Optimod 8200 Question

[gettinbyagain]

For all of you processing guru's out there. I have an 8200 set pretty well for a top 40 format station, however, I would like to get a little more bass "punch" out of it. I have plenty of mid bass, and a bit of rumble, but I would love that KICK from the kick drum to punch through. Any ideas?
Thanks!

 

[Seattleradiodude]

Get an Omnia. ;D

For that Top 40 "Punch" it really is hard to beat the Omnia sound

 

[NoTimeForSleep]

Tried time and time again on one I have, only way I could do it was to upgrade one station to a newer processor. Processing power of then to now is not the same.

 

[listner1]

I get great bass with an 8200. I also have an 8500 and I really like the 8200 better. The attack on Band 1 (bass) could be a hair faster as it will distort a bit until the limiter band pulls it down, then it cleans up. The 8500 will go louder, but when you drive the final clipper hard enought to beat an 8200, the voices get distored and the whole tonal quality changes.

Anyway, set the bass bost to 3p +4 or +6 (the 3p settings are AFTER you scroll though the 2p settings). I have the bass clipping about -5.2. If you run that closer to zero, you'll get more bass, but it also distorts a little more. Set the mid bass boost to 0. (Don't boost that at all) You also may want to set the mix level on that band up a tiny bit.

Also note that if you drive the multiband too hard you'll loose some punch. I run the multiband drive about 14. Also, if you drive the final clipper too hard you will also loose some punch. I run mine about +1.0 to +2.0 depending on the station.

 

[chriscollins]

listner1 gave you some good suggestions. After following some of those, you will probably like the sound better, but be unhappy with the loudness. An 8200 with a composite clipper out at the transmitter can still be a decent combination.

I have an 8200 and an 8300 (our 8200 is now our 'backup' box). I think the 8300 to the 8200 is almost like comparing a stock 8100 with an 8100/XT2 Combo.

 

[stha]

You can get more warmth from the AGC Bass Coupling (between 50% and 75%), then you can try a lower value in the bass clipper section (between -3dB and -1dB). The parent preset is also very important because each preset have some hidden controls. If your unit is not running the ultimate v3.0 firmware, try to upgrade it because you will be able to set the output mix at your taste (not sure if Orban still provide the modules). You can also add some pre-processing...

 

[gettinbyagain]

thanks all! I will try it and report back!

 

[mp3RadioGuy]

Any suggestions on the 8200 setup are determined by the original preset and the "less-more" setting. Without knowing your original starting preset and your "less-more" setting these suggestions mean nothing. Many folks run their "less-more" setting way to fast on an 8200 and that will kill your bass punch.

 

[WNTIRadio]

If you have V3.0, try starting with the "Rock Medium" preset, "less-more" set where they have it. Go into full control, and run the AGC around 5 or 6dB/sec. Drive it about -10. Drive the multi-band so you have no more than 10dB of gain reduction on any one band, and run it on "Medium-Slow". MB clip at 2.0-3.0, and keep the bass coupling low, around 20. Run the bass clipper at -5.0 to -4.5, and set the bass eq for 3p 6dB boost. You can then play with the band mix controls, but don't go too far beyond +.5 on any one, or it will start to get nasty. You probably don't want to go beyond +2 for the final clipper either, as it isn't distortion controlled... guess they ran out of DSP power in 1991 to do that.

You can get a decent bass sound, and a relatively clean sound from those settings. It won't be an 8500 or an 8100/XT2 but it will hold its own.

Orban still sells the V3.0 chips, if your box isn't 3.0, I would highly recommend the upgrade.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Don't forget that 1/2 of hearing the "kick" from the kick drum is in the midrange, where the "click" is... keep the midrange open as well, don't use super fast attack times, and you'll be surprised how that kick drum will cut through!

 

[listner1]

Are there adjustable attack times on an 8200? If so, I don't know where they are.

 

[WNTIRadio]

No, unfortunately. All you have is slow, med-slow, med-fast and fast on the release time on the multi-band. I'm sure that the less-more control slows other things down a bit in the attack section, but you don't have any of those controls broken out. Some presets have different attacks on them, but those are hidden controls. That's why I recommend going med-slow on the multiband, it will stay more musical and clean, and you can gain some of the loudness in the MB clipper and the final clipper. Just don't expect to stomp on 8500's (and soon to be 8600's) or O6's (and 11's) with it. The 8200 is like an old car, it will get you down the road, but not as fast as the 500hp Mustang next to you at the light.

 

[stace]

Alot of people don't like this processor but it is still one of my favourites. It's not very transparent in that you can hear it working. But I like that. I havent used one for a while, but would like to have one. Infact one day I think I'll just buy one to play with at home.

Try driving the multiband at 15dB, and set the multiband clip at +1.0 but dont drive any other clipper too hard. I like the effect the multiband clipping has on the bassline. It makes it sound punchy, smooth and round. I know the garble effect on the bassline when you get alot of bass energy all of a sudden but at these settings it shouldn't be noticeable. If so try increasing the bass coupling (a good setting is 30%) and turning the DJ bass boost OFF.
Bass boost should be no more than 3 or so, and definatly try turning off the high pass filter. They say you can't notice anything below it, but it takes out that soft deep bass that you can more feel than hear. It's usually turned on in most presets in the 8200

Let me know how you get on.

