and adults.
 
Ok ok here's my deal on 01/02/03/04/05. 2001 was still way too bubblegum sounding for me to enjoy. (see Now 6)

The first half of 2002 had decent rap but was bloated with Hot AC/Grunge rock that was painful. (Now 9 has good rap, but did not cover the popular grunge rock). The second half of that year was actually very decent (see Now 11). Winter/Spring 2003 was VERY, VERY good, one of the best time in CHR in the so far decade in my opinion. Then the year became to rhythmic for my tastes and by the end of that year there was too many mediocre tracks to keep me listening. I listen to Rhythmic CHR most of this time. Then by Spring 2004 I switched back to regular CHR which was an okay time, "Yeah!" and "Toxic" were annoying but avoiding them and you've got another good time in music. Summer 2004 was also not a bad time. Fall 2004 took a BIG nose dive and I went back and forth from Rhythmic to Hot AC to CHR. By winter it was straight forward Rhythmic since a lot of good rap came out at this time. Then Spring/Summer 2005 was a very good time and then by August (?) some sort of odd let's play nothing but junk started to roll around. I wasn't even listening to the radio a lot during August 2005-December 2005, it was all crap. By late winter everything was good again. Spring wasn't as good as the previous three years but was decent enough, summer made a HUGE climb back up. This fall seemed to be all crap again and looking at the lower top 40 it seems there's enough good tracks to keep me listening.

Overall, the good recent (past 4 years) good CHR times to me where

2nd half of 2002
Winter/Spring 2003
Spring/Summer 2004
Spring/Summer 2005
Summer 2006

The end.
 
Post 2001 is when Justin Timberlake (pure Pop) started to sound GOOD

Pure pop? Guess thats why Urban stations pump him out. And post 2001 is when he started copycating Michael Jackson.

Christina Aguilera sounds much better now then when she first came out.

Her recent album was dull as dirt outside of Ain't No Other Man.




The Pussycat Dolls? Gwen Stefani? Beyonce? Rhianna?

Take Beyonce and send her to the Rhythmic Pop area.

Nickleback aren't alternative, and they're extremely Pop/Rock. They're similar to the Journeys or Survivors of the 80s. And it doesn't get more Bryan Adams/mainstream Rock then the current Hinder song. Or the Three Doors Down hits.

Its called formula rock.


You still have pure Pop like Jojo. Or what about Brooke Hogan?

JoJo yes. Brooke Hogan should be in the Rhythmic Pop catigory.

You've got your Alanis Morisette type of crossover Rock from Evanescence

You cannot compare Evanescence to Alanis.

Mario Vazquez is pure Pop

Sounds more like something I would hear on an Urban AC station. By the way I actually like his song.


You've got Rock bands like Blue October which sound exactly like Sister Hazel and the Blues Traveler's big hits.

Comparing Blue October to Sister Hazel and Blues Traveler (especially saying they sound exactly alike) is like comparing Matchbox 20 to Mudvayne and Slipknot.

Puff Daddy had a huge CHR hit in 97, and he's still releasing good Hip Hop/Pop records.

"Diddy"'s current music is bad and is getting very little if any CHR airplay. I Need A Girl Parts 1 & 2 were his last good records.


You've got Panic At The Disco to take care of the Third Eye Blind type fans.


You have to be kidding me. Panic! At The Disco caters mostly to poser punks and teenie bopper girls like my sister while Third Eye Blind catered to everybody.

My problem with the time period Jeremy stated as "the best" was 99-2001. Wayyyy too much Boy band crap. You had LFO with the super sappy record that went "New kids on the block had a bunch of hits...", yeah you know the one - "Summer Girls".
You had 98 Degrees, Backstreet Boys, N Sync, Mandy Moore, and just way too much bubblegum Pop in general. All of these acts were supposedly influenced by the early 90s Hip Hop/Doo Wop sound of Boyz II Men, SWV, En Vogue, and Shai. So in essence the boybands were FAKE R&B. I'm so glad by 2001 the charts saw more REAL Rhythmic music charting, just like in the early 90s.

The early 90s is when CHR started dying off and when Hot AC began exploding across the country. That boyband bubblegum crap is what sparked the interest in CHR again and thus bringing it back. Thats something you have to give it credit for. It gave CHR something of its own that you usually couldn't get on other formats. CHR had the bubblegum, dance. pop rock and pop hip hop. Rhythmic CHR had the hip hop, Hot AC had the Hot AC. Alternative had the alternative. Now CHR is just Rhythmic CHR and Alternative smashed together and Hot AC is mostly just where CHR hits that aren't hip hop go when they're burnt out so they can get burnt out more.

