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Opinions - True Health for Radio

Many times I’ve expressed gratitude to have a forum such as Radio-Info where exchange of ideas can take place. There are some interesting stats when you open the discussion board tab. As of this writing and counting, there are 38,560 members, 1,213,024 posts and 126,817 topics. Hello, that’s a helluva lot of discussion. Obviously, one would expect a disclaimer and R.I. is no exception and a portion of the disclaimer says “In fact many of the views expressed here are just plain wrong.”

The use of the word “many” is ambiguous enough to not be inaccurate as opposed to the word “majority” if that was used instead. While I don’t want to go into a discussion of definitions, do you ever wonder just how many opinions have been right on the money? Sometimes I think beyond the posts and wonder if any of the ideas become reality somehow, somewhere or if all our passion and effort make a difference.

Recently, in my local board I talked a little bit about passion and how I feel a lot of mine for radio is just slipping through my hands because so many who are the leaders in the business of radio appear to lack it.

This particular subject board I have to admit is my personal favorite to read. The diversity of ideas and concepts and even the pure energy in the writing I believe are healthy things. I will admit that while I try to keep an open mind about things, I often find the “brilliant” posts/posters to be the ones who in effect agree with me or that I agree with where they are coming from. But even putting that aside, I believe two major fundamental problems with radio is that a relatively few make major decisions in it and the decisions made are not listener centric.

Some of this can all come down to which side is more correct than wrong. We see radio today and it’s virtually the same no matter where you travel. Duplication of formats that are among the Top 3 in billing potential and basic sameness in uninspired playlists. It becomes obvious to me that creativity is not a metric goal. I often wonder if local management actually listens to their cluster and if they are proud of what they deliver to the public? That’s a rhetorical question. Revenue generation is a critical part of the radio business model but it shouldn’t be the only consideration or what winds up leading to decisions that may not be in the best interest of radio. This has probably been the source of the most comments on our board. And with all of that, nothing changes does it?

There is one more element to my overall frustration about the state of radio that despite all the postings and all the pleas to change course is on the subject of music itself. I often refer to the “Power of Great Music” in some of my local posts. Considering the genius in singing and writing, the magic and the poetic lyric imagery of so much music, commercial radio only offers selections that have been approved by the very few. It’s their interpretation of what is commercially viable. But again, can we really say that their decisions have indeed been the correct ones? Sadly, many will argue that’s it’s not radio’s place to keep genius alive.

I’m not even sure what I’m really trying to say as being frustrated can cloud a lot of things. But in my recent local post when I got into a format I envisioned for my market, I brought up the subject of Richard Harris’ “MacArthur Park.”

I remember reading an account of how that song was added to the WABC playlist back in 1968. The Cliffs Notes version is that many people working in the surrounding area heard the song being played in the music meeting and were just drawn to it, wanting to hear it again and again. The PD went with his gut, took a chance and decided to play the song. Obviously it was nothing like anything else being played at the time and it’s 7 plus minute length would represent a huge challenge to AM radio as in the time it took them to play that song, they could have played 3 others. But we all know what happened. “MacArthur Park” became an add all over the country and it turned out to be one of the biggest hits for the year. Today, that would not have happened. Who knows how many “MacArthur Parks” have slipped through the cracks never to be heard or enjoyed? Music creativity means very little if it doesn’t fit into some perceived model of what people will like. But again, do the few really know? I don’t trust or buy what they say research says. Stats can be manipulated in any way shape or form to fit whatever it is you want to do or not do.

My friends, we do need to think about how much we really loose when the few make decisions that affect millions. No one is perfect and so if the few err, the business of radio truly does suffer. I believe the diversity of opinions and a marketplace of ideas are radio’s best answer.

We often interchange the word “listen” when we talk radio. True, not all the opinions expressed in R.I. are the correct ones but there are lots of them. In that mix, there are no doubt ideas worthy of consideration. Considering what many of us perceive and agree that issues exist, one would think somewhere someone will attempt a different course. But that would involve listening to your audience and apparently that’s not one of those measured metrics so the posts just keep coming.
 
