over "mix" saturated??

[observer11]

Been thinking about this one for a bit.

There is Jack 92.9, Mix 104.1, Star 102.5, JYE 96.1 in the states

There also is Mix 99.9, CHUM, River 105.7 from abroad

Where do we draw the line with the stations trying to draw females? All of these are trying to get the same audience with a few tweaking their playlist a bit to skew older or younger. To me, they are all the same with JYE being the least tolerable.

They all want to be the "variety" station playing "what they want" in the best "mix". (sorry, have nothing on JYE)

If you could change 1 or more to be more tolerable what would you do? I miss some oldies and standards and actually can't tolerate huey lewis on WHTT. They shouldn't be playing that, it doesn't seem right. Would a straight alternative station make it? Another country? Male talk? straight 70 & 80's? Tell me

Sorry, but these stations have hit my wall, too many.

Just observing

 

[Radknowski]

There is Jack 92.9, Mix 104.1, Star 102.5, JYE 96.1 in the states. There also is Mix 99.9, CHUM, River 105.7 from abroad.

Canadian stations don't really put up significant numbers in Buffalo, so while guys like us punch in Q-107, 97.7 and CHUM-FM from time to time, they're insignificant to the average Joe or Jill who lives in Buffalo.

Where do we draw the line with the stations trying to draw females? All of these are trying to get the same audience with a few tweaking their playlist a bit to skew older or younger.

"We" don't draw the line, the advertising community draws the line. They make the buys, they dictate where the money is going to be spent and they determine how "deep" the buys are going to be for any one specific demo. For example, let's take Lord & Taylor. They might make a buy in the 25-49 demo, Women only and only the top three stations in that demo, Monday through Sunday, 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. The top three stations in that demo get the buy. The others are out in the cold.

They all want to be the "variety" station playing "what they want" in the best "mix".

They all have "variety." As long as it's variety derived from 365 songs. By my assessment, there are five AC's in Buffalo. WBUF (Rock AC), WJYE (Lite AC), WTSS (Hot AC), WHTT (Gold-based AC) and WYRK (Country). These stations target Women, 25-54. Each has a pocket of strength in that broad demo. Hard to justify a 27 year old woman having the same interests and music taste as a 51 year old Woman, but as long as advertisers and agencies want to work on such broad-based numbers, we'll see five stations chasing the demo.

If you could change 1 or more to be more tolerable what would you do? I miss some oldies and standards and actually can't tolerate huey lewis on WHTT. They shouldn't be playing that, it doesn't seem right. Would a straight alternative station make it? Another country? Male talk? straight 70 & 80's?

I've often thought an Adult Album Alternative station would make it in Buffalo, but the more I read and hear from friends in the business, the more I realize AAA is a tough sell. See paragraph #2 regarding advertisers and buys.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Been thinking about this one for a bit.

There is Jack 92.9, Mix 104.1, Star 102.5, JYE 96.1 in the states

There also is Mix 99.9, CHUM, River 105.7 from abroad

105.7 is (CHRE) Niagara's Easy Rock. Did you mean 105.1?

 

[NeedsMoreCowbell]

Of all the ACs in the market, YRK and TSS have been the most consistent in mission. Very little staff turnover, very little change in musical direction. What HTT is doing now, in my opinion, is attempting too much: keeping the Arethas and Van Morrisons, while playing Sheryl Crow and Rob Thomas. That's Jack's approach - and I think it's going to hurt Jack more than it will hurt JYE and TSS, truth be told. Changing your spots without a massive marketing campaign to back it up doesn't generally work. Regent must sense this threat to Jack because I'm seeing their TV spots all over the place. Not a good spot, but I'm seeing it.

The question mark is JYE. Before Regent, they too were consistent: Lite Rock, less talk, not a lot of staff turnover, and good ratings. Post-Regent there's a lot of talk, and it's generally not good talk, especially in midday. No marketing to speak of, and ratings are sliding, except at night where they're staying true to the Lite Rock philosophy. During the day the music is quite a bit more contemporary, which I don't think the JYE listeners want or expect.

I think most markets can support one successful Hot AC, one successful Lite AC, one successful Country, and everybody else scrambles for crumbs from the 25-54 pie. The key to jockeying for position within those three genres is marketing. Is anyone really doing it this Spring yet?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Mixed? Chopped? Pureed?

The key to jockeying for position within those three genres is marketing. Is anyone really doing it this Spring yet?

I've been noticing Star spots on late-night TV for the last week or two.

As far as the rest of the discussion goes, it's obvious that someone at Citadel decided that they needed 25-54 women, and Oldies was the format that had the least potential for revenue growth. It's a hard format for 25-year old sales kids to sell, and the audience demos were moving steadily toward WBEN territory. They "transitioned" over a long period of time until they finally went all-out a few months back.

The Spring book is just getting started, so we'll see who the players are when and if TV ad campaigns get cranked up. The contesting has already begun - with trips, Sabres tickets, and cash all up for grabs.