I have an aircheck I made of WSNX Grand Rapids, MI in August of 1998. On it it runs from regular format into Open House Party which they ran back then. The format was officially rhythmic CHR (2000 is when CC bought it and tweaked Mainstream) The difference between regular format and OHP was like night and day. Now if they were still carrying OHP (their competition WHTS runs it now) and were still a rhythmic CHR (which they pretty much are except overnights when they throw in harder alternative tracks) it wouldn't sound very much different.
 
Oh boy, so you're basing your findings on a very sucessful Rhythmic leaning CHR/Pop (WSNX) and a very successful adult friendly CHR/Pop (Z-104). All that's happened is that the pendulum has swung more towards SNX's corner. Makes sense too - more female adults today that listen to CHR enjoy the Rhythmic leaning hits, and that's on top of the younger age females of course who prefer Rhythmic music.

Jeremy, you seem to forget that CHRs play whatever their core wishes to hear. Since CHRs target first and foremost females 18-34, and since now both the younger and older ends who LISTEN to CHR radio (which is different from saying all females 18-34) prefer Rhythmic music the most, then that's what you're gonna get.
A few years back it was the god awful super watered down, dumb as bricks Teen Pop that was hitting the spot, and now it's Rhythmic hits. Back in the mid 90s the upper end of the 18-34 CHR demo was vastly different in its musical preference from the younger end. But ever since both the younger and older female demos graduated from Teen Pop.

I'd like to see a little less lean on Rhythmic music on CHR radio myself, but I'm not a female now am I? And neither are you.
In the mid 80s it was Rock/Pop that was loved most by a lot of target CHR demo, and that's why in the late 80s/early 90s the older demos preferred Phil Collins, Bot Meets Girl, or Michael Bolton on their CHR. The younger demos were already much more into Rhythmic, Hard Rock, and Dance, then later in the early 90s were very big on crossover yet edgy Modern Rock music (ie Beck, Nirvana, Gin Blossoms, and so on).

The early 90s were some of the best years ever for creative music. A lot of CHRs failed not b/c the music wasn't there, but rather b/c you had to be more creative in how you programmed a CHR. You could no longer just simply rely on the Top 40 in Bollboard's Hot 100, but rather had to find your own hits. Some stations went too far into playing Hip Hop and Dance while keeping Roxette and Amy Grant on their playlists, while others became too afraid to play the biggest crossover Rhythmic and Hip Hop hits.
Advertisers in many medium and small sized markets were also giving CHR radio trouble at the time, especially those leaned on too much of the big Rap hits. Stations that were number one in their markets, like Power 103 Terre Haute (I think that was their name) went dark b/c the advertisers didnt get the station.
Audience's tastes were also changing, and that meant that adults that couldnt grasp the new sounds of Hip Hop and Modern Rock, but didnt want to hear a traditional A/C station, turned to Country music as well.

It was the mid 90s, not 1999, when CHR got its groove back on. Once 103.5 KTU debuted in NYC with a Dance station suddenly lead to a very strong resurgence in CHR/Pop radio in general.
You had big Dance crossover hits, you had pure Pop from Merryl Bainbridge with "Mouth", or Savage Garden with "I Want You", or "I Love You Always Forever" by Donna Lewis, you had Teen Pop like Hanson and the Backstreet Boys, the new girlpower movement from the Spice Girls, you still had the big female singer songwriters lilke Sarah Mclachlan and Jewel, you still had adult artists like Celeine Dion, and you had some amazing Rhythmic records. Blackstreet's "No Diggity", Keith Sweat, Coolio's "Gangsta's Paradise" from 1995, you had Will Smith exploding in 97, the Fugees, etc.

1999? It was't a bad year at all, but definitely not the best. It was just a pain to listen to stations like 102.7 KIIS-FM when every other song you'd hear was a from girl/boyband. I think KIIS-FM sounds much better today, even though they lean much harder on Rhythmic hits. I prefer it to their 1999 Radio Disney sound.
 
CHRles said:
1999? It was't a bad year at all, but definitely not the best. It was just a pain to listen to stations like 102.7 KIIS-FM when every other song you'd hear was a from girl/boyband. I think KIIS-FM sounds much better today, even though they lean much harder on Rhythmic hits. I prefer it to their 1999 Radio Disney sound.

KIIS FM sounds like ABSOLUTE garbage right now... recently, only 5 of the top 11 songs nationally were being heard there... even now, you have no Hinder, Nickelback, Fray, Evanescance or Snow Patrol... Yup, that's 5 of the top 10 most popular songs in America and KIIS is NOT playing them!!! It's all CC's fault... they figure if people want to hear them, they can go to sister station Star 98.7... meanwhile, they'll just keep burning their top 4 currents at 100+ times a week and leave the listeners board... it's no wonder I'm boycotting them!!!

