Everybody on this board has got an opinion, so why did the Zone fail. 3 years ago it was at the top, now it's being blown up. So why do you think it failed? Leardership issues, talent issues, music issues, sales issues, or Infinity wanted to start something fresh. Thanks in advance for your opinions.
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Opinion Time: Why did the Zone fail?
- Thread starter Zur
- Start date
> Everybody on this board has got an opinion, so why did the
> Zone fail. 3 years ago it was at the top, now it's being
> blown up. So why do you think it failed? Leardership issues,
> talent issues, music issues, sales issues, or Infinity
> wanted to start something fresh. Thanks in advance for your
> opinions.
>
I'd have to think long and hard about when KZON was at the top. In fact, as I recall, until they nabbed Stern from the Edge, KZON was an average performer at best. (They may have performed well in certain demos. I don't know.)
I don't think there was a problem with the Zone per se. It's just that there are too many stations in Phoenix all trying to grab a slice of the same pie. There are elements of an audience for active, alternative, modern (whatever you choose to call it) rock. This music can be heard, one way or another, on KUPD, Edge, KDKB, KSLX (in a way) and KZON.
Yes, I know each station has differences in playlists, and the analogy isn't perfect, but we're talking about a broad style of music. This style appeals to a certain audience. It's also an audience that appears to be diminishing. Whether they're aging, going to satellite, I-Pod or some combination, no one knows for sure, but none of the aforementioned stations is a ratings powerhouse. I remember when KUPD was consistently in the top 5 in 12+ and KDKB was a must-listen in the 18-34 demo. Not so true anymore.
The truth is KZON blinked first. Their ownership has what they think is a viable new product - Free FM - ready to go and they think they can carve some ratings out of it.
Say what you will about Free FM, but it will stand out from the pack. Whether or not it's any good is a question we'll see answered later, but I give CBS credit for trying something newer.
The bigger question here is, why hasn't either KSLX or KDKB flipped by now?
> Zone fail. 3 years ago it was at the top, now it's being
> blown up. So why do you think it failed? Leardership issues,
> talent issues, music issues, sales issues, or Infinity
> wanted to start something fresh. Thanks in advance for your
> opinions.
>
I'd have to think long and hard about when KZON was at the top. In fact, as I recall, until they nabbed Stern from the Edge, KZON was an average performer at best. (They may have performed well in certain demos. I don't know.)
I don't think there was a problem with the Zone per se. It's just that there are too many stations in Phoenix all trying to grab a slice of the same pie. There are elements of an audience for active, alternative, modern (whatever you choose to call it) rock. This music can be heard, one way or another, on KUPD, Edge, KDKB, KSLX (in a way) and KZON.
Yes, I know each station has differences in playlists, and the analogy isn't perfect, but we're talking about a broad style of music. This style appeals to a certain audience. It's also an audience that appears to be diminishing. Whether they're aging, going to satellite, I-Pod or some combination, no one knows for sure, but none of the aforementioned stations is a ratings powerhouse. I remember when KUPD was consistently in the top 5 in 12+ and KDKB was a must-listen in the 18-34 demo. Not so true anymore.
The truth is KZON blinked first. Their ownership has what they think is a viable new product - Free FM - ready to go and they think they can carve some ratings out of it.
Say what you will about Free FM, but it will stand out from the pack. Whether or not it's any good is a question we'll see answered later, but I give CBS credit for trying something newer.
The bigger question here is, why hasn't either KSLX or KDKB flipped by now?
> The bigger question here is, why hasn't either KSLX or KDKB
> flipped by now?
Good question. I can't figure out why they don't just combine these two stations into one. They're not all that different and because of this they actually compete with eachother.
Only problem is:: what format to change to? AAA would still compete head-on w/ a classic rocker, now that Hot Talk may be taken, what to do? Mainstream CHR? Or something new, like a 90s-intensive station?
> flipped by now?
Good question. I can't figure out why they don't just combine these two stations into one. They're not all that different and because of this they actually compete with eachother.
Only problem is:: what format to change to? AAA would still compete head-on w/ a classic rocker, now that Hot Talk may be taken, what to do? Mainstream CHR? Or something new, like a 90s-intensive station?
> Good question. I can't figure out why they don't just
> combine these two stations into one.
