One reason why even HD FM will fail in the marketplace.

[rbrucecarter5]

Interesting! I don't think we are referring to the same thing though. I need to step up my game and try to find that source! As I recall, this system allowed a FM signal to be as strong as a mono signal, while still being in stereo. Someone will eventually run across this thread and know what i'm talking about (so i hope)

Does anyone know a good resource to view the 60dbu map for HD-1 signals?

That sounds like a description of the Sony xdr-f1hd - an HD tuner that is highly prized by DX'ers due to its incredible sensitivity. Unfortunately, it is now out of production and often goes for hundreds of dollars on eBay.

 

[Wimmmex]

I thought that HD was radio's digital window.
Now I know that streaming is radio's digital window, not HD.

Why can't there be both?

Synchronization of the analog and digital was not easy, particularly on AM.

If you're stations are out of synch...then you got some bum engineers. If your engineers can't keep it in synch, then get new engineers. My stations are virtually 100% synched.

there was nothing interesting on HD in most markets unless I liked Bollywood tunes and spoke Hindi.

I thought you were all for niche formats and foreign language stations? Oh, I see, except when HD provides them. LOL!

and people are not buying radios anymore...

This is the key to the whole shebang. apathy is running rampant about radio.

they are buying smartphones and want to link them to the dashboard.

And then they are listening to pandora...not radio.

HD is sorta' like the appendix. We got one, it does not do anything to enhance life,

Like I said before...it's there to be an ancillary service...offering some extra functionality to your radio. Some will take advantage of it...some won't. Remember the early days of stereo?

HD is being "saved" only by traffic data and the occasional translator.

HD can do all sorts of things...traffic, artist experience, tagging, etc. FM stations are not going to give it up.

On its own, it never gets ratings or revenues.

It might get the same ratings that Vietnamese station you were proposing would. ;-)

And, in case it's been awhile since you've been in a radio station, it already delivers revenue.

 

[fordranger797]

HD can do all sorts of things...traffic, artist experience, tagging, etc. FM stations are not going to give it up.

In my humble opinion, the only reason why HD radio is still operating today is the fact that so many stations invested in expensive equipment to operate an HD signal.

 

[Wimmmex]

In my humble opinion, the only reason why HD radio is still operating today is the fact that so many stations invested in expensive equipment to operate an HD signal.

And now that it's on....now that we have the ability to send out multiple streams....now that we have extra real estate to sell...why would anyone turn it off?

 

[davideduardo]

And now that it's on....now that we have the ability to send out multiple streams....now that we have extra real estate to sell...why would anyone turn it off?

Of the perhaps 1700 FM's in HD, name me 10 that are billing enough even to cover the HD gear's electric bill from HD-2 programming that is not also broadcast on an FM translator.

Or name me one HD-2 FMs that don't have a translator that has shown up for two consecutive Arbitron / Nielsen books.

 

[Wimmmex]

Of the perhaps 1700 FM's in HD, name me 10 that are billing enough even to cover the HD gear's electric bill from HD-2 programming that is not also broadcast on an FM translator.

I didn't know there were 1700 HDs! Impressive.

I don't know everyone's financials....only mine.

But I can assume that this one is paying the bills!

WXDX-FM HD2 and KLOU HD-2.

I know in my situation, I had a group that wanted to lease an entire HD2 channel 24/7 to put EWTN on it.

Or name me one HD-2 FMs that don't have a translator that has shown up for two consecutive Arbitron / Nielsen books.

I thought you said in an earlier post that formats don't have to show up in the ratings to be successful?

Remember, you're big explanation of why Vietnamese programming is so great?

Niche programming is niche programming....you can't play both sides of the argument eduardo.....

 

[davideduardo]

Why can't there be both?

Because the consumer has no interest. After hundreds of millions worth of radio advertising, displays in stores and dealer credits, nearly nobody knows what HD even is.

If you're stations are out of synch...then you got some bum engineers. If your engineers can't keep it in synch, then get new engineers. My stations are virtually 100% synched.

Good for you. Obviously, the priorities for HD at the stations in markets I visit is low. When 50 kw clear channel AMs like KFI and KNX can't staty in synch, and FMs from the same CC and CBS clusters have been heard out of synch, maybe it shows that they really don't care.

It's the same reason why nearly no FM with HD has HD equipment on their auxiliary, and when work is being done on the main, they can have the HD off the air for days on end.

I thought you were all for niche formats and foreign language stations? Oh, I see, except when HD provides them. LOL!

I just said that the only thing of interest in several markets is Desi Radio. In other words, I found the Hindi programming to be the only good offering on HD. Read it again... I said it was positive, and the only positive HD service in several markets.

I don't do niche formats. I work in general market stations. Buenos Aires and San Juan and Lima are large markets where I have done general market radio. And in US cities like Miami and LA and San Antonio where the Hispanic population is above or just under 50% it is hard to consider Spanish to be "foreign". Hey, come to think of it, aren't "San Antonio" and "Los Ángeles Spanish language names? Foreign? Pffffftttt.