I forgot to mention......When I talked "MacArthur Park, obviously that was a local decision and it proved to be a correct one. There was a time, too many wrong decisions resulted in one loosing his job. Actually, that's the way it should be. Those in leadership roles need to know what they are doing. Look at our business world today - there have been lots of wrong decisions but as long as the revenue flows, no one things anything is a foul.

Today, as it applies to radio, how often do we see those who try to make a difference and who buck opinions wind up on the outside looking in? Knowing your craft doesn't mean as much as it once did. Being a "yes" man or woman helps keep the career going but it does little for radio IMHO. Just like these business people who made wrong decisions along the way but had revenue going for them, one day you know what hits the fan. That's why I believe it's so important that those with a different point of view be enouraged - they could really make all the difference.
 
I think that we have radio ruled by a plethora of managers who aren't playing to win. They're playing to not lose. The attitude isn't "let's bring more listeners to radio", it's "let's try to get more of the people already listening."

We hear a lot about "93% of people tune in radio at some time during the day". What goes less noticed is that the total ratings for all of radio are less than 25% in the best dayparts. From 7-midnight, you're looking at around 5%. Some people will tell you that radio is being replaced by other entertainment media. I contend that radio is giving away listeners to other entertainment media because programming is weak - especially after 7PM. If your product is weak, your audience will be weak. Seems simple to everybody except bean counters who wouldn't know creativity if it bit them in the ass.
 
SirRoxalot said:
I think that we have radio ruled by a plethora of managers who aren't playing to win. They're playing to not lose. The attitude isn't "let's bring more listeners to radio", it's "let's try to get more of the people already listening."

I suppose it could also be seen as an "audience efficiency" tactic, by which they could genuinely claim they're "more successful" now than in the past, simply because they've factored out the so-called dead-wood listenership. Which often happens to be the listenership more equipped with brain cells (and less conducive to radio advertisers' quack sales pitches).
 
Ahh yes, the 60s. I'm often reminded of that scene in Field of Dreams when James Earl Jones, playing 60s writer Terance Mann, chases after Ray Kinsella with bug spray, shouting "Go back to the 60s!"

It's not the 60s any more. You don't need me to remind you of that. Back in 1968, a station like WABC could take chances. They had a 20 share, for cryin' out loud. They had outlasted competitors WMCA and WINS. So they play a 7 minute psychodelic ballad about "someone left a cake out in the rain." I mean, really! Can you imagine a song like that today? What the message boards would do to such a song. Our tolerance as a people for art and creativity is at an all-time low. People watch Idol to see Simon tear into someone. Then they go on message boards to comment on the clothes or the physique.

It's hard to talk about music radio without talking about the music. Is the music today as good as it was 40 years ago? Are record labels more or less selective in choosing artists and singles? Are music decisions made for creative reasons or marketing reasons? How can I, as a programmer, make an unbiased music decision when my mailbox is overflowing with CD-Pros from artists I've never heard of? They bring the artist in, and she's cute and friendly, but can't sing. Now what? Name another hit by Richard Harris.

I re-read the pages in Rick Sklar's book dealing with MacArthur Park. He claims there was no collusion between ABC Records (Harris' label) and ABC Radio. Yet WABC played every single by the Mamas & Papas, Tommy Roe, Steppenwolf, and Three Dog Night. Heck, they played Eve of Destruction, a protest song on ABC Dunhill. Coincidence? Or am I attempting to build a conspiracy theory about WABC? I leave it up to you. But the world was a very different place in 1968. If only music decisions were that easy now.
 
JohnJax said:
When I talked "MacArthur Park, obviously that was a local decision and it proved to be a correct one.

Maybe. I find it interesting that a song, written in LA, recorded in LA, about a park in LA, was played for the first time in New York City. Where was LA radio? How did they miss this song? Perhaps playing "New York Mining Disaster."