It will be interesting to see if there are any other changes. I've noticed that Sue O'Neil is back on the air from 2:00PM - 4:00PM - opposite Val Townsend on 104. Oddly, she's listed among the "rest of the Star team" on their website, so it makes you wonder if that's a long-term change or not.

 

[SpareChange]

I've been noticing Star spots on late-night TV for the last week or two.

As have I. Also noticed the Jack spot. First time I saw it, it looked like Andrew Dice Clay (albeit a few pounds lighter) dancing to the beats. It's just a matter of time before WJYE and WHTT hit the TV trail. Wondering who's going to use one of those lame "Phil Collins... Phil Collins... Phil Collins..." AC commercials? A parody of those spots appeared on this board a few months ago. If you missed it, that was a hoot. Star's commercials are all over the place, including American Idol and other prime time shows. Bet that's costing Entercom small fortune. TV stations don't trade prime time avails. It's a lame commercial, with stick figures in a cubical farm. Nonetheless, it caught my attention as I fast forwarded through the commercial break.

As far as the rest of the discussion goes, it's obvious that someone at Citadel decided that they needed 25-54 women, and Oldies was the format that had the least potential for revenue growth. It's a hard format for 25-year old sales kids to sell, and the audience demos were moving steadily toward WBEN territory. They "transitioned" over a long period of time until they finally went all-out a few months back.

Are all the sales people at Citadel newbees or 25 year olds? Surely, they have some veterans in the sales department. From everything I've read and heard, even seasoned sales people in cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee and Detroit were facing increasing objections to Oldies. It seems the move to "transition" and contemporize the oldies format is a national trend that gained momentum and consensus. Now, these stations are playing songs that are 10-25 years old rather than 30-40 years old. WHTT sounds like the women's version of Jack. I guess it depends on when you listen, but it sounds more foreground than WJYE and not as hot as Star.

The Spring book is just getting started, so we'll see who the players are when and if TV ad campaigns get cranked up. The contesting has already begun - with trips, Sabres tickets, and cash all up for grabs.

With Sabres Fever running as hot as it is, would it be a surprise if WGR ranked top five in the Spring book. I suppose this depends on whether the Sabres make it to the Stanley Cup finals. Still, the Sabres have propelled WGR, especially the last two Spring book. Seems WGR and the Sabres would adversely affect stations like the Edge and 97 Rock more than stations like Star, WJYE and WHTT.

It will be interesting to see if there are any other changes. I've noticed that Sue O'Neil is back on the air from 2:00PM - 4:00PM - opposite Val Townsend on 104. Oddly, she's listed among the "rest of the Star team" on their website, so it makes you wonder if that's a long-term change or not.

Of the two women in afternoon drive, Sue O'Neil has more experience doing AC and this comes across on the air. She's smoother, talks about stuff that's happening in Buffalo. She doesn't sound like she's shouting and rarely, if ever, walks on vocals when doing talk-ups. Townsend sounds like she's still on the Edge or auditioning for Kiss, and her sense of timing and content aren't nearly as good as as O'Neil's. If 25-54 Women is the target demo, give Star the advantage in afternoons.

 

[radio999]

first time poster, long time reader...

I used to be an Edge listener untill Opie and Anthony came on the air...just not my taste. I love Shredd And Reagan, I think what they do (and have done for so many years) actually still sounds fresh, current (and most importantly) local.

Anyhow, I switched to Mix when I started hearing lots of those songs *I* grew up with (I'm 28). So to have a station that plays madonna, prince, u2 and still get the sing-a-long songs like Neil Diamond really is a good mix for me in my car on those days the ipod is charging. It's like, more classic than Star but not as dentist-office as WJYE.

I like sue o'neil...I remember listening to her as a kid when she was on Kiss. I liked Val a lot on the Edge too...Val does sound a LOT younger than Sue, but I don't really think it's a bad thing....it's a nice contrast that I think sets mix apart...the star/jye (and the rest of the mix staff) sounds OLD...like listening to my parents on the air. If they're trying to grab some of my age group, it's working....a lot of my friends are listening to mix now that they've realized it's not oldies anymore.

but yeah, those star commercials freak me out! It's like the SIMS in an office...

 

[Element9]

I like sue o'neil...I remember listening to her as a kid when she was on Kiss. I liked Val a lot on the Edge too...Val does sound a LOT younger than Sue, but I don't really think it's a bad thing....it's a nice contrast that I think sets mix apart...the star/jye (and the rest of the mix staff) sounds OLD...like listening to my parents on the air. If they're trying to grab some of my age group, it's working....a lot of my friends are listening to mix now that they've realized it's not oldies anymore.

O'Neil is the better of the two, but there are times when she sounds just as girly-pukey as Townsend, who has a better commercial voice and does some very good work in that department, but her airwork was better on the Edge.

