overnight talk

[FLjack2]

Most of the syndicated stuff out there is crap. Seriously. Space aliens. Making up characters and "talking" to "yourself?" garbage.

If I were a talk station in a big market, I would hire one or two local people. Pay them minimum and let them GO! It will never be a cash cow for the station, but ratings will never be an issue. Then, you are actually grooming people for your daytime -- someday.

What could the total cost be? You pay two hosts (because I'm sure there will be seriously dead nights.) They are their own producers. And you hopefully never have to worry about:

• what if your host gets sick?
• what if the host needs a day off?
• what about vacations? who is the fill-in?
• what if one needs a day off?
• what if there is an emergency and your host can't make it?

And hire a board op who doubles answering the phones.
You'll never have a recorded show.

3 people and a potential win. I bet the station would tear up in the unranked overnights.

 

[ProducerGuy]

Local overnight only works if you have a large enough potential audience. Since most people are asleep, you need to widen the audience over daytime. Large cities can get away with it, but for everyone else, it's Coast or Red Eye.

 

[MR. JAROME_CALVIN]

There's also "America Tonight with Kate Delaney" That show is the BOMB!!!

 

[wadio]

Kate Delaney sounds like she's asleep much of the time. Try CBS's "Overnight America" with Jon Grayson.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Better idea: one of the major operators (Cumulus?) should originate this in a major market (DFW?), and place it on their stations across the country.

I agree that C2C could use some competition that is centered in the real world... I mostly listen to ESPN or BBC World Service if I'm listening to talk radio after 11pm.

 

[TheBigA]

If I were a talk station in a big market, I would hire one or two local people. Pay them minimum and let them GO! It will never be a cash cow for the station, but ratings will never be an issue. Then, you are actually grooming people for your daytime -- someday.

Have you ever worked overnights? It's awful. Ruins your life. There is no advertising, so it's all expense. Add the utilities, and it's a big chunk of change to throw away for little return.

Then to use it for "grooming people for daytime," that's a really bad idea. Larry King was a major hit in the overnights. He was a total bomb in the daytime. Letterman is a hit at night, and a loser in daytime. The tempo is very different. What works at night is death in the daytime. What will happen is you'll get something at night, and they'll ask for more money. Then they'll leave and go to a bigger market for more money, and you'll be stuck again.

 

[Gregg]

Other overnight hosts... Phil Hendrie, 1-4 am, although I'm not a fan of his one-joke act. And both John Bohannan and John Batchelor work till 1am, so they can be easily run overnight as well. Alan Colmes used to work till 1am but switched to 6-9pm.

But getting back to the original post, I disagree with FLjack on some points.

First, he's suggesting that he'd pay a low wage to two on-air professionals who he's asking to work overnight. I'm not sure who's going to accept that. If they're professional enough to sound good on the air, you gotta pay them a decent wage. If they're not professional enough, who'd want to listen to them?

And you'd have to pay a board op/producer/call screener what his/her daytime counterparts make. You can't have two pay scales for board op/producers.

Most station managers figure they'd rather spend the money on the best daytime shows and hosts they can run when 80% of their audience are listening. Why pay for three salaries for a time slot when so few people are listening?

Yes, in the very largest cities, I might agree. Many large-market Talk stations had live overnight hosts once upon a time. Maybe we should start a second thread on those stations that still have live hosts overnight. Could there be more than just a few? WGN Chicago and WBZ Boston are the only ones I can think of. And WFAN-AM-FM NYC has its own live overnight sports talk hosts. But that may be it.

 

[scott salvatori]

Other overnight hosts...

one of the best late night programs! 7 days per week, live talk from steve sommers, bubba bo atAmericas Truckin Network. 700 WLW Cincinnati

 

[Mario500]

If I were a talk station in a big market, I would hire one or two local people. Pay them minimum and let them GO! It will never be a cash cow for the station, but ratings will never be an issue. Then, you are actually grooming people for your daytime -- someday.

Have you ever worked overnights? It's awful. Ruins your life. There is no advertising, so it's all expense. Add the utilities, and it's a big chunk of change to throw away for little return.