Today, Richard Harris would have to re-sing the song hundreds of times for famous local parks in order to get airplay. "Central Park is melting in the dark, all the sweet green icing flowing down..."
 
quote author=SirRoxalot link=topic=163647.msg1400955#msg1400955 date=1267741885]
We hear a lot about "93% of people tune in radio at some time during the day". What goes less noticed is that the total ratings for all of radio are less than 25% in the best dayparts.[/quote]

In all the time I have been following Arbitron, and that's a bit over 40 years, the 6 AM to 7 PM PUR has not been 25. Morning drive approached that, but mid-days and afternoons were considerably less in the diary.

In the PPM, 95% of the population uses radio. But typical PUR's for AMD are 10, middays are around 13 and PMD is about 12. That''s because recall, whether it be Hooper or Pulse or Birch or Mediastat were all recall based as was the diary. And recall nearly always rounds up. The person who thought, since the 60's, that they listend from 6 to 9 AM really was only listening for 47 minutes... then and now.

From 7-midnight, you're looking at around 5%.

As it has been for decades... at 7 PM it starts relatively high, but by the 11 PM hour listening levels are miniscule.

Some people will tell you that radio is being replaced by other entertainment media.

Radio is not being replaced, but the real time push model of AM ad FM transmissios is because, given the broad avalability of pull model entertainment much more adapted to listener needs through new technology.

I contend that radio is giving away listeners to other entertainment media because programming is weak - especially after 7PM.

Nights have no greater decline in TSL than any other daypart. Simply, most people watch TV or movies at night.

If your product is weak, your audience will be weak. Seems simple to everybody except bean counters who wouldn't know creativity if it bit them in the ass.

The problem here is that you think the old "night rocker" DJ is what is missing from nights. The fact is, the rejection level for that kind of jocking and the 60s/70s is extremely high and is one of the things younger adults mention as a major objection to radio when compared to things like Pandora and the custom iPod playlist.
 
The Big A, why am I not surprised that you have taken a point of my argument to minimize what I was really trying to say. We all realize it is not 1968. What I am talking about is local decisions and giving those in charge latitude to perhaps not play everything that is on that corporate approved playlist or to tweak here and there to represent local flavor. What I'm saying isn't really radical. It's one size fits all and this is the creation of what amounts to the few making decisions that clearly are not always correct. Turn on the radio and listen. What you hear is the result of decisions made - pure and simple.

Now, let's go back in time for a moment because I can't allow that statement that a 20 share justifies taking a chance. Sorry folks for the history lesson but even with a blowtorch signal, WABC had to earn its standing and they worked for every listener they had. When the PD we both speak of came to the station in the early 60's, WABC was down in the ratings and far behind the other rockers in town. They didn't become #1 overnight and you know that. I can go into specifics as to how they grew year after year but for the sake of this arguement, it was because creativity and what was at the time, new ways of doing things weren't stiffled - they were supported. There were lots of decisions the PD had to make. But he made them and he could have just as soon died by the sword. And that's the way it should be. Today, local managers are not supported and their knowledge of the market doesn't mean much either. In fact, most don't seem to last if we look at all the posts that say that very thing. The result of today's thinking - turn on the radio and listen - you decide.

This subject string is about opinions that shape radio. You can apply that to anything. From government to the private sector, if you have decision makers that all think the same way, the results may not always be the best ones because some "right" answers would never be imagined. Someone much smarter than me gave me some advice when I was a manager and I needed to hire people to work on my team. He said, pick a team of people who have a varied background, work experience, gender, race, ethnic background etc, etc. and you will get better results. All I can tell you personally, he was right and I heard that over the years from other successful people too.

No, it's not 1968 and the overall rules of radio are far different. But I believe firmly that varied opinions on how to proceed into the future is the best medicine for radio. We hear so much of that worn out expression of thinking outside the box. Yeah, there's risk and taking a chance even involved risk in 1968. Wrong decisions and a WABC would never have remained dominant for as long as they did. You have to have good quality people in radio. Many are gone. And you have to consider many approaches for your business model and you have to listen to what your audience is telling you. There is the ultimate report card called ratings. We also have a lot of solid opinions represented in Radio-Info that I always believed were worth exploring.
 
