Optimod 8200 - HELP!!

[AndyGregory]

I'm in the UK running the 8200 with version 3.0 software. What would you suggest doing when processing for maximum loudness??

I've currently got the Optimod at what is pushing on for full whack and the loudness is almost there. Considering there's almost no dynamic range left, the music audio doesn't actually sound too squashed and holds together very well given that this is very aggressive processing.

There are a few big problems at present which are proving to be quite annoying. I've pasted the settings I'm working from (below). Yesterday I was using a low bass boost of 2P+4. The bass was very heavy, booming and thunderous. I've never heard anything like it on FM before. It was certainly attention grabbing but quite intense and certainly fatiguing. I changed to 2P+2 today and have found that the bass is slightly less heavy but it is much more intrusive of the mid band. The bass sounds heavy, dull and muffled - it sounds like it needs to be reduced and compressed (tightened).

Yesterday I was using a Multiband drive of 18 with band 4o/p at +1 and band 5o/p at +2, the brilliance was set at +6. The higher frequencies were tizzing away and very annoying to listen to. I've since reduced band 4 to +0.5 and band 5 to +1.0, the brilliance is at +4.5 and the Multiband drive is currently on 25. The top end has almost disappeared completely now.

I've achieved this level of loudness by using aggressive AGC, a Multiband drive of 25 and the fast release. The problem with this is that a huge amount of low level noise in music is being sucked up, newsreaders breaths are severely exaggerated and jocks headphones are constantly feeding back.

The closest I got to achieving the sound I wanted was with the attached settings but with the 2P+4 low bass boost rather than 2P+2. The booming bass was the only real problem. I don't really want to back off the Multiband drive or AGC because I don't want to lose any loudness. What's lacking at the moment is openness. I believe that if I can sort the bass out, then the distortion will be reduced and the higher frequencies will have some room to breathe.

I'm finding it really hard - the slightest change to one parameter causes the whole thing to fall apart at this level of loudness. My intention is to make maximum impact on the dial in terms of loudness but retain as much as openness, depth and clarity as possible. There is of course the added benefit of making the station more listenable on the fringe of the TSA.

Parameter Setting

AGC drive 13
AGC release dB/Sec 10
Multiband Drive 25
Multiband Release Fast
Multiband clipping -3.8
Low Bass Boost 2P+2
Mid Bass Boost +1dB
Presence +1.5dB
Brilliance +4.5dB
Final Clip Drive -0.2dB
Gate Threshold -40dB
HF Clipping +1.5
DJ Bass Boost ON
Bass Coupling 40%
Down Expander Threshold OFF
30Hz HPF ON
AGC On/Off ON
Bass Clip Threshold -5.2dB
Phase Rotator In
B1 O/P +0.8dB
B2 O/P +0.5dB
B3 O/P 0.0dB
B4 O/P +0.5dB
B5 O/P +1.0dB
B3+4 Coupling 5

 

[wgliradio]

I'm in the UK running the 8200 with version 3.0 software. What would you suggest doing when processing for maximum loudness??

I've currently got the Optimod at what is pushing on for full whack and the loudness is almost there. Considering there's almost no dynamic range left, the music audio doesn't actually sound too squashed and holds together very well given that this is very aggressive processing.

There are a few big problems at present which are proving to be quite annoying. I've pasted the settings I'm working from (below). Yesterday I was using a low bass boost of 2P+4. The bass was very heavy, booming and thunderous. I've never heard anything like it on FM before. It was certainly attention grabbing but quite intense and certainly fatiguing. I changed to 2P+2 today and have found that the bass is slightly less heavy but it is much more intrusive of the mid band. The bass sounds heavy, dull and muffled - it sounds like it needs to be reduced and compressed (tightened).

Yesterday I was using a Multiband drive of 18 with band 4o/p at +1 and band 5o/p at +2, the brilliance was set at +6. The higher frequencies were tizzing away and very annoying to listen to. I've since reduced band 4 to +0.5 and band 5 to +1.0, the brilliance is at +4.5 and the Multiband drive is currently on 25. The top end has almost disappeared completely now.

