Optimod

[oldiesstation]

> > I like my Turbo3.....it's the best value, under $3K,on the
>
> > market. The station owner likes it even more......that's
> > what really matters. But I'll say it again, Orban and
> > Ogonowski have the BEST ears.....Foti is a "New Yorker"
> and
> > bases his audio processing philosophy on NYC audio. Yep,
> he
> > makes one loud processor, but if you try to make it
> > "musical" you will fail.(Compared to ANY Optimod.)An Omnia
>
> > will never win ANY shootout based on quality, perceived or
>
> > measured.
> > P.S. The Unity was one fine audio processor.....that box
> WAS
> > VERY musical. I wish Foti would bring it back!!
> >
> Hi Guys!
>
> Need to chime in here a bit...
>
> First of all, I'm from Cleveland, but was lucky enough to
> work in NYC. So, I'm guess I'm a bit of an immigrant to "New
> York."
>
> Second: If you knew of the *MANY* A/B tests that have
> occured in Europe where the "golden ears" of state
> broadcasters have tested Omnia and Orban. These are the
> folks who go to great pains in processing evaluation. Much
> more involved than here in the States. We've WON more than
> 90% of those tests. These are not loudness comparisons, but
> quality. Yes, you can get Omnia loud, but you can also get
> it to sound VERY GOOD in the quaity area as well. I have to
> laugh, as it's tough to get a system to sound loud, and not
> all boxes can do that. But, if it sounds good loud, why
> would anyone think that you can't back it off enough to get
> it to offer high levels of quality?
>
> Third: Unity 2000, as we move forward, no reason why we
> couldn't create a Unity 2000 emulation. What eventually
> killed the Unity, was the electronics industry. Try sourcing
> some of those parts, as most of them aren't made anymore.
> But, I'll take your desire into consideration.
>
> -Frank Foti
> thanks Frank, maybe you could come up with a special Unity 2000 preset for the o3 t, that would make taylor eng happy.last posting from him said he was enjoying an adult drink as he was typing, heck must have been drinking thru a straw out of a flask..ha...this whole thread started off comparing that weak ass orban 2200 to the o3 turbo.that 2200 could not pull a prostitute off a toilet seat.whoops have to watch my old major market morning show jargon...i still like the smooth and open preset on the o3 turbo, sounds very musical and yes the listener's radio has a volume knob if it's not loud enough for them.thanks for a great product that won't tear your head off in the price point arena..

 

[Turntable]

> P.S. The Unity was one fine audio processor.....that box WAS
> VERY musical. I wish Foti would bring it back!!
>

You mean the Unity 2000i???

I have it on good authority that WDRC-FM in Hartford, CT had one for a while, and not only did it sound like absolute crap, but they couldn't hold the thing together for much more than a month at a time. IIRC they replaced the thing more than five times within a 3-month period! After that, they finally got one that didn't blow up on them, but it still sounded like garbage... I believe they now run the Aphex 2020 mkIII, and they sound decent. Not stunning, but very good.

If you want to hear a screamin' 2020, Check out Cumulus-owned WRKI in Brookfield/Danbury (classic rock). Pete's got that thing tricked out and it sounds phenomenal. He runs an Omnia-6 on sister station WDBY (Patterson, NY, AC) and it doesn't even come close. Granted, these are different genres and call for different measures, but I'd put a properly tuned 2020 against any Omnia (but notice I said "properly tuned"!!).

This is not meant to put down Mr. Foti or his product. I admit the Unity was pretty much a second-generation digital processor and was bound to have some issues. Frank, I respect your opinions and your product, I think it is a good product. But I feel that the Aphex 2020 is neglected and misunderstood in a world of Omnias and Optimods. It's as if nobody realizes there are other processors out there. Gee Wiz! Who woulda thunk it??

-A <P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>

 

[oldiesstation]