Rob Lucas is one of the best AC morning guys around. He's more local and topical than Joe Chille and the Mix morning show. Roger Christian has been working at 102.5 since it was WBEN-FM, but he doesn't sound old to me, maybe because I'm not 28 anymore. He's solid (as a Rock 102.) Jim Pastrick sounds smooth and very relatable in middays on WHTT, even though I think of him as a 97 Rock guy (being a guy, that's what I've listened to for many years.) WJYE gets better in afternoon drive with a very seasoned Bob Galli. Say what you will, she's sappy and lame, but there's a reason Delilah pulls big numbers with 25-54 Women at night. This AC battle in Buffalo is going to be very interesting. I'd say Star has the advantage and it's a toss-up for #2.

-9-

 

[SpareChange]

Checking the Mix website I noticed Harv Moor is still featured in the "personalities" table. Does he still work there?

 

[observer11]

Star does have the advantage over JYE. Battle of the afternoon drive i'd say Sue has the edge over Val. The AC battle is in full effect and we will find out in a few weeks with the winter book.

Rob Lucas in the morning is very good by himself, Joe C is a little boring and for my taste Bill and Gail on WHTT is so scripted and unlistenable.

WTSS is leading them all and has been pulling great numbers. They have a solid staff and should continue to do well in the next book.

Just Observing

 

[SirRoxalot]

Morning Curmudgeon

Rob Lucas in the morning is very good by himself

Rob Lucas is GOOD? Oh, how low standards have fallen when his lame attempts at humor are considered good. I find myself feeling embarrassed for him.

Joe C is a little boring

A little?

and for my taste Bill and Gail on WHTT is so scripted and unlistenable.

You think that crap is scripted? I doubt that Gail can type fast enough to script her ramblings. And, her newscasts indicate that she can't read well enough to deliver scripted content that smoothly. I'd rather hear Bill alone, with a real newsperson to do real news.

When it comes to choosing between these three shows, it's hard to pick the lesser of the evils. To me, they're all evil. I opt for none of the above.

Gosh, it looks like I woke up grumpy this morning, doesn't it?

 

[observer11]

wow, no coffee before a post can be dangerous. rob lucas can keep a show moving even if his humor attempts fall short of your standards. by the way, not sure if he's trying to cater to your demo. he is topical and can relate better than the others. Bill and Gail aren't the mix demo anymore and they seem out of place as does the rest of the staff besides Val. JYE is your dentist office station...it helps numb the pain by putting you to sleep in the chair.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Ageism? Sexism?

Bill and Gail aren't the mix demo anymore and they seem out of place as does the rest of the staff besides Val.

The whole staff at WHTT(except Val) seems out of place because they're not in the demo?

Since the target demo is Women 25-54, let's see who's IN the demo among the three stations cited:

Star: Age Sex
Rob Lucas: yes no
Roger Christian: no no
Sue O'Neil: yes yes
Brian DeMay: yes no
John Anthony: yes no

WJYE: Age Sex
Joe Chille no no
CJ yes yes
Bob Galli no no

WHTT: Age Sex
Bill Lacy no no
Gail Ann Huber yes yes
Jim Pastrick no no
Val Townsend yes yes
Harv Moore (?) no no
Joe Siragusa yes no

So, the tally says that WHTT actually has MORE people in the 25-54 female demo than anybody else. Star has more people in the demo age-wise.

I'm not sure that the age of personalities is as meaningful as you think. Roger Christian and Jim Pastrick sound much younger than their years. Joe Chille does the type of radio that he does very well, and age doesn't seem to be much of a factor there. Since Harv Moore hasn't been on for over a week now, I'm not sure if he's still in play here.

The two big differences between the stations are music and delivery.

Star is a Hot AC, which means mostly contemporary music, and lots of liner-reading. It's not exactly a "cult of personality".

WJYE is the "sappy love songs" mixed with "older sappy love songs" mixed with Delilah. All liners, all the time. Personality? What personality?

WHTT is gold-based AC, with a wider variety of music, and a staff that's generally more personality-oriented in the limited opportunities that they have to work with. The exception might be Val, who seems like she's all-liners, all-the-time. Sue O'Neil is more personality-oriented than Val.

Overall, it looks like there are distinguishing characteristics among the three stations, and I doubt that any of them are going to have much exclusive cume. Star will skew younger, and WJYE may actually skew older than the current version of WHTT. WHTT is the new kid on the AC block, and it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

[SpareChange]

As you break it out, Gail Ann Huber, Sue O'Neil and Val Townsend are the only three personalities with whom a 25-54 year old woman can truly relate. Of the three, it appears that Ms. Huber has the most experience in the demo as to age and gender.

Gender or age may not matter at all to Women. We'll find out in the next six to 12 months when the dust settles with WTSS, WJYE and WHTT. It seems women want to hear music they can identify with that doesn't make them feel old (like 50's and 60's?) and a jock, male or female who doesn't insult them. Sounds easy enough.

A PD once told me that if Tim Allen, Al Borland, Ray Romano and Bob Sagget could be combined, they'd make the perfect AC morning guy. But if that was the case, why would that jock want to do radio when he could do TV and movies?