I've achieved this level of loudness by using aggressive AGC, a Multiband drive of 25 and the fast release. The problem with this is that a huge amount of low level noise in music is being sucked up, newsreaders breaths are severely exaggerated and jocks headphones are constantly feeding back.

The closest I got to achieving the sound I wanted was with the attached settings but with the 2P+4 low bass boost rather than 2P+2. The booming bass was the only real problem. I don't really want to back off the Multiband drive or AGC because I don't want to lose any loudness. What's lacking at the moment is openness. I believe that if I can sort the bass out, then the distortion will be reduced and the higher frequencies will have some room to breathe.

I'm finding it really hard - the slightest change to one parameter causes the whole thing to fall apart at this level of loudness. My intention is to make maximum impact on the dial in terms of loudness but retain as much as openness, depth and clarity as possible. There is of course the added benefit of making the station more listenable on the fringe of the TSA.

Parameter Setting

AGC drive 13
AGC release dB/Sec 10
Multiband Drive 25
Multiband Release Fast
Multiband clipping -3.8
Low Bass Boost 2P+2
Mid Bass Boost +1dB
Presence +1.5dB
Brilliance +4.5dB
Final Clip Drive -0.2dB
Gate Threshold -40dB
HF Clipping +1.5
DJ Bass Boost ON
Bass Coupling 40%
Down Expander Threshold OFF
30Hz HPF ON
AGC On/Off ON
Bass Clip Threshold -5.2dB
Phase Rotator In
B1 O/P +0.8dB
B2 O/P +0.5dB
B3 O/P 0.0dB
B4 O/P +0.5dB
B5 O/P +1.0dB
B3+4 Coupling 5

What you want is really not possible with this box. The 8200 will never allow you to have punch and clarity and loudness. It was a very early design and an attempt to do digital... and if you're up against virtually any other processor (including the 8100, which was 1000 times better), the 8200 will lose (except maybe the Aphex 2020). If you don't have the money to upgrade to an Omnia ONE or something similar, you should set the 8200 for as clean as you can get it with as much loudness as it will tolerate.

I would start by slowing down the Multiband Release and adjusting the Multiband Drive. 25 seems like a really high number if I remember my 8200 settings. Slow down the Multiband Release settings a tick or two.

You can't undo distortion, you can always crack up the volume knob.

 

[gtomas]

My intention is to make maximum impact on the dial in terms of loudness but retain as much as openness, depth and clarity as possible.

As wgliradio pointed out, you can't have your cake and eat it. What you're trying to achieve is contradictory and therefore not possible, not just with 8200 but with any processor.

There is of course the added benefit of making the station more listenable on the fringe of the TSA.

You won't get much (if any) improvement in the fringe areas, you're just deceiving yourself. Except of increased loudness + distortion, there aren't any benefits in pushing any processors that hard. Consider the consequences to your audience who might not (and most likely don't) share your preference of dense, squashed and distorted sound and therefore might choose another option on the dial...

My advice - lower the drives to the AGC and multi-band (driving the multi-band hard is rarely ever a good choice, if you want depth and consistency), slow down the AGC, reconsider the output mix settings (another thing that is rarely a good solution).


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[BROADCAST]

Andy,
What type of music are you playing,also where are you?

You need to back off on the agc and multiband drive,as suggested,also i would set the multiband clipping to be 0db, -3.8db is too low a threshold.

 

[The F Mister]

Broadcast, you are also situated in the UK right? What is the general radiosound like? I was in London last october and found it quit loud/harsh to say the least.

 

[AndyGregory]

Andy,
What type of music are you playing,also where are you?

You need to back off on the agc and multiband drive,as suggested,also i would set the multiband clipping to be 0db, -3.8db is too low a threshold.

I am in North Wales broadcasting to England and North Wales.

We are a CHR station playing mostly chart music with 80's and 90's mixed in.

 

[whit979]

Andy,

Start with the JAZZ preset, then punch in these settings and see what you think. Good luck.

