Over-saturation

[davideduardo]

WNRP doesn't show up at all in the published Pensacola ratings.

That's not an agency driven market, and talk is not a favorite of agencies anyway. So it makes no sense to buy the book in that kind of market.

A Nielsen nonsubscriber or listened to by no one?

It has really nice billing for Pensacola.

Iowa City doesn't seem to be a rated market. KCJJ is a no-show in Des Moines and Quad Cities.

KCJJ is nowhere near Des Moines or the Quad Cities. It covers the Iowa City area, not any rated market as it does not remotely cover one.

The X-Band in LA, in Korean, is reputed to be very successful. As is the 1690 in Chicago, which reputedly bills over $2 million a year. WWRU in the NYC market bills nearly a million with its Korean format. WOZN in Omaha does about $2 million with sports, and WTAW in College station is nearly a million dollar news/talk biller in a rather small market.

 

[davideduardo]

There are always a few Nielsen "non-subscribers", either as stations themselves, or even in the audience.

In even the largest markets, there are as many or more non-subscribers as there are subscribers.

The audience does not "subscribe" to Nielsen.

 

[davideduardo]

Considering how few x-band stations there are right now, 50kw would be quite helpful for some stations! (And of course you have frequencies like 1630 and 1700 where they're all bunched together)

The reason for few stations is that 1610 to 1700 are essentially short wave frequencies and more than 1 kw at night would pretty much prevent having more than two or three on those channels at night. With 50 kw only one station per channel could be authorized or we'd have to revert to very directional systems.

 

[ZantennaG1]

In even the largest markets, there are as many or more non-subscribers as there are subscribers.

The audience does not "subscribe" to Nielsen.

Whoops, well not "audience subscribers", rather people who decide not to take the survey.

 

[ZantennaG1]

I think despite the obvious bumps and bruises, the x-band is doing it's job 20+ years later, we just had to be patient while all the auto manufacturers started including that band, hence the double stations for 5 years. One thing that helped was that the internet was in it's infancy in the 1990's and early 2000's, before streaming took over. I don't know if it could be replicated in today's world with it's convenient access to internet radio, but it has been done before.

 

[ZantennaG1]

I know for a fact, if we did expand the FM band, everyone and their brother would want to build a new radio station in those new spots. Once they did, many would come on here and say we have way too many radio stations now and most of these new ones aren't serving a purpose. It would be best to leave the FM band as is. That model is working very well for many of us that have a radio station.

Dan <><

P.S. The radios I own, don't go below 87.5 or above 107.9 FM. Hey I even own one now that has no AM band at all.​

Where have we heard that before about every one and their little brother? Quite possibly the LPFM authorization in the 1990s? Anyways, yeaj, my vehicular radio doesn't go below 87.7 (shame), but one of my inside radios does make it down to 64 Mhz (sweet!) For the first part of any theoretical expansion, we would probably adopt Japense radios for a while until we can build our own.

 

[ZantennaG1]

While we're on the subject, can anyone think of other markets that have been over-run by stations?

 

[TheBigA]

While we're on the subject, can anyone think of other markets that have been over-run by stations?

Every major market. Look at NYC. You have the city stations, the suburban stations, some translators, and the pirates.

 

[ZantennaG1]

and the pirates.

That might be worthy of a different thread in itself, where underrepresented sub-cultures become wave pirates.

 

[TheBigA]

That might be worthy of a different thread in itself, where underrepresented sub-cultures become wave pirates.

Not just "underrepresented sub-cultures." Many in NYC are non-citizens, thus unqualified to obtain licenses. Or the formats don't make enough money for an actual station, but they can support a station in someone's spare bedroom.

 

[Ryan Williams]

The X-Band in LA, in Korean, is reputed to be very successful. As is the 1690 in Chicago, which reputedly bills over $2 million a year. WWRU in the NYC market bills nearly a million with its Korean format. WOZN in Omaha does about $2 million with sports, and WTAW in College station is nearly a million dollar news/talk biller in a rather small market.