 

[satech]

I kinda miss the 8200's infamous "burble bass." It certainly wasn't transparent sounding, but at least it kept the lows from clipping the heck out of the midrange, like the other "O" box loves to do.

 

[cgould]

(snip) but at least it kept the lows from clipping the heck out of the midrange, like the other "O" box loves to do.

That's just like saying yeah I love the way my automatic transmission car drives. Gearshift transitions are absolutely seamless. I hate stick shifts because those transmissions just love to grind away every time I need to shift gears.

???

Both statements are true only if you don't grasp the tech involved.

The key is understanding the platform, and know how to use it to keep things like this from biting you in the booty. Other processor boxes make it really hard to have bad results no matter how you jack around on the controls -- that's nice to a degree, but it really limits you in terms of really taking things to the edge, and really standing out. So if you go jerking around on the controls on an Omnia, and expect it to save you from yourself, then you're going to get into trouble real fast. That's then you experience clippy mids from bass activity, etc.

While I wasn't involved in the design of the Omnia6 processors, I do know that a lot of care has gone into making sure this is not an issue for most users. This is especially true of the Omnia6EXi. REALLY Old software versions of the Omnia units were a bit tricky to tame in this area, so if that is what you were working with, then you really need to get the latest and greatest.

If you have a low cost version of an Omnia, and are trying to match the loudness of top of the line units, then this area will be a problem for you too, as you are most likely exceeding the capabilities of the processor.

Again, understand the platform, and it will treat you well....

-C

 

[FFoti1]

I kinda miss the 8200's infamous "burble bass." It certainly wasn't transparent sounding, but at least it kept the lows from clipping the heck out of the midrange, like the other "O" box loves to do.

As the lead designer of the other "O" box, I can say it handles low frequencies - with regards to IM - no worse than processors from it's era, or before. If misadjusted, yes it can get into trouble, but then again, I've observed other processors that got into trouble if misused too.

BTW: The "burble bass" you refer to is bass induced IM distortion.

-Frank Foti

 

[stace]

I also wanted to comment on a previous post about the release time of the AGC and Multiband. The poster said to have a reasonably fast release time on the AGC and a Medium slow time on the multiband. I prefer the opposite. I would run the AGC as slow as possible, like 0.5dB/s and the multiband medium or medium fast. This gives the shiny, consistant sound of the big market stations. I don't think you should ever have the AGC working faster than the compressors then the limiters.

all the best

 

[gtomas]

I also wanted to comment on a previous post about the release time of the AGC and Multiband. The poster said to have a reasonably fast release time on the AGC and a Medium slow time on the multiband. I prefer the opposite. I would run the AGC as slow as possible, like 0.5dB/s and the multiband medium or medium fast. This gives the shiny, consistant sound of the big market stations. I don't think you should ever have the AGC working faster than the compressors then the limiters.

With Orban boxes I personally also prefer the slow AGC and faster MB release combination. It tends to give more consistent sound from cut to cut without the breathing effect of the AGC. This will have more limited operating range, meaning you have to be more careful with your levels, but a good DJ behind the board can really play against the processor which can sound excellent!

However, some people prefer the more noticeable action of the faster AGC release. It tends to correct levels more but also adds some breathing to the sound. Interestingly, what may be annoying to some, others actually prefer! If it's not obviously sucking up in pauses, then it must not be working enough! They may also like the more open sound and a bit more volume you get with the slow release time in the multiband.

Like we said before, it's all subjective


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[rrsounds]

I also wanted to comment on a previous post about the release time of the AGC and Multiband. The poster said to have a reasonably fast release time on the AGC and a Medium slow time on the multiband. I prefer the opposite. I would run the AGC as slow as possible, like 0.5dB/s and the multiband medium or medium fast. This gives the shiny, consistant sound of the big market stations. I don't think you should ever have the AGC working faster than the compressors then the limiters.

There are no hard-and-fast rules in processing, but I like to think of a kind of elementary 'funnel' principle:

1) Raw audio is processed by the AGC, the initial stage having the widest dynamic control range. Its ratio and release time is the least aggressive of all stages.

2) As you go through progressive stages, the control range can/should become smaller, the ratio tightened, and the release time sped up.

3) Ultimately, a final stage, which may be clipping, is used over the (hopefully!) narrowest dynamic control range, uses the tightest ratio (e.g., clipping = inf:1), the fastest release (clipping is "instantaneous"... however you want to define that, LOL).


Like I said, no set rules, but this general idea guides me because, if you are attempting to maximize processing control while minimizing artifacts, I think it makes sense. You see similar variations on this theme in most boxes. As always, YMMV.

Kind Regards,
David

 

[satech]

While I wasn't involved in the design of the Omnia6 processors, I do know that a lot of care has gone into making sure this is not an issue for most users. This is especially true of the Omnia6EXi. REALLY Old software versions of the Omnia units were a bit tricky to tame in this area, so if that is what you were working with, then you really need to get the latest and greatest.

In case it wasn't clear by the context, I was comparing 1992 Optimod technology (the 8200) to 1995 Omnia technology (their first digital model)... not to 2010 Omnia technology. Obvious the processing performance of both brands has improved tremendously since then!