Final Clip: +1.0
HF Clipping: + .5
DJ Bass Boost: Off
Bass Coupling: Off (0%)
Down Expand: Off
30 hz HPF: On
AGC: On
Bass Clip: -5.0
Phase Rotator: Off
Band 1: 0.0
Band 2: -1.0
Band 3: 0.0
Band 4: +0.5
Band 5: 0.0
Band 3+4: 25
AGC Drive: 10
AGC Release: 9
Multi-Band Drive: 13
Multi-Band release: MSLOW
Multi-Band Clip: 0.0
Low Band bass boost: +4
Mid bass boost: +2
Presence: +1.0
Brilliance: +1.0
Gate: - 40

 

[Ed B]

This is a good starting point for the 8200 version 3
Should give you a nice open and loud sound. If you are using a composite STL you might want to install a composite clipper at the transmitter this will take care of any type of overshoot from the STL and gain a few dB of loudness. Just don't slam the clipper to hard. You will sound better if you could install a external AGC and disable the AGC in the 8200. Maybe a compellor or Ariane or the CRL unit. Happy tweeking.


Final Clip: +1.5
HF Clipping: 0.0
DJ Bass Boost: Off
Bass Coupling: 0
Down Expand: Off
30 hz HPF: On
AGC: On Or (Off If you have a AGC ahead of the 8200) In my case I have a CRL SGC-800 ahead of the 8200
Bass Clip: -5.2
Phase Rotator: On
Band 1: 0.0
Band 2: +0.8
Band 3 0.0
Band 4 +2.3
Band 5 0.0
Band 3+4 Coupling 15
AGC Drive: 10
AGC Release 0.5
Multi-Band Drive: 15
Multi-Band release: MSlow
Multi-Band Clip: +1.2
Low Band bass boost: 2P +2
Mid bass boost: +6
Presence: +1.5
Brilliance: +1.0
Gate: -44

 

[BROADCAST]

Hi Andy,
Guess what,i live in North Wales,between Prestatyn and Holywell,small world!
What station,The Buzz/Coast fm,or Dee 106.3?

F Mister,
Yes the audio does sound harsh,after numerous stations changed their processing several years ago now,they sound thin and harsh.
For instance KEY103 sounds awful,and Radio City sounds hardly any better!

I will assume the processors are set up badly,i much preferred the audio from these stations between 1988-95 era.

 

[AndyGregory]

Hi Andy,
Guess what,i live in North Wales,between Prestatyn and Holywell,small world!
What station,The Buzz/Coast fm,or Dee 106.3?

It's Marcher Sound, although I have configured the processing for Coast and Buzz (part of GCap).

Where do you work the BBC? E-mail me if you like - address is on my profile.

 

[stace]

I know it's not particularly constructive when people say what you have won't do the job you want!

My experience with the 8200

Don't use too much 'brilliance' it over hypes the high end, if you're having trouble with muddy bass, it's probably too much boost in band one (below 100hz). Back that back to 0 in the mixer. The heavy breathing and excessive 'suck up' is because the AGC is way too fast. AGC is only a leveller, in your case its doing alot of the processing work, I would slow it to at least 1 or 2 dB/s

my settings from memory were very close to Ed B, although I did use medium fast release on the MBand.

I also had another 8200 which used an Ariane at the studio and 8200 at the txr site and used faster release times on the multiband but only driving it at about 9dB. Using it more as a limiter. This setup sounded very nice (dispite most peoples hate for the 8200)

 

[rrsounds]

Andy,
I would start by trying a much higher "Gate" level than you are using.
That will tend to mitigate the breathing, and also add a "duty cycle" effect on the release, slowing it down overall while allowing it to work quickly when it does work.

Also, keep in mind that openness and fast release are generally opposite sides of the same coin. You may have to make a compromise for one or the other.

Kind Regards,
David Reaves

I'm in the UK running the 8200 with version 3.0 software. What would you suggest doing when processing for maximum loudness??
<snip>

 

[Ed B]

Andy I have had very good luck here with the 8200 for many years and getting the sound I wanted out of it. The 8200 is now my back up chain as when we went digital I had to upgrade to a more modern processor to do the job that I wanted to do.
If you stick to the settings and information that everyone posted I think you will do very well with it.