One Possible Scenario For KDFC

[Madmansam]

I've been thinking about it and here is a possible scenario for Entercom to get rid of Classical for 102.1. It has happened before and can happen again. In the past, many companies that have bought Classical Music stations have made deals with other companies to move the Classical format to a lesser signal. Examples: Denver's KVOD moves from 99.5 to 92.1 in a deal between Tribune and Chancellor. San Diego's KFSD moves from 94.1 to 92.1 in a deal between Nationwide and Astor. It happened in Monterey for KBOQ to move from 92.7 to 95.5. And it has happened in San Francisco, when Westinghouse bought KKHI-1550 and 95.7. Westinghouse sold both the calletters AND Classical Music library to Saul Levine's Mount Wilson FM Broadcasters for 1510 and 100.7. Could Entercom sell both the KDFC calls as well as the Classical Music library? But to who? Could KNGY-92.7 be the new KDFC? Or maybe the soon to be new owners of 1260 AM?

 

[Madmansam]

Also in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Classical KHFM moved from its longtime home at 96.3 when Citadel Broadcasting bought it but sold the calls and Classical Music library to a nearby Santa Fe station at 95.5.

 

[asstprince]

Gosh no!!!!!

Please don't give them any ideas!

 

[Kent]

Also in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Classical KHFM moved from its longtime home at 96.3 when Citadel Broadcasting bought it but sold the calls and Classical Music library to a nearby Santa Fe station at 95.5.

I'm not sure this scenario would be too encouraging for Entercom. Not only did what replaced classical at 96.3 struggle to do even as well but the lesser 95.5 signal finally managed to become viable in Albuquerque after struggling there for a couple of years. It was a Santa Fe stick that missed the bus when it came to being able to upgrade and cover Albuquerque in the 80's. It's kind of interesting to note that stations that have replaced classical generally haven't fared very well after dumping the format. While many have done better than classical, they're often killed off very quickly as they fail to meet ownership's expectations and fail to make the level of money necessary to turn a profit based on the amount of debt to buy them.

 

[LKellerIII]

"It's kind of interesting to note that stations that have replaced classical generally haven't fared very well after dumping the format."

How about 'if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it?' KDFC's ratings were down a bit in the last book, but it was still good enough to rate the station in the top 10, and they've been getting very respectable ratings for the last few years. Yeah, I know classical music listeners are old fogeys, and advertisers don't like them. But does Entercom really want to take compete with other stations by adopting some other over-used format? The only format hole here is Oldies- Classic Hits, and supposedly advertisers don't like that either.

 

[Madmansam]

Also in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Classical KHFM moved from its longtime home at 96.3 when Citadel Broadcasting bought it but sold the calls and Classical Music library to a nearby Santa Fe station at 95.5.

It's kind of interesting to note that stations that have replaced classical generally haven't fared very well after dumping the format. While many have done better than classical, they're often killed off very quickly as they fail to meet ownership's expectations and fail to make the level of money necessary to turn a profit based on the amount of debt to buy them.

You maybe right, but I wonder if the radio companies think they made a mistake. If they replace Classical with another format and the new format fails, why do they try another format instead of acknowledging the mistake and switching back to Classical. Because to a Big Corporation, you can make more money on younger demographics. Now while most everyone on this board dismisses a "CHR/Pop" format for the SF Bay Area, those same naysayers also said that Country would never return, but never say never. So who knows if 102.1 will remain Classical or suddenly become "Rock 102.1" or "[email protected] The Pop Music Channel"?

 

[sdwulfdawg]

"It's kind of interesting to note that stations that have replaced classical generally haven't fared very well after dumping the format."

How about 'if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it?' KDFC's ratings were down a bit in the last book, but it was still good enough to rate the station in the top 10, and they've been getting very respectable ratings for the last few years. Yeah, I know classical music listeners are old fogeys, and advertisers don't like them. But does Entercom really want to take compete with other stations by adopting some other over-used format? The only format hole here is Oldies- Classic Hits, and supposedly advertisers don't like that either.

1. San Francisco is its own republic and is different with its very eclectic demos.

2. "Old Fogeys" are not the only people who listen to classical music. Younger demos are tuning to classical and other formats as popular music is disenfranchising a lot of people with it s current state with the predominance of hip-hop influence. It's like saying only people who chew Skoal listen to country western.

 

[LKellerIII]

"'Old Fogeys' are not the only people who listen to classical music. Younger demos are tuning to classical and other formats as popular music is disenfranchising a lot of people with it s current state with the predominance of hip-hop influence. It's like saying only people who chew Skoal listen to country western."

Yes - I know that people other than old fogeys listen to classical music. I was speaking somewhat 'tongue-in-cheek' in response to all of the people posting here who insist that Classical, Oldies, and Country are dead in the Bay Area because advertisers don't like to spend money on stations with older or non-urban demographics. Obviously, they were wrong about Country - though it remains to be seen if "The Wolf" is a success. But Entercomm did the logical thing, and programmed 95.7 to fill an unmet need - a format hole that has existed here since "The Bear" died. So while a lot of people here are screaming for yet ANOTHER CHR/Pop station (first "Mix 96," now "Q-102" ...for some reason, it has to rhyme), a few of us have been wondering if it makes more sense to have stations that fill a need.