I also do wonder why advertisers still target the 18-34 females and why people are living off the antiquated notion they should still be the "target demo"... they don't spend nearly as much as many of the other demos despite their listening habits. The bean counters really need to re-evaluate how they are spending their advertising cash. Right now, they are throwing a lot of money away... I mean, look at how well "Gallery" did on the CHR/Pop chart... the only demos it tested well in were the females 12-34 (did better in the 12-17 & 18-24's than in 25-34's though). The Mario Vazquez album that "Gallery" is on has failed to even crack Billboard's Top 200 album chart during the top 10 run of this "hit". You can look at the downloads too, and they are HORRIBLE. Why target a demo that doesn't spend money??? Interesting, isn't it?
 
First of all, ratings-wise KIIS-FM is consistently one of the top rated stations in L.A., Number one at certain times and with certain demos, and is the most successful English language radio station in the country probably revenue-wise.
KIIS-FM first and foremost targets females 18-34 so they prolly don't care if you or someone in Wisconsin (like Jeremy) boycotts them.
You're also forgetting a number of facts that advertisers and the station know all too well:
1) The older the demos get the less they are proned to be influenced by the ads on the radio.
2) Women usually are the primary decision makers with money 70 percent of the time in married households. They're the ones who spend more, and they have the ultimate saying power in which car a family might choose to buy.
3) If you're number one with a broad demo like 18-34 why would you want to change things?
4) If you're one of the highest grossing, revenue-generating stations in the world why would you want to change things?
5) If you're getting the results you've set out to acheieve why would you want to change things?

This is California man. Successful CHRs have never worried about playing all the records charting on the Top 10. In the late 80s/early 90s Q-106 was San Diego's premiere CHR. It leaned on Dance and Rhythmic, and oftentimes ignored some of the big Rock/Pop hits.
San Francisco doesn't even have a CHR, and let me tell you something - if S.F. gets a CHR like KIIS-FM it's way better then nothing.
Hinder just isn't a big hit in Cali's biggest markets. Star 98.7 isn't playing it (or barely playing it), K-Rock tried playing it but gave up after a few weeks (and its hardly what I'd call a Modern Rock song) so then why would KIIS-FM play it? You have to head out to Riverside to hear a station play that song, LOL. It's the same situation in San Francisco where you can't hear Hinder on Live 105, Alice 97.3, or Star 101.3. What about San Diego?

I don't know why KIIS-FM isn't playing Snow Patrol or Nickleback. They're still playing Panic at the Disco! It has also been giving light rotation to My Chemical Romance over the past couple of weeks. KIIS in general is very interesting in that it's core older 18-34 demo loves almost nothing but Rhythmic. It's actually the YOUNGER end of the 18-34 demo, and especially the teens who are requesting some Pop/Rock. That's why you're more likely to hear recurrents from The Killers, Maroon 5, and Green Day at night. With almost every other CHR it's the other way around - CHRs will lean more heavily on Rhythmic at night while sound more balanced during the day. Not so at KIIS-FM.
 
john77 said:
CHRles said:
1999? It was't a bad year at all, but definitely not the best. It was just a pain to listen to stations like 102.7 KIIS-FM when every other song you'd hear was a from girl/boyband. I think KIIS-FM sounds much better today, even though they lean much harder on Rhythmic hits. I prefer it to their 1999 Radio Disney sound.

KIIS FM sounds like ABSOLUTE garbage right now... recently, only 5 of the top 11 songs nationally were being heard there... even now, you have no Hinder, Nickelback, Fray, Evanescance or Snow Patrol... Yup, that's 5 of the top 10 most popular songs in America and KIIS is NOT playing them!!! It's all CC's fault... they figure if people want to hear them, they can go to sister station Star 98.7... meanwhile, they'll just keep burning their top 4 currents at 100+ times a week and leave the listeners board... it's no wonder I'm boycotting them!!!

I also do wonder why advertisers still target the 18-34 females and why people are living off the antiquated notion they should still be the "target demo"... they don't spend nearly as much as many of the other demos despite their listening habits. The bean counters really need to re-evaluate how they are spending their advertising cash. Right now, they are throwing a lot of money away... I mean, look at how well "Gallery" did on the CHR/Pop chart... the only demos it tested well in were the females 12-34 (did better in the 12-17 & 18-24's than in 25-34's though). The Mario Vazquez album that "Gallery" is on has failed to even crack Billboard's Top 200 album chart during the top 10 run of this "hit". You can look at the downloads too, and they are HORRIBLE. Why target a demo that doesn't spend money??? Interesting, isn't it?