> > P.S. The Unity was one fine audio processor.....that box
> WAS
> > VERY musical. I wish Foti would bring it back!!
> >
>
> You mean the Unity 2000i???
>
> I have it on good authority that WDRC-FM in Hartford, CT had
> one for a while, and not only did it sound like absolute
> crap, but they couldn't hold the thing together for much
> more than a month at a time. IIRC they replaced the thing
> more than five times within a 3-month period! After that,
> they finally got one that didn't blow up on them, but it
> still sounded like garbage... I believe they now run the
> Aphex 2020 mkIII, and they sound decent. Not stunning, but
> very good.
>
> If you want to hear a screamin' 2020, Check out
> Cumulus-owned WRKI in Brookfield/Danbury (classic rock).
> Pete's got that thing tricked out and it sounds phenomenal.
> He runs an Omnia-6 on sister station WDBY (Patterson, NY,
> AC) and it doesn't even come close. Granted, these are
> different genres and call for different measures, but I'd
> put a properly tuned 2020 against any Omnia (but notice I
> said "properly tuned"!!).
>
> This is not meant to put down Mr. Foti or his product. I
> admit the Unity was pretty much a second-generation digital
> processor and was bound to have some issues. Frank, I
> respect your opinions and your product, I think it is a good
> product. But I feel that the Aphex 2020 is neglected and
> misunderstood in a world of Omnias and Optimods. It's as if
> nobody realizes there are other processors out there. Gee
> Wiz! Who woulda thunk it??
>
> WELL SPARKY, bring it on Frank and I would love that shoot out.had a 2020 before the omnia.no comparison.if WRKI is tricked out it's because they are running a modulation science's box in front of it.that dam 2020 was not loud enough for anything, and Tiny TIM, God rest his soul could pass more high's.stations sold those 2020 mark 3's for less that 1500.00 just to get rid of them..check the sales Omnia 1st, orban 2nd ,Aphex does not sell enough of those boxes to even get ranked...
>

 

[Turntable]

> My favorite combo for truly "High Definition" analog FM
> audio....
>
>
>
> Now THAT's a processing rack!
>

Indeed. Really neat old-school stuff. Thanks for sharing! Seriously, really sweet!

Now, Where's the Dorrough DAP??? <wink>

-A<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>

 

[oldiesstation]

> > My favorite combo for truly "High Definition" analog FM
> > audio....
> >
> >
> >
> > Now THAT's a processing rack!
> >
>
> Indeed. Really neat old-school stuff. Thanks for sharing!
> Seriously, really sweet!
>
> Now, Where's the Dorrough DAP???
>
> in the trash where it belongs , great box in it's time, but the architecture of processing has changed .software driven boxes is where it's at today.the dorrough loudness meter is still in circulation today is is a good unit.i used those dorrough's long time age.one A>M> processor that was hot was the Harris
MSP 100 (not the 95).it was expensive in 1979 5495.00..but was probably the best A M processor i have ever heard....talk about dial dominance......just ran over the ole optimod 9100 a....
>

 

[1290wgli]

Orban and
> Ogonowski have the BEST ears.....

Have you heard some of their presets? Bob can be one dimensional in his processing and I never really was a big fan of Ogonowski's boxes. They weren't my taste, even though others liked them.

> Foti is a "New Yorker" and
> bases his audio processing philosophy on NYC audio. Yep, he
> makes one loud processor, but if you try to make it
> "musical" you will fail.(Compared to ANY Optimod.)

Disagree here. While the O3 is not a loudness box, it is musical and functional for non competitive situations. The 4.5 and 6 can be musical and competitive.

> An Omnia
> will never win ANY shootout based on quality, perceived or
> measured.

There are two types of people who tweak audio processors

1) Those who think they can
2) Those who ACTUALLY can

I have played with enough of all the major boxes out there to know what can and cannot be done. All have strenghths and weaknesses but there is enough firepower to overcome and all are competent IF you buy the right box for the right situation. The O3 will never win a loudness war without alot of grunge, but it can be consistant and musical on lighter formats and educationals WHICH it was targeted for. The 2200 is also an "open" processor that is musical, however, may not be as consistant source to source as some would like (or loud enough). Again, for lighter based formats, and classical, it's fine. The 2300 is much improved and, with an Ariane, would be a really cool sounding airchain.

In the middle ground, the DSP-X is a very good budget design that is much more competitive IN MY OPINION than the entry level processors from Omnia or Orban. I can say this because I have tuned an O3 turbo and run it against a DSP-X which I do own. The DSP-X is more flexable and I personally think it sounds better all around, especially on voice. In many situations could easily be a major market processor with the right person tuning it. Like Orban, the factory presets are not really close, they are tuned more for UK's 50us pre-emphasis and the highs usually have to be radically adjusted from the factory starting points. It's not that hard once you get the hang of it. While it is not as feature rich as the O6 or the 8500, it also comes with a price tag $7000-$9000 less.

I was very impressed with the changes made to the Omega from Inovonics. It is now a VERY musical processor with probably, IMHO, the best built in AGC in ANY of the processors. Once again, in the Inovonics booth, the people from Inovonics had the box set much too agressive and was wondering if this "was it". I was happy to see that it could be relaxed while maintaing loudness, acquiring a sweet musical taste and without become illegal. This is possibly the FIRST digital processor I could live with WITHOUT running an external AGC.