The MacArthur Parks these days are Youtube memes; they have nothing to do with radio...
 
JohnJax said:
What I am talking about is local decisions and giving those in charge latitude to perhaps not play everything that is on that corporate approved playlist or to tweak here and there to represent local flavor.

It doesn't matter. You had this paragraph about diversity of opinions, but you still want one person to make music decisions. The only difference is you want that person to be at the station instead of somewhere else. The problem is that it doesn't matter where that person is. He can be locally, he can be regionally, he can be a consultant, or he can be national. The bottom line is that it's still one person making decisions that affect the listeners, and THEY don't care. "Local flavor" is a misnomer. Unless you're only playing local artists who write their own songs, you have no local flavor. It's just your opinion vs. mine. And if I'm a listener, I don't care about your decisions, regardless where they're made.

JohnJax said:
I can't allow that statement that a 20 share justifies taking a chance.

But it does. You have to EARN the right to make important decisions. Sklar did. He didn't have that kind of authority when he was at WINS. A few years later, Sklar would earn the title of group PD, and that allowed him to make music decisions in other markets. Had Super-radio been approved, he would have become a satellite program director, like the guy programming Dial-Global.

In this world, there are several ways to take chances. A 20 share is one. Another is to have a 0 share. As Dylan says, when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose. But if you have two stations in a market in the same format, and they're both battling for the same 4 share, then it's hard to take chances. Every song could cause the listeners to leave, and that's bad. So that's when you end up with risk-free radio. But the circumstances dictate where that happens. It doesn't happen everywhere, and there are still places where risks take place. You just have to look for them, and that requires some risk on your part.

The fact is there were lots of radio stations in 1968 that didn't take any risks either. Lots of stations who just looked at Cash Box, saw what Sklar was doing, and just duplicated his music choices. That is the untold story in a lot of markets. How many guys just goose-stepped along with the leader? Lots. What makes one leader better than another? His track record. And it still comes down to earning the right to make those decisions. And then knowing you're still just one person making decisions for others, but now those others have the ability to by pass your decisions, regardless of how gutsy or well-intentioned, and play what THEY like, even if it's Stairway To Heaven. or Achy Breaky Heart.
 
JohnJax said:
The Big A, why am I not surprised that you have taken a point of my argument to minimize what I was really trying to say. We all realize it is not 1968. What I am talking about is local decisions and giving those in charge latitude to perhaps not play everything that is on that corporate approved playlist or to tweak here and there to represent local flavor.

While there are some companies with a micromanagement attitude to programming, in most cases music is locally selected by the listeners via local music testing. Even in the present economy, there are a couple of dozen companies that do music tests... and that means that the decisions are made neither by the PD nor by a corporate person.

Sure, corporate programmers assist in getting maximum value from tests, often in the form of tabulating lists of the songs that have and have not tested, so if a station is long on titles and short on AMT time, they can rationalize about what needs to be tested and what has a really low chance of passing; a song that fails in 20 other markets will likely not pass in "my" market.

What I'm saying isn't really radical. It's one size fits all and this is the creation of what amounts to the few making decisions that clearly are not always correct. Turn on the radio and listen. What you hear is the result of decisions made - pure and simple.

What I hear are the songs that are really hits... knowing that within a specific format, the local and regional differences will be slight. A hit is a hit is a hit. Same goes for stiffs.

WABC had to earn its standing and they worked for every listener they had. When the PD we both speak of came to the station in the early 60's, WABC was down in the ratings and far behind the other rockers in town. They didn't become #1 overnight and you know that. I can go into specifics as to how they grew year after year but for the sake of this arguement, it was because creativity and what was at the time, new ways of doing things weren't stiffled - they were supported.

WABC won initially not by being different but by being better. Once they won, they were the 800 lb. gorilla and could do some more venturesome things... mostly to tweek the competitors who could not take the risks.