This is the key to the whole shebang. apathy is running rampant about radio.

Wrong. People are not apathetic about the content, just about the ancient distribution methods.

And then they are listening to pandora...not radio.

Please survey a few thousand consumers who use streaming and ask if iHeart and Pandora are or are not radio. Over 95% will call it radio, even if not prompted with the term.

The audience has been transformed. You have not gotten on the bus.

Like I said before...it's there to be an ancillary service...offering some extra functionality to your radio. Some will take advantage of it...some won't. Remember the early days of stereo?

Stereo, in 1961, was intended to be a push for FM, which had spent two decades (or, if you are picky, 15 years on the "new" band) without impacting audiences. The problem was that less than 1% of the population was using FM and in most markets, none showed in the ratings. Radio today reaches nearly 250 million people each week, yet none of them have shown interest in the added capabilities of HD. Where HD is of use is in getting on a translator with a new service or in charging someone some money for a traffic data stream on an HD-2.

HD can do all sorts of things...traffic, artist experience, tagging, etc. FM stations are not going to give it up.

Then why aren't most stations spending any money on it, but they are investing heavily in streaming architecture and services.

It might get the same ratings that Vietnamese station you were proposing would. ;-)

I'm not proposing a Vietnamese station... LBI already has it on what was the heritage KWIZ facility in Santa Ana. It bills in the mid 7 figures, too. I already explained that Nielsen does not have DST for any Asian language, so those stations don't show in the ratings. When Arthur Liu did a custom Arbitron survey of Asian audiences using native language recruiting, the stations were shown to have considerable audience.

And, in case it's been awhile since you've been in a radio station, it already delivers revenue.

Yes, but only if the station is leveraging an HD-2 into a translator operation or leasing an HD-2 or HD-3 to a data channel.

 

[TheBigA]

Then why aren't most stations spending any money on it, but they are investing heavily in streaming architecture and services.

Let me ask you this: Are they making money streaming?

 

[davideduardo]

I didn't know there were 1700 HDs! Impressive.

The iBiquity list shows 2000, but a number are licensed to run HD but not operating and even more are AMs that tried, did not like it, and quit.

But I can assume that this one is paying the bills! WXDX-FM HD2 and KLOU HD-2.

Yes, Penguins radio was written up in the trades. The report is that the team was paying to have the content run.

I really doubt that KLOU is doing anything other than running bonus spots from the core station.

Are you Lou or Ralph?

I know in my situation, I had a group that wanted to lease an entire HD2 channel 24/7 to put EWTN on it.

And I specifically said that the only way to make money with HD was leasing bandwidth for traffic or other data or for very narrow niche programming.

I thought you said in an earlier post that formats don't have to show up in the ratings to be successful?

Ethnic formats in languages other than Spanish don't have to show in ratings, and won't, because there is no Nielsen DST for their ethnic group. But they have to show advertiser results. And religious programming has to generate donations. All of these require audiences. HD2's doing mass appeal formats like AC, oldies, and such don't show in ratings in formats that don't require DST to be measured accurately.

Remember, you're big explanation of why Vietnamese programming is so great?

Yes... it appeals to a group that has about as much population as the Palm Springs MSA, which has no other station to listen to. In Palm Springs, there are 30 stations. And KVNR bills more than the top 5 or 6 stations in Palm Springs combined.

Niche programming is niche programming....you can't play both sides of the argument eduardo.....

You are assuming that when a station is in Spanish, it is a niche service. But when Spanish language stations often populate the top 10 in the biggest major markets, it is a little hard to see that point.

 

[davideduardo]

Let me ask you this: Are they making money streaming?

Some are, based on incremental revenues. Others, seeing the move of dollars to the web, are trying to buy space there before other radio options like Pandora pre-empt them.

But streaming is part of a total new media platform, including music acquisition, visual experiences, etc. Quite a few broadcasters... even specialized ones like Salem... are making profits from their new media enterprises.

 

[Wimmmex]

Because the consumer has no interest. After hundreds of millions worth of radio advertising, displays in stores and dealer credits, nearly nobody knows what HD even is.

Doesn't matter....there is no finish line.

When 50 kw clear channel AMs like KFI and KNX can't staty in synch,

Or they need an engineer who can figure it out.

It's the same reason why nearly no FM with HD has HD equipment on their auxiliary

You've said this before....and I knew of stations that didn't have stereo on their auxiliary....and some that didn't have an auxiliary at all! WBZ's auxilliary site is only 10KW. Doesn't mean anything.

Read it again... I said it was positive, and the only positive HD service in several markets.

And then you complain that other HD formats have no ratings...which is it?

I don't do niche formats.

You were touting the ownders of foreign language, Vietnames, and Salem,s religion.