The 8500 has one MAJOR problem... the menu structure SUCKS, for lack of a better term. The "joy stick" nonsense is not something to be proud of and is far from intuitive. I guess it had to look radically different to be deemed better. Also, the factory presets are nothing to write home about. Omnia has good starting points. With Orban, you have to drop back and punt. I have the same problem with the 1100 PC soundcard processor I have in my PC. The factory presets are a joke and not even close. NONE of them have any sizzle or warmth and sound honky. The oldies presets are especially bad and make the music sound dull. The classical "2 band purist" presets pump the audio, making the classical pieces sound unnatural (I created a band-coupled 5 band preset that doesn't pump and is a good tradeoff between keeping the original tonal quality and introducing pumping. It blows the doors off the 2 band in terms of overall quality). While I didn't get to play with the 8500 outside of NAB, if it's anything like the 8400, the factory presets aren't that great for starting points.

I would love to have the chance to sit and create presets for these companies and was happy to be able to beta a DSP-X for BW last year. Alot of my suggestions did end up in the box and I was proud of it. When I put it on the air against the more expensive processors, the fact that this small box with a few of my suggestions and ideas stood up was a very cool moment.

There is alot of ego with processing and I am very protective of the stations who's airchains I've consulted or maintained. Audio processing is an art and most feel they have the right way and know how it should sound. What one person may like, another may not. The people in my engineering circles do talk to me about audio processing and I refer to them for other matters where they are strong. Before anyone goes out and diddles an audio processor, you should find someone with a good track record if possible.

 

[1290wgli]

Granted, these are
> different genres and call for different measures, but I'd
> put a properly tuned 2020 against any Omnia (but notice I
> said "properly tuned"!!).

This is one box that I never tinkered with, but saw a demo at NAB. Even used some of my challenging audio I had with on CD. I asked the gentleman to tweak it so I could hear his idea of what it should sound like. Was not impressed. I made it sound a little better, but thought the highs were way too busy and that the limiter was not properly designed to handle the extra energy introduced with the 75us pre-emphais curve. I told him it was OK but he needed to try and rethink HF control. I thought the limiter was WAY too busy. I got the "too each his own" speech. FWIW: the other end of the A/B was an 8400 with one of the factory preset. He didn't let me hang around long enough to tune that box the way I would have liked.

 

[Turntable]

> > > P.S. The Unity was one fine audio processor.....that box
>
> > WAS
> > > VERY musical. I wish Foti would bring it back!!
> > >
> >
> > You mean the Unity 2000i???
> >
> > I have it on good authority that WDRC-FM in Hartford, CT
> had
> > one for a while, and not only did it sound like absolute
> > crap, but they couldn't hold the thing together for much
> > more than a month at a time. IIRC they replaced the thing
> > more than five times within a 3-month period! After that,
> > they finally got one that didn't blow up on them, but it
> > still sounded like garbage... I believe they now run the
> > Aphex 2020 mkIII, and they sound decent. Not stunning, but
>
> > very good.
> >
> > If you want to hear a screamin' 2020, Check out
> > Cumulus-owned WRKI in Brookfield/Danbury (classic rock).
> > Pete's got that thing tricked out and it sounds
> phenomenal.
> > He runs an Omnia-6 on sister station WDBY (Patterson, NY,
> > AC) and it doesn't even come close. Granted, these are
> > different genres and call for different measures, but I'd
> > put a properly tuned 2020 against any Omnia (but notice I
> > said "properly tuned"!!).
> >
> > This is not meant to put down Mr. Foti or his product. I
> > admit the Unity was pretty much a second-generation
> digital
> > processor and was bound to have some issues. Frank, I
> > respect your opinions and your product, I think it is a
> good
> > product. But I feel that the Aphex 2020 is neglected and
> > misunderstood in a world of Omnias and Optimods. It's as
> if
> > nobody realizes there are other processors out there. Gee
> > Wiz! Who woulda thunk it??
> >
> > WELL SPARKY, bring it on Frank and I would love that shoot
> out.had a 2020 before the omnia.no comparison.if WRKI is
> tricked out it's because they are running a modulation
> science's box in front of it.that dam 2020 was not loud
> enough for anything, and Tiny TIM, God rest his soul could
> pass more high's.stations sold those 2020 mark 3's for less
> that 1500.00 just to get rid of them..check the sales Omnia
> 1st, orban 2nd ,Aphex does not sell enough of those boxes to
> even get ranked...
> >
>

Obviously it's a very opinion-intensive subject.