How good a song does on the CHR Mediabase chart has little to do on how well it does on an individual station playlist, mainly because a majority of it is based on demos and requests. You have to see what Los Angeles likes, not what the U.S. likes, because, Kiss in LA is not Kiss in the United States. Even satellite radio has to research their market a bit.
 
Ditto on all that.
I'd personally love for KIIS-FM to be a true hit music station playing "all the hits, not just some of them". Since KIIS-FM has to worry about attracting listeners in a metro area of 16 million people (L.A., Orange County, and Riverside) I don't think they'd be too worried if a couple of radio geeks stop listening to the station. It's not intended for people who truly follow the charts and know whats up nationally. It could definitely be affected by hits that chart nationally or internationally, but ultimately their focus is playing the records that test best with their targetted audience.
 
For the most part, exactly the type of responses I was expecting... no need for me to even respond to most of it...

One thing though is that Hinder is actually doing pretty well at Star... it's been consistently getting about 25-35 spins a week... it's quite normal to see songs bounce around on their playlist... pick a given day of the week and a song might be #11 on their playlist... it could be #25 the very next week without hardly losing any spins... Hinder is actually a great example if you compare totals week to week...

Lastly, I'll add that the name "KIIS"... like fellow Clear Channel property, KOST is a brand here in L.A... advertisers think they know what they're getting, but in reality KIIS is getting dangerously close to sounding like a station that (like the Terre Haute station cited) advertisers don't get.
 
L.A. is COMPLETELY different from Terre Haute, and keep in mind we're in 2006 not the early 90s.
Power 106 is actually doing very well revenue-wise, especially in the last few years. It took a number of years for NYC's Hot 97 and L.A.'s Power 106 to generate the kind of revenue that was on par with their ratings. Ever since they've acheived high revenues they've made it easier for others CHRs, as well as Urbans, to play more Hip Hop.
Nowadays you even see some succesful Rhythmic CHRs and Rhythmic leaning CHRs in small Midwestern markets, so I doubt KIIS-FM is headed for a danger zone.
 
KIIS went rhythmic when they moved, fired Rick Dees and hired Ryan Seacrest.

WKSC Chicago sounds like a ripoff of KIIS and WKQI ever since they fired Rod Phillips and hired Rick Gillette (From the LA area) and WKQI's PD for consulting. No Hinder, no Snow Patrol, nothing else but a bunch of rhythmic and The Fray and Cartel tossed in. Thats not CHR in my books. Its wannabe rhythmic CHR

Never in my life after 2003 I thought I would end up saying this but WXSS sounds about 10 times better then WKSC right now both in sound quality, and playlist.


I stick with XM for CHR personally. 20 On 20 and Hitlist are pretty good.
 
Jeremy Andrews said:
KIIS went rhythmic when they moved, fired Rick Dees and hired Ryan Seacrest.

WKSC Chicago sounds like a ripoff of KIIS and WKQI ever since they fired Rod Phillips and hired Rick Gillette (From the LA area) and WKQI's PD for consulting. No Hinder, no Snow Patrol, nothing else but a bunch of rhythmic and The Fray and Cartel tossed in. Thats not CHR in my books. Its wannabe rhythmic CHR

Never in my life after 2003 I thought I would end up saying this but WXSS sounds about 10 times better then WKSC right now both in sound quality, and playlist.


I stick with XM for CHR personally. 20 On 20 and Hitlist are pretty good.

I used to have XM until I built my own playlist. 20 on 20 is an excellent station.

As far as WXSS over WKSC, I would alsoo personally prefer WXSS. WKSC and WXSS both have a similar number of pop/rock songs, but WXSS has these specific songs on heavy rotation and leave their Rhythmic playlist scattered throughout. WKSC pushes these songs to the bottom and have nothing but Rhytmhic in their top 10, even 15. Also, WXSS has a flavor to their CHR. WKSC sounds just like any other Rhythmic-leaning CHR with the Kiss prefix.
 
I'll have to disagree with Jeremy as well.

CHR is at it's prime now... more than any time in the past 10 years. Telepopmuzik and the other flops mentioned are not signs of anything good from 2001. Maybe you liked it because it was "different." The fact is, when CHR can be successful with songs exclusive to the format, thing are working. And just because Hot AC plays it, doesn't mean it's not exclusive to CHR. You can consider Fergie exclusive to the format, even though some hot AC's, rhythmics, and even urbans play her. That even shows the power of CHR when WE are breaking the music. Urban stations are grabbing our music (Justin, Fergie, Gwen, Nelly Furtado), after we've proven it.

I count about 20 of the top 40 that I consider CHR exclusive artists. Pretty good if you ask me.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom