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Orlando moves up in market size
- Thread starter Jay F
- Start date
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PaulBWalkerJr
Guest
I know Cocoa-Melbourne changed market sizes, going up a few sometime ago... Any changes on that lately too??
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Scott Lofskin
Guest
Overall, the entire state of Florida is growing quickly.
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radioguy86
Guest
Everyone that was smaller than New Orleans has moved up a spot. There's barely anyone left in the N.O. metro.
Miami, West Palm and Jacksonville have all likely topped out. Since Orlando is an insanely large ARB market in total area its going to take another couple of major jumps in the next few years. If the population guesses run by the Sentinel two weeks ago are close then sometime in the next 20 years this market is going to pass some rather notable places like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, and Kansas City just to name a few. Before that happens, though, I'll bet that ARB is forced to cut the geographic area back.
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radiofriend1
Guest
Snafu said:
why?
LOL, where did you come up with the notion that Miami/South FL and Jacksonville have topped out?
Jacksonville is one of the biggest cities in size in the country so even at 800,000 it's small. The population of Dade County on the other hand is at 2.5 million, and that of Palm Beach at around 1.3 million. I don't see them slowing down anytime soon.
And you forgot about Tampa-St. Pete which are growing nicely.
Since the Tampa-St. Pete radio market includes two counties that are not too close to downtown Tampa (Pasco and Hernando) I see no reason for Arbitron to scale back the size of the Orlando geographic market. After all, Tampa is already a Top 20 market.
Furthermore, the Orlando TV market is the one that covers too big of a geographic area as it includes Daytona and Melbourne as well.
The biggest problem in metro Orlando is that most of the fast roads are toll roads and there's only one interstate. If there was an I-44 and an I-84 looping around parts of Orlando alongside I-4, rather then the 408 and the 417 then traffic would move faster. Miami has I-195 and I-395, and parts of 826 are free.
Tampa has I-4, I-75, and I-275, along with some good toll roads.
So if any market stands to slow down it's ORLANDO due to a lack of proper interstate planning and funding.
Jacksonville is one of the biggest cities in size in the country so even at 800,000 it's small. The population of Dade County on the other hand is at 2.5 million, and that of Palm Beach at around 1.3 million. I don't see them slowing down anytime soon.
And you forgot about Tampa-St. Pete which are growing nicely.
Since the Tampa-St. Pete radio market includes two counties that are not too close to downtown Tampa (Pasco and Hernando) I see no reason for Arbitron to scale back the size of the Orlando geographic market. After all, Tampa is already a Top 20 market.
Furthermore, the Orlando TV market is the one that covers too big of a geographic area as it includes Daytona and Melbourne as well.
The biggest problem in metro Orlando is that most of the fast roads are toll roads and there's only one interstate. If there was an I-44 and an I-84 looping around parts of Orlando alongside I-4, rather then the 408 and the 417 then traffic would move faster. Miami has I-195 and I-395, and parts of 826 are free.
Tampa has I-4, I-75, and I-275, along with some good toll roads.
So if any market stands to slow down it's ORLANDO due to a lack of proper interstate planning and funding.
Orlando's area isn't too large! The signals are too small... 
especially on AM.
especially on AM.Jacksonville is not creating jobs at the rate the rest of the state is. Hasn't for a while. Miami has topped out because of geography (ocean on one side, swamp on the other). Ask the folks in San Diego why they can't get much bigger.
Orlando and Tampa's areas will be adjusted just as some larger markets have in the past because its what the advertisers want. How do you explain Long Island as a market seperate from New York City? Or some of the breakups in Southern California? Same things bound to happen here, especially if all of these urban planners are right and Central Florida is one giant megaopolis stretching from Daytona to Tampa Bay. Too much to digest, so it will be broken down.
Orlando and Tampa's areas will be adjusted just as some larger markets have in the past because its what the advertisers want. How do you explain Long Island as a market seperate from New York City? Or some of the breakups in Southern California? Same things bound to happen here, especially if all of these urban planners are right and Central Florida is one giant megaopolis stretching from Daytona to Tampa Bay. Too much to digest, so it will be broken down.
Jax is not producing enough jobs? I thought unemployment was LOW in that part of Florida
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2005/06/13/daily31.html
Miami maxing out? LOL you crack me up. When was the last time you've been to South FL? There are more HIGH RISE condos being built in Miami than anywhere else in FL, which is one way from the population to grow.
Another is to DRY UP the swamps, and continue the expansion westward into the everglades. How else do you explain towns like Weston in Broward County popping up over the last decade and a half? You can tell by the architecture that this town doesn't have much history like seaside towns in South FL, but it's been ranked as one of the best places to live in the country (and one of the wealthiest too).
