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Over Six Months Ago, This Weekend:

....and as I have said before,....that is his mistake!

For once the/his research hard-nailed the problem with Radio Punch-out, on paper.

It wasn't lying to him, but it is his choice to heed or not heed, and make that mistake.

So,...if you take him out of the equation,...and you decide, on your own,.....which way would you choose?
 
Scooter Lesley said:
So,...if you take him out of the equation,...and you decide, on your own,.....which way would you choose?
Click to expand...

You do what works. And clearly, what works is playing the hits. That's what you choose.

If you have an example where big playlists are working and getting big numbers, post it here. And don't talk about 25 years ago. I mean now.
 
Scooter Lesley said:
Oh,...and Mr.Ed,....next time, type us one in Spanish. I won't be able to read a word of it, but it will entertain us all, none the less.
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Oh, and Lesley...next time, type us one in English. You won't be able to read a word of it, but it will entertain us all, more or less.
 
Scooter Lesley said:
More importantly, as I said in the beginning, after very expensive research, a major Consultant(sic) firm, is beginning to see it my way: Short-shallow playlists:
Over-playing or repeating the same songs too much,(sic) can cause you to loose listeners. It was never that hard to deduce.
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Bzzzt. The BS alarm just went off.

One consultant specializing in one format / genre has said that classic rock is playing too much of the same stuff as always without freshening or broadening and runs the risk of being a 55+ white guys' format with no entry door for younger listeners.

Apply format-specific research to other formats at your own risk.

Oh,...and Mr.Ed,....next time, type us one in Spanish. I won't be able to read a word of it, but it will entertain us all, none the less.
Click to expand...

At least I would write it in correct Spanish with reasonably acceptable grammar, syntax, spelling and word usage.
 
The interesting part of this discussion is that playlist size isn't a new issue. It was core to the creation of the AOR format itself 35 years ago. Burkhart/Abrams knew the format was too broad, too sloppy, and set about tightening playlists at their rock clients around the country. And yes, it led to those double digit shares you've talked about. But they got those shares by focusing on key tracks that elicited the best response, and not whatever the DJ felt like at the time. And those are the songs rock fans remember and expect to hear on classic rock stations now.
 
Yep,...we can always count on Jethro/JetreneM...to come through with a little weenie one-liner. The one above was coined with the Dead Sea was just running a fever. I have been around, and I have listened to those in Radio that are paid to spout philosophy to hopefully improve the business,...whether rich as chicken poop or not was irrelevant. Years ago, in Atlanta, over some of the best Scotch ever made(sheeeeesh!), Coyote McCloud, and I discussed Consultants. He had one or two more names on his list, but to me, the only three Consultants that seemed to make any sense were Walt Sabo, Bob Raleigh, and Lee Abrams.

It is the latter of the three, Abrams,...that was given credit to have coined the format title, "Classic Rock". However, while refining AOR down to CR, he never intended it to be 409 Burnt songs, and Boobs happy with 4-shares.
 
Wellllllllll,....I certainly think that I can get back to the subject now,....and I don't mind if I do: If any, there are very few arguments that Lee Abrams is brilliant.
As I said, in refineing down AOR into his new(then) idea of "Classic Rock" he, being a fan, knew that some tracks, are without question, more important than others, if you were to nail it to the wall, with a certain structure. AOR then wasn't structured, but what if you bridalled it to a certain level? The length of songs was his first field, then maybe tempo, and artist recognition had to be his thoughts, as well. "Turn The Page" was never a single, but Seger always performed the song live; easily understood. However, there is correct version too...."Night Moves" was a single, and Capitol pressed an (Awwwww-ful) 3:30 edit. Most Programmers avoid it, and play the full LP....because of pure common sense.
 
Scooter Lesley said:
.
As I said, in refineing down AOR into his new(then) idea of "Classic Rock" he, being a fan, knew that some tracks, are without question, more important than others, if you were to nail it to the wall, with a certain structure. AOR then wasn't structured, but what if you bridalled(sic) it to a certain level? ..
Click to expand...

Maybe I am confused, but I thought Lee Abrams developed the tight, formatted Superstars format out of what was free-form or "progressive rock" which had little structure and infinite playlists.

R&R, looking for a name for the lists for this very structured format came up with the name "AOR" just as they invented "CHR" to replace "Top 40" and to separate their list from the old school Billboard sales-based charts.

"Classic Rock" as a format took several more decades to evolve.
 
Progressive rock still exists. 95.7 the Ride in Charlotte, I believe, can be picked up in parts of the Greenville area. The man who owns it just does what he wants and doesn't care, and the last time ratings for this station were actually published, it wasn't doing too badly.

How Stevie Wonder, The Temptations and Marvin Gaye fit into this I don't quite understand. America makes more sense.
 
vchimpanzee said:
Progressive rock still exists. 95.7 the Ride in Charlotte, I believe, can be picked up in parts of the Greenville area. The man who owns it just does what he wants and doesn't care, and the last time ratings for this station were actually published, it wasn't doing too badly.