The strategy of being better and setting yourself, later, apart from competitors is valid today in station-to-station battles, but radio is not the only music and audio entertainment delivery vehicle today. Delivery options require the same strategies or "radio" (whatever that means today) is dead.
 
David,

You say that PUR was never 25% in a daypart. In what market? Got any links to back that up? I've got markets that demonstrate that very thing - recently. You make sweeping statements with no attribution, yet we're supposed to take them as gospel?

If I had the time, I'd love to do a spreadsheet on audience rating points over the last 20 years. Not share - ratings. For the entire day, and per daypart. Want to bet that radio rating points are down over the last 20 years? Oh, I know, they weren't accurate anyway because they weren't PPM ratings. Too bad all those advertisers spent all that money based on inaccurate information for all those years.

TheBigA said:
The only difference is you want that person to be at the station instead of somewhere else. The problem is that it doesn't matter where that person is. He can be locally, he can be regionally, he can be a consultant, or he can be national. The bottom line is that it's still one person making decisions that affect the listeners, and THEY don't care. "Local flavor" is a misnomer.

That's exactly the attitude that JohnJax is talking about. The fact is that somebody with boots on the ground in a market can better determine the likelihood of a record becoming a hit in that market than anybody else. I've seen consultants come in to a northeastern market, pull all the Springsteen, and replace it with Journey. Guess where the consultant was from? East coast or west coast? Yeah, both groups had hits, but people in the northeast sure identify with one more than the other.

As far as music testing is concerned, GIGO applies. Badly run tests yield bad results. Selection of music to be tested, the type of testing, and the sample size all impact the results. Add questionable methodology for selecting testing pools, and you've got even more problems with the results. All current testing does is refocus the existing - and shrinking - audience. It does noting to attract new audiences, or retrieve people who've fled radio because of stale, narrow playlists and endless repetition.
 
SirRoxalot said:
You say that PUR was never 25% in a daypart. In what market? Got any links to back that up? I've got markets that demonstrate that very thing - recently. You make sweeping statements with no attribution, yet we're supposed to take them as gospel?

I went back and did a 4 book average on the year 2000, which was pre-iPod and pre-Satellite and for which electronic data is available as opposed to second hand stuff. Persons 12+, PUR rating by daypart.

LA AMD 23.6, MD 23.7, PMD 19.9
NY AMD 24.3, MD 24.3, PMD 20.0

Moving to a lower tier, and just using Spring, 2000

San Diego 21.4, 20.4, 17.1
Las Vegas 21.6, 23.9, 18.2

From a paper book, Spring 1991
LA AMD 24.9, MD 23.7, PMD 20.1

At this point, I think generalization can be used to say that, while AM drive approached a quarter of the universe using radio, even pre-consolidation and pre-mass market Internet, the 6 A - 7 P PUR was well below 25% in radio-crazy LA, and lower still in most other markets.

If I had the time, I'd love to do a spreadsheet on audience rating points over the last 20 years. Not share - ratings. For the entire day, and per daypart. Want to bet that radio rating points are down over the last 20 years?

Yes, ratings are down but ratings, share and AQH (all being the same number expressed differently) are derivitives, since Arbitron does not measure any of those three things... they calculate them. Cume is basically flat, and TSL is down. It's amazing it is not down more, considering the plethora of entertainment options now available. In fact, the biggest declines in TSL were in the 1989-1995 period, and many of us think that it was methodology based... the increasing use of answering machines, cooperation refusal, etc., and not as much radio per se.

Oh, I know, they weren't accurate anyway because they weren't PPM ratings. Too bad all those advertisers spent all that money based on inaccurate information for all those years.

Advertisers knew exactly what they got from a diary based survey, which is why they pushed for the PPM. Radio certainly had little interest in increasing costs of ratings by 60%!

Those of us who had done monitoring of in home behaviour via a variety of methodologies knew that those 6 AM to 9 AM entries for the morning show were bogus. We'd start by finding that the alarm went off at 6, but the person pushed snooze twice... bye-bye 20 minutes. And through the whole morning, it turns out that listening was about 25% of what the diary said.