Foreign? Pffffftttt.

That's a topic for another day.

Wrong. People are not apathetic about the content, just about the ancient distribution methods.

No, I'm right. They are leaving much good content on the sidelines....because there is so much of it. There is some good content on AM....but many people aren't even sampling it.

Please survey a few thousand consumers who use streaming and ask if iHeart and Pandora are or are not radio.

They'll say no....it's Pandora or iHeart. (You' know...it's Not TV....it's HBO!)

If you want a music jukebox...then there ya go...wheel one into your house. Broadcasting is something different.

The audience has been transformed.

And We are following it everywhere we can, on-air, online, HD, podcasts, etc

Y

ou have not gotten on the bus.

Not on your bus for sure....I don't trust you know where you're going!

Stereo, in 1961, was intended to be a push for FM,

Oh, stop with this stereo and FM crap...you've pitched it before..

Truth is...many FM's simulcasted....many FM's used automation. Many FM's were worth putting on the air.

Then why aren't most stations spending any money on it, but they are investing heavily in streaming architecture and services.

The money is already spent. It's on the air in every major market...and every major FM station in the country.

I'm not proposing a Vietnamese station...

You were saying that a station can be successful without ratings.....then you go and ask for ratings! Can't argue both sides of the street!

Yes, but only if the station is leveraging an HD-2

No...many operate without a translator.

and even more are AMs that tried, did not like it, and quit.

I'm not talking about AM. AM has it's own problems...and is on it's deathbed.

Yes, Penguins radio was written up in the trades. The report is that the team was paying to have the content run.

there ya go.

I really doubt that KLOU is doing anything other than running bonus spots from the core station.

Doubt away....you asked...I provided.

Are you Lou or Ralph?

Or George Paul, John or Ringo?

And I specifically said that the only way to make money with HD was leasing bandwidth for traffic or other data or for very narrow niche programming.

Thanks you...I made that point.

Ethnic formats in languages other than Spanish don't have to show in ratings,

Same for HD channels.

 

[Radiojar]

I have always felt that streaming would always be the future of radio back when it first became possible. All the other countries I have visited have considered HD, but have always chosen to stream and have not considered investing in HD. I believe mainly because of the economics.
I have been living in Mauritius for over four years now. And I study their radio industry in the sense of a micro experiment of the radio industry. The station owners here feel that the day will come when broadcasting a frequency will come to an end. They have made sure that they have their station's stream listed in every possible radio listing services as popular Tune In to the less known Radiobucket. We are just now seeing web radios appear in the stores and in some of the new cars.

 

[little bird]

The FCC needs to do with Hybrid Digital what they did with UHF in the early 60's. They need to mandate that all new radios be HD capable. They should have done it a decade ago.

 

[diymedia]

There's no way the FCC will issue a receiver mandate. It's politically unpalatable, and would generate massive pushback from the consumer electronics industry. A mandate would also force the closed design of the HD system onto receiver manufacturers...something the FCC has been reticent to do (and why it made adoption of the technology utterly voluntary).

 

[TheBigA]

There's no way the FCC will issue a receiver mandate. It's politically unpalatable, and would generate massive pushback from the consumer electronics industry. A mandate would also force the closed design of the HD system onto receiver manufacturers...something the FCC has been reticent to do (and why it made adoption of the technology utterly voluntary).

I agree. Just look at how antagonistic the cell phone manufacturers have been about adding FM. It's such a simple thing, available in many foreign countries, and the US industry is absolutely opposed, and the FCC won't mandate it.

 

[davideduardo]

The FCC needs to do with Hybrid Digital what they did with UHF in the early 60's. They need to mandate that all new radios be HD capable. They should have done it a decade ago.

In addition to the comments from diymedia and BigA I would add the limitation of HD to operate with acceptable battery life in portable devices. Since the FCC does seem to pay some attention to the broadcast of information during emergencies, mandating HD capability would be counter-productive as portables with HD have battery lives measured in hours... unlike conventional analog devices.

Of course, HDTV pretty much did away with those little battery operated portable 3" to 4" screen pocket TVs... the portables now available have very short charge lives and can't pick up most of the stations.

 

[fordranger797]

The FCC needs to do with Hybrid Digital what they did with UHF in the early 60's. They need to mandate that all new radios be HD capable. They should have done it a decade ago.

FM radio technology ain't broke. So there is no need to fix it

 

[TheBigA]

FM radio technology ain't broke. So there is no need to fix it

It wasn't meant to fix anything. It was to AUGMENT existing technology. An add-on, if you will.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

It wasn't meant to fix anything. It was to AUGMENT existing technology. An add-on, if you will.

Yeah, well too bad it didn't work and people didn't care.

 

[Wimmmex]

Yeah, well too bad it didn't work

Works fine for me, I listen to it every day. AM & FM.

.....maybe it's you?

and people didn't care.

They didn't care much for FM or stereo either at first.