It keeps others from launching a rock format in the market. That's an expensive flanker.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
> combine these two stations into one.
It keeps others from launching a rock format in the market. That's an expensive flanker.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
I have listened to "Sirius" and like the channels "Disorder" "Chill" and that other one I think its called "Left of center"
why can't they combine all the aspects of those and make a really cool station.
plus throw in the top alternative rock tracks.
Why does a station like "The Edge" play the same rock tracks again and again.
how many times can one hear "Ska" type modern rock in one day.
they lean a bit to heavy in that direction.
To many DAM HORNS for a rock station
)
how about some REAL variety and don't get all puffed up with pride because you played yet, the same Pixies songs over and over.
"Oooh, were cutting edge" we just played "Monkey gone to heaven" for the umpteenth time.
whats sad, is I Like that song, but if I have to hear it every time its pixies time Im gonna puke.
mix it up a bit better ok.
invest in a bigger music collection.
the Edge has really suprised me a time or two, especially during the lunch hour.
but come on, can't you be like that all the time.
throw in some off the wall tracks and rarities and give some new bands some chances.
and lay off all them DAM HORNS, youd think it was a JAZZ station or something)
why can't they combine all the aspects of those and make a really cool station.
plus throw in the top alternative rock tracks.
Why does a station like "The Edge" play the same rock tracks again and again.
how many times can one hear "Ska" type modern rock in one day.
they lean a bit to heavy in that direction.
To many DAM HORNS for a rock station
)how about some REAL variety and don't get all puffed up with pride because you played yet, the same Pixies songs over and over.
"Oooh, were cutting edge" we just played "Monkey gone to heaven" for the umpteenth time.
whats sad, is I Like that song, but if I have to hear it every time its pixies time Im gonna puke.
mix it up a bit better ok.
invest in a bigger music collection.
the Edge has really suprised me a time or two, especially during the lunch hour.
but come on, can't you be like that all the time.
throw in some off the wall tracks and rarities and give some new bands some chances.
and lay off all them DAM HORNS, youd think it was a JAZZ station or something
)> > Good question. I can't figure out why they don't just
> > combine these two stations into one.
>
> It keeps others from launching a rock format in the market.
> That's an expensive flanker.
I would agree with this idea if the two stations were actually putting out a differing product. But upon listening closely there's not much difference between the two stations. KUPD is an efective flank for a classic rock station - but right now they are flanking two classic rock stations.
Re: the comments about the edge, I agree as a musician it would be nice if they were more adventurous musically, but there is a certain line that you have to balance upon if you want the mainstream public to listen and therefore be able to make money from ad sales. The Edge walks this tightrope better than any other commercial alt. station in the US with the exception of the SoCal stations. Spend a month or two in Cleveland or St. Louis then see if the Edge seems as bad as you think it is right now.
> > combine these two stations into one.
>
> It keeps others from launching a rock format in the market.
> That's an expensive flanker.
I would agree with this idea if the two stations were actually putting out a differing product. But upon listening closely there's not much difference between the two stations. KUPD is an efective flank for a classic rock station - but right now they are flanking two classic rock stations.
Re: the comments about the edge, I agree as a musician it would be nice if they were more adventurous musically, but there is a certain line that you have to balance upon if you want the mainstream public to listen and therefore be able to make money from ad sales. The Edge walks this tightrope better than any other commercial alt. station in the US with the exception of the SoCal stations. Spend a month or two in Cleveland or St. Louis then see if the Edge seems as bad as you think it is right now.
>
> Re: the comments about the edge, I agree as a musician it
> would be nice if they were more adventurous musically, but
> there is a certain line that you have to balance upon if you
> want the mainstream public to listen and therefore be able
> to make money from ad sales. The Edge walks this tightrope
> better than any other commercial alt. station in the US with
> the exception of the SoCal stations. Spend a month or two
> in Cleveland or St. Louis then see if the Edge seems as bad
> as you think it is right now.
>
Your right, the edge is cutting edge if your comparing them to commercial radio.
and Cleveland, has NO real Alt. station, I lived there for years.
cleveland lost there only decent station back in the 90's when "The End" went to Hip Hop.
So what does this say about listeners, are we all so "Shallow"
that we are afraid to try something new?
I turn on those "Sirius" stations and I don't find myself Cringing in horror.