That's exactly the attitude that JohnJax is talking about. The fact is that somebody with boots on the ground in a market can better determine the likelihood of a record becoming a hit in that market than anybody else. I've seen consultants come in to a northeastern market, pull all the Springsteen, and replace it with Journey. Guess where the consultant was from? East coast or west coast? Yeah, both groups had hits, but people in the northeast sure identify with one more than the other.

You know, there are bad managers in every field. Start with CitiBank and work your way down through Chrysler and Linens 'n Things... I've never personally seen a conslutant dictate the playlist, but I suppose it happens. Usually, consultants help to make local testing as effective as it can be and go from there.

As far as music testing is concerned, GIGO applies. Badly run tests yield bad results. Selection of music to be tested, the type of testing, and the sample size all impact the results. Add questionable methodology for selecting testing pools, and you've got even more problems with the results. All current testing does is refocus the existing - and shrinking - audience. It does noting to attract new audiences, or retrieve people who've fled radio because of stale, narrow playlists and endless repetition.

Most stations, or at least the good ones, test way beyond the library they play. They test what-if's, burnouts that have rested, other station's cuts, other market's cuts, etc. The research company uses a competent local recruiter with lots of respondent validation and data cleansing. Replication has shown decades ago that around 80 persons is all you need to get a fully duplicable result within the margin of acceptable error for test implementation.

All testing does is ask a projectable random sample of users and, often, potential users of a station if they want to hear a song or not. That seems almost democratic, in fact.
 
MacArthur Park.,well jocks did appreciate a bathroom break.
I question how many "regional hits" there are when people can share files with their out of town cousins and friends across the country. We don't live in isolated enclaves anymore.
Rosalie Trombley did make the music decisions for CKLW, even while having to work with Can Con. I'll point out that every Top 40 and A/C station in the Great Lakes region was following her lead. At a very small station within that footprint, we would get the occasional request for a Cancon song, and someone from CKLW helped us get a copy of Eugene Smith's remake of "Freight Train".
Having said that, I'm not convinced that there's any salvation for radio in local hits
 
And before we get too nostalgic about the way radio once "made the hits", maybe we should consider "MacArthur Park" itself--I mean, I like the song (it's Jimmy Webb, how can you argue against it), and can appreciate how it made Top 40 magical; but we're talking about something that's accrued a reputation for being overblown musical kitsch. It made sense in its time; but, look, as a specifically "radio breakthrough" thing, it's up there with "In The Year 2525" and "Tie A Yellow Ribbon" and "Seasons In The Sun". Just because the system which produced such smashes feels fresh-like-yesterday to you/us doesn't mean it's stood the test of time--in fact, consider that said system is perhaps as dated and relevant to today's needs as the Nehru jacket and the polyester leisure suit.

Compare the system which produced an enduring smash like Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon": based by and large on a slow yet sure build via FM radio and word-of-mouth, Top 40 didn't factor in except through "Money" being a token hit single. Better and more fitting for the long-term health of the music in question--and more relevant to 2010 realities.

Likewise with the emergence of disco: if its legacy has endured, it's no thanks to the Leisure Suit Larry squares who all but ruined the music on Top 40's behalf. And later still, we get to further scenarios like dork yokel DJs pumping their fists to "We Built This City", or using Open House Party as some kind of cultural barometer on behalf of Roxette or the "December 1963 (Oh What A Night)" remix. Extending that so-called "MacArthur Park"-breakthrough magic well past the sell-by date--do we really want to boost that as an ideal anymore? Sure, it may sound like a romantic fantasy to old-time radio sentimentalists, but the under-30s are rolling their eyes at you, even those who don't mind "MacArthur Park" and Jimmy Webb in and of themselves...
 
That's right. Songs we may or may not like are really personal and a reason the old radio dial to today's click of a mouse or a push of a button on our car's steering wheel get quite a work out. When independent thinkers literally all over the country went with their gut and tried something no one else was doing, the impacts felt were far more reaching than in just was experienced at one particular radio station. There were times it literally changed the direction of music itself, created a culture shift and literally gave the people a national music.