I didn't say Omnia sounded bad, although I have heard 6's sound attrocious. That is not necessarily the fault of the box, though-- operator error is a more likely cause. I do think the 2020 is a good sounding box when set up properly, but I've heard them sound awful as well. WDRC-FM's 2020 is a prime example, or was, before I posted on some board that they should crank it up a bit and brighten up the top end a bit... Someone obviously read it and tweaked things up a bit-- now they sound pretty good.

'RKI does have an MS box in the rack, but I don't remember if in's in the chain or not. It's entirely possible. But they also have an 8100 with half its cards missing in that rack, along with a bunch of other stuff that's not being used.

-A<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P>

 

[cranium]

2020's sound very pleasing to my ears, although they do color the sound a bit. I like the color, personally. Hands down, though, they are a B*TCH to set up and the presets suck.

I would recommend getting a demo and spending some time with it. I think they have their application for certain formats. I've seen posts here that some Aphex boxes have "blown up" or whatever, but never had a problem with 5 of their units.

 

[Turntable]

> 2020's sound very pleasing to my ears, although they do
> color the sound a bit. I like the color, personally. Hands
> down, though, they are a B*TCH to set up and the presets
> suck.
>
> I would recommend getting a demo and spending some time with
> it. I think they have their application for certain formats.
> I've seen posts here that some Aphex boxes have "blown up"
> or whatever, but never had a problem with 5 of their units.
>

Thank you! Finally something positive in this very opinionated topic...

Yes, they do sound colored... but that's an unavoidable problem with all audio processing, and in fact it is its entire purpose. I agree with you 100% that they are a bitch to set up, and I do beleive that is the very reason they never gained much popularity.

Now that we're into some reasonable discussion, instead of a pissing contest about what's better or best.. although the Orban and Foti products are wonderful, there are other options out there and I think that the Aphex box is an under-rated gem. I think many opinions are derived from other opinions, instead of the critic's own opinion.

Sure, you can go to the Omnia website and see all the positive comments from major markets. There are stations in my local market that sound great on Omnia. There are also stations running Omnia here that sound mediocre, or like absolute garbage.

IMO, almost everything in NYC is nearly unlistenable no matter what brand of wonder-box they are running. One of the best FM's I've heard out of NYC is WQCD, but most of the time there's nothing I want to hear on that station. WPLJ sounds AWFUL. If you want to sound hot, then sound hot like you did around 1995, and stop trying to hide it, because it just sounds muddy and muted. You're better off with the gradual, pumping, riding the gain sound than a brick wall that sounds constipated. Sister WABC, although my first stop on the AM dial, Has some of the worst audio I have ever heard. Local WELI with their CC-mandated 5khz bandwidth sounds better, and WCBS-AM *totally* blows them away. Again, weak and muted. HEY WABC!! Wanna improve your ratings??? Fix the audio!!! Get rid of the 9100 and throw an Omnia-AM in there. Make it sound clean like CBS-- We all know the Mouse gots the bucks... (See? I really don't hate Omnia-- I like them!).

Is it the fault of Frank Foti or or Bob Orban or their products? Absolutely not. More likely, most CE's want to see how they can improve things by throwing this-and that in front, left, right, top and center of whatever box the corporate gods granted them. I'd take an 8100 over any of these digital wonder-boxes available today, if your specialty is RF. Too much control and not enough experience. Sure, just follow the PD's suggestions... "Make it brighter", "Give me more bass", "It doesn't sound as loud as the competition, make it louder."...etc....

Tell the PD to go back to kissing the GM's ass and leave the engineering to a professional.

[End Soap-box]

Back to the 2020... DRC's sounds great now. I'd like to think that my comments caused the improvement, and I think I'm right because the change occurred the afternoon of the following day. What do I know? For all I know they got rid of the 2020 and threw an Omnia 6 in there?? I never did get a response from Kerry Richards or anyone else, and for all I know they never were running a 2020 (that's a rumor I heard)... it sure sounds like one though, and it is sweet. Not the hottest thing on the dial, but I *do* have a volume control, and I can use it. Nice separation and dynamics control.

WRKI's is set up alot hotter, especially in the bottom-end and gives a nice thump in the seat in the car. A little ragged in the top-end and it sometimes gets a bit constrained on loud passages, but overall it is consistent and voices sound excellent. As in a previous post, I'd sure like to know if Pete has that Modulation Sciences box in-line or not.