How Stevie Wonder, The Temptations and Marvin Gaye fit into this I don't quite understand. America makes more sense.
Click to expand...

WXRC is more of a rock-leaning classic hits station than a classic rock or progressive station. You can't play Dusty Springfield and be considered "progressive rock".

In fact, the station itself classifies the format as "classic hits" in its Nielsen station information listing. In this, it is like other rock leaning classic hits stations such as KOLA in the similarly sized Riverside / San Bernardino market.

But it is definitely not progressive rock.
 
DavidEduardo said:


Maybe I am confused, but I thought Lee Abrams developed the tight, formatted Superstars format out of what was free-form or "progressive rock" which had little structure and infinite playlists.

R&R, looking for a name for the lists for this very structured format came up with the name "AOR" just as they invented "CHR" to replace "Top 40" and to separate their list from the old school Billboard sales-based charts.

"Classic Rock" as a format took several more decades to evolve.
Click to expand...

Much of the music that dominated classic rock playlists in the '90s, when the format really started to take off, hadn't even been recorded when Superstars launched in the mid '70s. I remember listening to a Superstars station in Little Rock, KLPQ, around 1978 or '79. Very tight playlist, but most of the tracks were current or recurrent. There was an Alan Parsons Project track whose name has been lost in the fog of the passing decades that KLPQ must have played 3 times a day for a month or so.

Funny how Lee Abrams' vision for XM was almost a penance for his Superstars days. Deep, deep playlists. Jocks with "interesting" voices, not "radio" voices. (There was a woman named Cathy Carter on the old XM Cafe channel whose voice was a low mumble, but it must have been "interesting" to Abrams, who also had liners done by people with foreign accents for no logical reason.) And it was Abrams' philosophy at XM that, I think, planted the seed of the anger and frustration you see from the "play all the hits" crowd here, because when he left, the music mix got a lot tighter across the channels, and tightened up still further after the Sirius takeover.
 
DavidEduardo said:


WXRC is more of a rock-leaning classic hits station than a classic rock or progressive station. You can't play Dusty Springfield and be considered "progressive rock".

In fact, the station itself classifies the format as "classic hits" in its Nielsen station information listing. In this, it is like other rock leaning classic hits stations such as KOLA in the similarly sized Riverside / San Bernardino market.

But it is definitely not progressive rock.
Click to expand...
That's how it has been described. Songs they play are not necessarily hits and I don't understand why they get categorized that way.
 
It's sounds egotistical, but truthfully, in print, I have been quoted a lot. Not really that important to me, but one...was, and it was the one that I got quoted the most. It was my way of solving the 7"inch verses 12"inch hang-ups:

"THE HUMAN EAR...CAN NOT REGISTER CHART POSITION....IT CAN ONLY REGISTER...APPEAL."

"Turn The Page" wasn't a single, yet it is Seger's most popular song.
 
Scooter Lesley said:
"Turn The Page" wasn't a single, yet it is Seger's most popular song.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. It's certainly popular in South Carolina. I remember seeing a house cover band in Myrtle Beach do it, and it was the centerpiece of their show. If I remember correctly, the lead singer also played the sax solo.

But I'd suggest Night Moves has been performed more by more people, and gets the loudest response at his shows. Those current stars who cite Seger as an influence always talk about Night Moves. Old Time Rock & Roll still gets a ton of airplay because of Risky Business.
 
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I once had a small discussion with a Pencilneck Consultant,....with my Morning Show partner in the room, playing the...."don't ask me"...stooge part. I stated that Mike & I had $20 on that I said Ziggy Stardust was a number one hit in '72,....while Benson here claimed only in the Top 20. So,...I begged the Consultant to referee the contest, since he(right!) knew the format better than anyone. Well,...he tapped his finger tips together a few times, and sided with Mike to get the $20......I was ripped/devastated, and played the part, until we got in the car. OK, Scooter, what was that all about? Just checking, Bubba,....So, let me in on it! Michael,....the song Ziggy Stardust, was never a single. The single that was released to benefit the LP, was "Starman". Just proving a point!
 
"Progressive rock" is only thought of as such by bongwater types like Cooter who are still stuck in the seventies. All it really is is old-hippie oldies. Of course, youse guys hate all music recorded after you left college (or maybe the Wink Martindale Mail-Order Broadcasting School?) For that matter, there's nothing wrong with editing down "Night Moves" or any other pretentious overlength rockstar-BS song to three and a half minutes TO GET IT PLAYED AND GET IT SOLD. Slashing the Doors' "Light My Fire" from seven-plus minutes to 2:49 was the best thing that ever happened to it. Hey, anybody for the 17-minute version of "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida"? More drum solos, duuuude! MORE COWBELL!!
 
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