While we are waxing nostalgic, that very WABC PD and his team who were the so-called music experts actually voted down the Beatles as something viable just 4 years prior to "MacArthur Park" fame. Now fast-forward to today and transform that decision, even call it that power to say the late Rick Sklar represented a major corporation such as Clear Channel and word was out on the street that he wasn't going with a certain singer or group. Like sheep, many others follow but my friends potentially look at how much could be lost. Luckily for us there wasn't a concentration of power in the few. The Beatles caught on because there were those who took a chance and used their skills that many once had in radio to make that call. Without the Beatles, there would not have been a British Invasion. Regardless of how you may feel of that time and place, I take the position that music on both sides of the Atlantic for a decade was just one incredible creative wave. And yes, MacArthur Park was right up there too along with songs we rarely hear because a value judgement of the powerful deems them unworthy of airplay.

It wouldn't be the first time those in the know position themselves to know better than the public. IMHO, radio is so out of touch. There are exceptions and while I can't listen to everything, I place WCBS-FM up there for at least putting fear aside and occasionally play cuts from artists long considered taboo by the experts - like Barry Manilow or heaven's forbid - even music before that line of demarcation some genius came up with that nothing will ever be heard from again if it was popular before the mid 60's. Today, many of us have our iPods loaded with lots of music variety and no lines of demarcation. The few running things just don't get it and as I keep saying, turn on the radio and while there is always an exception like CBS-FM, most radio is very much out of touch. And despite all the stats that say this or that, radio is a bore and we have the few to thank for that.
 
The problem is that radio cannot be an individuak iPod. If indeed people want obscure music, a mix of every possible genre including Carribean polka, you'll never find enough consensus to build a format around it.
 
No way am I talking about obscure music when I speak variety.There's a lot of hit music we don't hear because a major consulting firm or a power-broker has decided the fate of the song or artist. It can be based on research, sure. But really, the problem with some research is that response depends on how questions are asked in the first place or in what the participant thinks the response should be.

Back to Barry for just a moment. He's not an artist heard in power-rotation on CBS FM but consider this. You can't deny many of his songs were huge hits. Ever attend one of his concerts? I have and over the decades I saw him 3 times. Each time - packed houses with fans from the very young to yes, even the very old. Radio frequently doesn't make choices based on actual behavior but rather perceived opinion. Let me explain - actual behavior is money spent both in record sales and concerts and even downloads or Youtube plays. This demonstrates preferences. Perceived response is when some guy in a survey says no way would I listen to Manilow. But then in the privacy of his world, who really knows. A lot is at stake, it's not a perfect science. And my point has been all along, the experts can't really know everything nor do they get every decision right. Because there are so few of them making these decisions, you get what you get. The health of radio depends on this scenario and you wonder why many of us keep trying to address this problem with the thousands and thousands of posts on this board. It's time for some listening. Even the experts are human after all and perfect, they are not.
 
You bring up the "British Invasion, and the fact is that it came at the expense of American acts. Timothy White's book points out that the British invasion, as well as the country culture movement, effectively killed the career of Elvis Presley. The way he made himself relevant again was the 1968 NBC TV special, and a song called Burning Love. I was reading the story of White Whale records, home to The Turtles. This was basically a one-act label. As they went, so went the success of the label. There's a new book out by Tommy James about Roulette Records and the Mob. All very interesting stuff.

But let's talk about RISK for a second, and the basic idea of radio people taking risks with songs. The fact is that this isn't where the real risk takes place. This is akin to something the people in Las Vegas call "gambling with house money." In other words, the PD only has his reputation and job at risk. The station owner puts the entire station at risk. A PD adds the Steve Miller song "Jet Airliner" with the line "funky shit goin' down," and it puts the license of the station at risk. Or a PD adds a bunch of depressing songs by Lori McKenna to the playlist, and listeners tune out. That may seem to be risky on the part of the PD, but he isn't the one who loses money. The sales staff is stuck trying to sell this station to advertisers, and the owner is stuck with declining sales.