-done-

-A

-A<P ID="signature">______________
"...How can you be deaf, with ears like that??"</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Turntable on 07/26/05 03:05 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[1290wgli]

> Sister WABC, although my first stop
> on the AM dial, Has some of the worst audio I have ever
> heard. Local WELI with their CC-mandated 5khz bandwidth
> sounds better, and WCBS-AM *totally* blows them away. Again,
> weak and muted. HEY WABC!! Wanna improve your ratings??? Fix
> the audio!!! Get rid of the 9100 and throw an Omnia-AM in
> there. Make it sound clean like CBS-- We all know the Mouse
> gots the bucks... (See? I really don't hate Omnia-- I like
> them!).

I have demo'ed all of the Omnia AM processors vs the 9100. Two on an AM talker, one on a music AM. For my tastes, there just isn't anything like a 9100 for talk AM. The Omnia is a very VERY close second, but there's something.... missing. Voice doesn't have the same punch. It doesn't cut thru the AM ether like the 9100. It is almost too "FM like".

For music, the Omnia was even closer and there were some things I *did* prefer. But, overall, the 9100 is damn tough to beat for AM talk.

 

[stace]

> > > > AAA station with variety from Norah Jones to Foo
> > Fighters.
> > >
> > > > We are fine tuning our system, anyone have a
> suggestion
> > > for
> > > > our Orban 2200 Optimod? Thanks!
> > >
> > > How about the "Music - Heavy" preset? It sounds nicely
> > loud
> > > for music, but voice can sound a bit harsh.
> > > I would suggest the off preset.and get you a omnia 3 fm
> > turbo.it will work much better
> >
>
> In keeping with the question: short of suggesting "off", I
> agree with the one poster suggesting a set of Texar's
> (provided they are clean) in front of the 2200. Be prepared
> to tweak, slow release settings in the 2200, and probably
> start over a time or two.
>
> Older digital processors, were hardly "all in one"
> solutions...and had a hard time tonally balancing and
> keeping up with varied source material.

This is how I got ours sounding smooth

Use the 2B general purpose preset, then give it 2 notches up on the 'Less-More' control, then back the 2B drive off one notch I think just 1db, finally ad 2 db of High freq enhancement...It's a nice punchy Open sound.

let me know how you go!
>

 

[stace]

> > Give me a break! The Omnia 3 isn't in the same league as
> the
> > 2200.
> > Ask SSnake what the Georgia Tech radio station
> bought....it
> > wasn't an Omnia!This is one of the Premier engineering
> > schools in the world....and I'll bet they could have
> bought
> > an Omnia if the FACTS warrented....but they bought an
> > Optimod!
> > GM's, PD's, jocks and sales managers buy Omnia.The guys
> who
> > can do the math(and can hear) buy Optimod!
>
> The Optimod 2200 is a good box. I won't say it's better or
> worse than the homegrown analog compressor/limiter that we
> used to use, but it's easy to configure and use, and we have
> much better modulation control than we did before.
>
> We'll soon be automating preset changes for different
> content; e.g. "Talk" for talk shows and sports (along with
> pilot off), and "Classical Protect" for classical music.
>
> Using "Music - Heavy" on the 2200 with the Less/More
> control, we're able to get as loud as the other stations in
> Atlanta, but we've backed off to "Music - Medium" to be less
> fatiguing (and voice sounds better).
>
> The successor Optimod 2300 has added quite a few features,
> like composite clipping.
>
I found music medium was to bloody slow to recove on live vocals. 2B General purpose with a few notches up on the less more and some high frequencey enhancement not a bad sound

 

[rorban]

Orban andAlso, the factory presets are nothing to write home about. Omnia has good starting points. With Orban, you have to drop back and punt. I have the same problem with the 1100 PC soundcard processor I have in my PC. The factory presets are a joke and not even close. NONE of them have any sizzle or warmth and sound ------. The oldies presets are especially bad and make the music sound dull. The classical "2 band purist" presets pump the audio, making the classical pieces sound unnatural (I created a band-coupled 5 band preset that doesn't pump and is a good tradeoff between keeping the original tonal quality and introducing pumping. It blows the doors off the 2 band in terms of overall quality). While I didn't get to play with the 8500 outside of NAB, if it's anything like the 8400, the factory presets aren't that great for starting points.

Bear in mind that the quote above represents one man's opinion, A lot of stations are using 8500 factory presets on-air, either stock or with minor modifications.Also, most existing 1100 owners can run our V2 software upgrade. This is a major upgrade that provides a whole new set of presets (not to mention a whole new DSP base).Bob Orban