Im always suprised to find a band or song that I really like and have never heard before.
I do a lot of driving and I listen to the radio a lot and just get tired of hearing the same songs again and again.
sometimes I just turn off the radio and listen to the sound of the engine.
but you are right "The Edge" is as adventurous as phoenix radio can get for alternative rock.
another station that seems very adventurous would be Energy 92.7 & 101.1.
what a coincidence, but the two stations on FM in this city, that actually are worth listening to are both Independently Owned.
> Re: the comments about the edge, I agree as a musician it
> would be nice if they were more adventurous musically, but
> there is a certain line that you have to balance upon if you
> want the mainstream public to listen and therefore be able
> to make money from ad sales. The Edge walks this tightrope
> better than any other commercial alt. station in the US with
> the exception of the SoCal stations. Spend a month or two
> in Cleveland or St. Louis then see if the Edge seems as bad
> as you think it is right now.
>
Your right, the edge is cutting edge if your comparing them to commercial radio.
and Cleveland, has NO real Alt. station, I lived there for years.
cleveland lost there only decent station back in the 90's when "The End" went to Hip Hop.
So what does this say about listeners, are we all so "Shallow"
that we are afraid to try something new?
I turn on those "Sirius" stations and I don't find myself Cringing in horror.
Im always suprised to find a band or song that I really like and have never heard before.
I do a lot of driving and I listen to the radio a lot and just get tired of hearing the same songs again and again.
sometimes I just turn off the radio and listen to the sound of the engine.
but you are right "The Edge" is as adventurous as phoenix radio can get for alternative rock.
another station that seems very adventurous would be Energy 92.7 & 101.1.
what a coincidence, but the two stations on FM in this city, that actually are worth listening to are both Independently Owned.
G
granttheintern
Guest
> Why does a station like "The Edge" play the same rock tracks
> again and again.
> how many times can one hear "Ska" type modern rock in one
> day.
> they lean a bit to heavy in that direction.
>
> To many DAM HORNS for a rock station)
>
...
> and lay off all them DAM HORNS, youd think it was a JAZZ
> station or something)
>
The Edge doesn't play very much "ska" music, except during the skapunk show, where Craven seems to intentially eschew it, anyway. I can only think of one ska-ish band that the edge plays regularly: No Doubt. You don't hear Goldfinger or Less Than Jake on there, and they don't play Madness very much, if at all. You're right about the Pixies thing, tho. The new PD there really cut the library down when he came in. What I really don't like about the edge is all the damn active rock, the nickelback, staind, evenscence, etc. That belongs on KUPD, not an alternative station.
But back on topic: KZON.
Someone mentioned that it wasn't really even much of a dominant force until Stern came on. That's true. And that's why they switched it. Not because alternative doesn't work in this market, but because there just simply isn't room enough for two alternative stations. The edge was beating the Zone in nearly all dayparts besides mornings (not the last two trends, tho, where the Zone seemed to be making a rebound from their Spring/Summer slump). It was a smart business decision to drop alternative there, they couldn't compete with the edge anymore, not without Stern, anyway.
> again and again.
> how many times can one hear "Ska" type modern rock in one
> day.
> they lean a bit to heavy in that direction.
>
> To many DAM HORNS for a rock station
)>
...
> and lay off all them DAM HORNS, youd think it was a JAZZ
> station or something
)>
The Edge doesn't play very much "ska" music, except during the skapunk show, where Craven seems to intentially eschew it, anyway. I can only think of one ska-ish band that the edge plays regularly: No Doubt. You don't hear Goldfinger or Less Than Jake on there, and they don't play Madness very much, if at all. You're right about the Pixies thing, tho. The new PD there really cut the library down when he came in. What I really don't like about the edge is all the damn active rock, the nickelback, staind, evenscence, etc. That belongs on KUPD, not an alternative station.
But back on topic: KZON.
Someone mentioned that it wasn't really even much of a dominant force until Stern came on. That's true. And that's why they switched it. Not because alternative doesn't work in this market, but because there just simply isn't room enough for two alternative stations. The edge was beating the Zone in nearly all dayparts besides mornings (not the last two trends, tho, where the Zone seemed to be making a rebound from their Spring/Summer slump). It was a smart business decision to drop alternative there, they couldn't compete with the edge anymore, not without Stern, anyway.
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