WTAW is a very strong station. Still runs AM HD Radio too. Not surprised it does that well, even in a small market. KRZI which is an X-BAND ESPN affiliate with lots of local programming in Waco also does very well . I would guess on average it bills at least 500-700k per year.

 

[davideduardo]

Whoops, well not "audience subscribers", rather people who decide not to take the survey.

The sample for Nielsen is quite small, and they are generally able to achieve the sample size even during the pandemic. In fact, their biggest PPM issue during the pandemic is the unavailability of replacement meters due to low end CPU backlogs in Asia.

 

[michael hagerty]

Expanding the band to allow more stations isn't going to fix over-saturation. All you're giving "everyone a shot" to do is to go broke.

In reality, there's probably a salable audience for---what---20, maybe 25 signals in the market (David, tell me how far off I am)?

 

[ZantennaG1]

Expanding the band to allow more stations isn't going to fix over-saturation. All you're giving "everyone a shot" to do is to go broke.

In reality, there's probably a salable audience for---what---20, maybe 25 signals in the market (David, tell me how far off I am)?

In my smaller city, we really only need 10-12 different *actually good* formats, and in a larger city, I would agree that 25 is a decent maximum. However, I think LA got off track at one point, and there are now a few sub-par or possibly copy-cat signals, increasing exponentially. Competition was supposed to help fix this, but the big cities have become a run-away train of stations. In a way though, having a hundred plus stations is inevitable to support a larger and more diverse population. So, yeah, the ideal is 25 stations, but I think it would be next to impossible to apply this to the top 5 cities, for now.

 

[ragazzo-pazzo]

In reality, there's probably a salable audience for---what---20, maybe 25 signals in the market (David, tell me how far off I am)?

Not David, but I learned this simple lesson 50+ years ago -

One does not need a "great looking" can of beans, to sell beans - Of course having a better looking can of beans can increase your profit potential but still the only thing required is a can of beans. Same is true of radio.

 

[TheBigA]

Competition was supposed to help fix this, but the big cities have become a run-away train of stations.

Competition HAS fixed this. However you have operators who are willing to run radio stations with small audiences.

At the same time, the spectrum is owned by the government, and its in their best interest to have MORE, not fewer stations.

 

[spiritof67]

I do wish the FM band was expanded to allow most AM stations to migrate to FM, and for most AM stations to turn off their signals. Unfortunately, even if this was done, the plan would be executed poorly if the X-band rollout is any indication. Translators have cluttered the dial where I live, allowing one service to simulcast at several places on the dial, instead of one solid signal to cover the area.

 

[ZantennaG1]

Translators have cluttered the dial where I live, allowing one service to simulcast at several places on the dial, instead of one solid signal to cover the area.

That's definitely one thought of mine. In a small town, each signal is legitimately local, but in a big city, the same feed could be relayed to a dozen translators with now original programming, hence crowding the dial. So I guess my more complete answer to RDP and Michael is that whenever we do open up a new band, we designate ahead of time who we want to be there (mainly full-power FM repeaters of AM stations, and some niche formats, barring a petition with 500 signatures in small cities and 2500 in large ones).

 

[ZantennaG1]

Not David, but I learned this simple lesson 50+ years ago -

One does not need a "great looking" can of beans, to sell beans - Of course having a better looking can of beans can increase your profit potential but still the only thing required is a can of beans. Same is true of radio.

That's an interesting way of putting it!

 

[MVB13]

Thats the stupidest thing ive heard today.. they didnt designate "99.1, 101.5 and 107.9" as LP only frequencies.. its just where they happen to fit with all the other full powers

The other thing youre neglecting to mention with 2 or 3 stations on the same frequency, los angeles is really big and the stations with 2 or 3 on the same channel are much smaller Class A's usually spread 30-40 miles apart and the base setting when searching on radio locator is distant signals, not locals, but not fringe.. which makes a difference

Are distant signals stations one can pick up on a car radio and at home?