As for San Diego, yeah let's bring up one of the most expensive metro areas, one that BORDERS ANOTHER COUNTRY (that kind of makes it hard to expand southward don't you think?) and has mountain ranges to the east. Give it time though, the metro will find a way to expand beyond the mountains to the east, and up to metro L.A. to the north.
You know 90 percent of Japan isn't inhabitable due to mountains, and yet 130 million people live there. 30 million alone in the Tokyo-Yokahoma area. Compared to that, I'd say South FL should have an easy time expanding.
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2005/06/13/daily31.html
Miami maxing out? LOL you crack me up. When was the last time you've been to South FL? There are more HIGH RISE condos being built in Miami than anywhere else in FL, which is one way from the population to grow.
Another is to DRY UP the swamps, and continue the expansion westward into the everglades. How else do you explain towns like Weston in Broward County popping up over the last decade and a half? You can tell by the architecture that this town doesn't have much history like seaside towns in South FL, but it's been ranked as one of the best places to live in the country (and one of the wealthiest too).
As for San Diego, yeah let's bring up one of the most expensive metro areas, one that BORDERS ANOTHER COUNTRY (that kind of makes it hard to expand southward don't you think?) and has mountain ranges to the east. Give it time though, the metro will find a way to expand beyond the mountains to the east, and up to metro L.A. to the north.
You know 90 percent of Japan isn't inhabitable due to mountains, and yet 130 million people live there. 30 million alone in the Tokyo-Yokahoma area. Compared to that, I'd say South FL should have an easy time expanding.
The tendency now is for the state to buy back land in the Everglades so it can't be developed. Weston is a sore thumb that made a lot of people very mad. Any attempt to move more development into the glades would cause a firestorm. Hell, they can't even get permits to put radio towers out there, which would be a perfect location to cover Miami - Ft L before blasting into the open Atlantic. If you think they're going to start draining swampland to build Miami out some more, you're "cracked up" allright, but not for the reason you think.
Why would a developer fight to open up more glades when there's plenty of high and dry farmland up in Polk County and Yeehaw waiting to be built upon?
Miami - Ft L ranks less than 100 on the sprawl index, meaning it sprawls less than the average metro area. It's like Manhattan, hemmed in by the bay/intracoastal on one side and the "river of grass" on the other. Condos might be a way to increase the density, but mass transportation is going to have to improve and So Fla will have to cut back on being a "car city." Considering the manners of most of their drivers, maybe a good thing.
Why would a developer fight to open up more glades when there's plenty of high and dry farmland up in Polk County and Yeehaw waiting to be built upon?
Miami - Ft L ranks less than 100 on the sprawl index, meaning it sprawls less than the average metro area. It's like Manhattan, hemmed in by the bay/intracoastal on one side and the "river of grass" on the other. Condos might be a way to increase the density, but mass transportation is going to have to improve and So Fla will have to cut back on being a "car city." Considering the manners of most of their drivers, maybe a good thing.
B/c it's Polk County. Part of Polk County's population commutes to Tampa, or to work in the attractions/Lake Buena Vista area. They don't commute to work in Miami Ft. Lauderdale :
I don't even know of anyone who wants to move to Yeehaw, unless they're poor and desperate.
Trust me, South FL will continue to expand upwards, as well as westwards while more Everglades land will be lossed to prime real estate. Money talks. We're not talking about setting aside some area for a small park, we;re talking about land that covers two thirds of Dade and Broward counties.
Dade county is at the present time the eighth most populated county in America, while Broward is the 15th largest, and Palm Beach is the thirtieth most populated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_populous_counties_in_the_United_States
You have to go BELOW the top 30 to find counites in other parts of FL inside that list, though Hillsborough and Orange counties are closing in on it.
If you want to talk about counties that have a hard time expanding you might as well bring up Pinellas. It's population is smaller than the above mentioned counties, but the county size is also smaller so the population is much more dense.
I don't even know of anyone who wants to move to Yeehaw, unless they're poor and desperate.
Trust me, South FL will continue to expand upwards, as well as westwards while more Everglades land will be lossed to prime real estate. Money talks. We're not talking about setting aside some area for a small park, we;re talking about land that covers two thirds of Dade and Broward counties.
Dade county is at the present time the eighth most populated county in America, while Broward is the 15th largest, and Palm Beach is the thirtieth most populated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_populous_counties_in_the_United_States
You have to go BELOW the top 30 to find counites in other parts of FL inside that list, though Hillsborough and Orange counties are closing in on it.
If you want to talk about counties that have a hard time expanding you might as well bring up Pinellas. It's population is smaller than the above mentioned counties, but the county size is also smaller so the population is much more dense.
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