Real risk involves putting your own money in play. Some consultants, looking to attract business, will tell a GM they'll work for free, but want a share of any increased revenues. That's putting your own money at risk. Webmasters are getting bonuses based on increased revenues for the station web site. This is putting your own money at risk. My point is that it's easy to play with house money. It's easy to talk about taking musical or formatic risks with someone else's money. It's a whole lot different when it's YOUR money that's on the table. Radio programming isn't an entitlement. Perhaps too many programmers saw it that way, and made decisions that suited them rather than their listeners, their management, or their owners. Forgive those programmers who may seem to be managing boring or bland stations if they're delivering results. Because results speak louder than anything else. If some zero-audience station in Peoria played MacArthur Park, no one would have cared. What made the difference was it was the #1 station in the country. That is why we care 40 years later.
 
DavidEduardo said:
SirRoxalot said:
You say that PUR was never 25% in a daypart. In what market? Got any links to back that up? I've got markets that demonstrate that very thing - recently. You make sweeping statements with no attribution, yet we're supposed to take them as gospel?

I went back and did a 4 book average on the year 2000, which was pre-iPod and pre-Satellite and for which electronic data is available as opposed to second hand stuff. Persons 12+, PUR rating by daypart.
LA AMD 23.6, MD 23.7, PMD 19.9
NY AMD 24.3, MD 24.3, PMD 20.0
Moving to a lower tier, and just using Spring, 2000
San Diego 21.4, 20.4, 17.1
Las Vegas 21.6, 23.9, 18.2
From a paper book, Spring 1991
LA AMD 24.9, MD 23.7, PMD 20.1

At this point, I think generalization can be used to say that, while AM drive approached a quarter of the universe using radio, even pre-consolidation and pre-mass market Internet, the 6 A - 7 P PUR was well below 25% in radio-crazy LA, and lower still in most other markets.

Huh? You said that PUR never approached 25%. YOUR OWN NUMBERS show LA AM Drive at 24.9. You show several dayparts at 24+. That’s not "approaching 25% in a daypart"? I never said "25% 6A - 7P". And those are the markets YOU chose – not one of dozens of others that are STILL “radio mad” to this day. The problem is that those who are “radio mad” are getting older and older. The younger generation isn’t getting on board because there’s damn little content for them to get excited about. And it’s not because of technology. FB demographics show that the largest segment of their audience is 35-54, and 55+ is the fastest growing segment.

DavidEduardo said:
SirRoxalot said:
If I had the time, I'd love to do a spreadsheet on audience rating points over the last 20 years. Not share - ratings. For the entire day, and per daypart. Want to bet that radio rating points are down over the last 20 years?

Yes, ratings are down but ratings, share and AQH (all being the same number expressed differently) are derivitives, since Arbitron does not measure any of those three things... they calculate them. Cume is basically flat, and TSL is down. It's amazing it is not down more, considering the plethora of entertainment options now available. In fact, the biggest declines in TSL were in the 1989-1995 period, and many of us think that it was methodology based... the increasing use of answering machines, cooperation refusal, etc., and not as much radio per se.

So, if cume is basically flat, the problem is that listeners aren’t finding what they want to hear on the radio. They’re still sampling it, but they’re not staying with it because the programming is LACKING.

Technology has been around since people bought 45s in the ‘60s. Cassettes, CDs, and MP3 players have all been “the death of radio”. Cable TV music channels were “the death of radio”. Satellite radio was “the death of radio”. The biggest killer of radio is BAD PROGRAMMING. The loss of immediacy, and the resulting loss of the one-to-one relationship with the listener are the two biggest obstacles to good programming.

And, Gr8, your penchant for taking discussions to the point of the ridiculous (statements like "If indeed people want obscure music, a mix of every possible genre including Carribean polka, you'll never find enough consensus to build a format around it.") weaken your point. Nobody has ever advocated such a format, or would.
 
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