KDFC's consistently good ratings indicate to me that it would be STUPID for Entercomm to kill it just to get a tiny slice of the 18-34 listeners already listening to Wild/Star/Alice/KMEL. HELLO! there are no other classical stations here!!

And I think it's also within the realm of possibilitythat a Classic Hits station could reappear - possibly when CBS gets sick of the consistently crappy ratings on one of their FMs.

 

[HenryOchs]

"It's kind of interesting to note that stations that have replaced classical generally haven't fared very well after dumping the format."

How about 'if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it?' KDFC's ratings were down a bit in the last book, but it was still good enough to rate the station in the top 10, and they've been getting very respectable ratings for the last few years. Yeah, I know classical music listeners are old fogeys, and advertisers don't like them. But does Entercom really want to take compete with other stations by adopting some other over-used format? The only format hole here is Oldies- Classic Hits, and supposedly advertisers don't like that either.

1. San Francisco is its own republic and is different with its very eclectic demos.

2. "Old Fogeys" are not the only people who listen to classical music. Younger demos are tuning to classical and other formats as popular music is disenfranchising a lot of people with it s current state with the predominance of hip-hop influence. It's like saying only people who chew Skoal listen to country western.

Maybe 102.1 should flip to Classic Rock and re-position itself as "102.1 The Eagle" or "102.1 The Hawk." We don't have any good Classic Rock stations in San Francisco. Any thoughts?

 

[XCountry285]

KDFC should be top 40. Really. How about Q 102 or B 102 Today's Hit Music. or like Mix 102 or Z 102. something like that.

 

[LKellerIII]

"KDFC should be top 40. Really. How about Q 102 or B 102 Today's Hit Music. or like Mix 102 or Z 102. something like that."

How many times do we have to hear this "Q102" scenario? It's been talked about over and over again. Then we get back into how Entercom has dumped classical in other cities, and somebody replies that Top 40 is not viable in the Bay Area because the format his been "flanked" by Wild, KMEL, Star, Alice. Blah-blah-blah.

The FACT is...(are you listening?)...KDFC has the second highest classical listenership in the U.S., after the New York Times owned station in New York City. No matter how much the Entercom suits secretly hate Beethoven, they will not throw that away. Giving up a Top 10 rated format for yet another pop station which will rate a 1.5 would be S-T-U-P-I-D !, So Entercom is committed to Classical...for now.

OBVIOUSLY - this could change if the ratings erode, or it becomes harder to sell time on the station. But that is probably at least a year down the road - so please give "Q102" a rest for awhile. Maybe you can stream KIIS-FM in the meantime. I hear their morning DJ is that cool Ryan Seacrest guy.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

There you go. Here's a great way to for Entercom to make friends a Sophisiticated place like San Francisco...

Reintroducing Country Music Again after it has failed twice in recent years

AND

Blowing up the only Classical Music station in favor of a T&A chasing active rock station targeted for Joe Six-pack.

OR

Beating that CHR/Pop dead horse again. "I Want my CHR Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

 

[davideduardo]

Giving up a Top 10 rated format for yet another pop station which will rate a 1.5 would be S-T-U-P-I-D !, So Entercom is committed to Classical...for now.

OBVIOUSLY - this could change if the ratings erode, or it becomes harder to sell time on the station. But that is probably at least a year down the road - so please give "Q102" a rest for awhile. Maybe you can stream KIIS-FM in the meantime. I hear their morning DJ is that cool Ryan Seacrest guy.

The problem today is that the station is not even in the top 20 in 25-54 or, as commonly expressed, "the sales demos." As long as the market supports it, for other reasons, and it bills well (17th in billings last year) it will continue as it has a unique position.

 

[LKellerIII]

"There you go. Here's a great way to for Entercom to make friends in a Sophisiticated place like San Francisco...Reintroducing Country Music Again after it has failed twice in recent years
AND Blowing up the only Classical Music station in favor of a T&A chasing active rock station targeted for Joe Six-pack."

Michael - I'll admit I was surprised that Entercom decided to give Country another try in the Bay Area. But as far as I'm concerned, The Wolf is more proof that a Top 40 station is not viable. I'm sure Entercom considered both formats, among others. And I'm sure they researched the history of both formats here (as we all know, the 95.7 frequency had both formats within the last 10 years), and decided Country was their best chance. Failed format or not, Country was an obvious format hole. Top 40 is NOT for all of the reasons discussed ad nauseum on this board.

Remember when all the CHR fans were hoping for "Mix 96"?

KOIT is obviously a HUGE winner for them, and it makes more sense (to me anyway) to keep the format at 102.1 stable - and earning dependable revenue - while they are working on 95.7.