Then to use it for "grooming people for daytime," that's a really bad idea. Larry King was a major hit in the overnights. He was a total bomb in the daytime. Letterman is a hit at night, and a loser in daytime. The tempo is very different. What works at night is death in the daytime. What will happen is you'll get something at night, and they'll ask for more money. Then they'll leave and go to a bigger market for more money, and you'll be stuck again.

Who were you talking about?

 

[wadio]

Most station managers figure they'd rather spend the money on the best daytime shows and hosts they can run when 80% of their audience are listening.

I wonder if stations underestimate how much of their audience also listens at night. Larry King and Art Bell didn't become household names because "nobody" was listening. Hotels might figure that 80% of their room occupancy is at night but that doesn't mean they should ask guests to check out at 10 am each day and back in at 6.

 

[ProducerGuy]

I wonder if stations underestimate how much of their audience also listens at night. Larry King and Art Bell didn't become household names because "nobody" was listening.

They became household names because hundreds of stations combined audiences to make them big. Single market overnight radio only makes sense in big markets.

 

[N1WVQ]

Don't forget Overnight America with Jon Grayson.

 

[wadio]

I wonder if stations underestimate how much of their audience also listens at night. Larry King and Art Bell didn't become household names because "nobody" was listening.

They became household names because hundreds of stations combined audiences to make them big. Single market overnight radio only makes sense in big markets.

Correct.

 

[sshuffield70]

Better idea: one of the major operators (Cumulus?) should originate this in a major market (DFW?), and place it on their stations across the country.

Ahem........I believe it's called "The Midnight Trucking Show".

 

[FLjack2]

Have you ever worked overnights? It's awful. Ruins your life. There is no advertising, so it's all expense. Add the utilities, and it's a big chunk of change to throw away for little return.

Then to use it for "grooming people for daytime," that's a really bad idea. Larry King was a major hit in the overnights. He was a total bomb in the daytime. Letterman is a hit at night, and a loser in daytime. The tempo is very different. What works at night is death in the daytime. What will happen is you'll get something at night, and they'll ask for more money. Then they'll leave and go to a bigger market for more money, and you'll be stuck again.

Yes, I have worked overnights. And yes, it ruins your life. But if you want a job in radio as a talk host or producer, you'll do it.

Of course it's more expensive than running a syndicated program. Duh. But, a smart company would know that it could be worth something. And, I disagree with your contention that Larry King and Letterman are the norm. Find out from AM music jocks - how many of them started out at night or overnight? They polished their skills to make them who they are today.

Last; of course there is a chance they could leave your station for a another market. But I really don't think small markets would ever consider this idea. For them, it's definitely too expensive. And would you rather be the overnight guy in a place like Washington DC, Seattle or Chicago...or the midday guy in Birmingham, Orlando or Oklahama City?

 

[TheBigA]

Of course it's more expensive than running a syndicated program. Duh. But, a smart company would know that it could be worth something.

Smart company? What makes a company smart? One that hires three people to work a shift that brings in no money? Better off hiring one person as a second banana on the morning show. He'll learn pretty quick how to entertain. He'll work 14 hour days, also host the weekend morning show, and he'll make personal appearances at stores and concerts. And when the morning guy retires, you've got someone the audience knows and likes ready to take over. That's what a smart company does.

Find out from AM music jocks - how many of them started out at night or overnight? They polished their skills to make them who they are today.

The ones who started out in the overnights are now in their 60s. That's not how people learn anymore.

 

[Come on]

Most station managers figure they'd rather spend the money on the best daytime shows and hosts they can run when 80% of their audience are listening.

I wonder if stations underestimate how much of their audience also listens at night. Larry King and Art Bell didn't become household names because "nobody" was listening. Hotels might figure that 80% of their room occupancy is at night but that doesn't mean they should ask guests to check out at 10 am each day and back in at 6.

Art Bell is far from being a house hold name. Larry King is almost a house hold name. You're very liberal with the term "household name".

 

[ProducerGuy]

I wonder if stations underestimate how much of their audience also listens at night.

It's not like there aren't ways to measure that. I think they know that very few people are listening.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

Better idea: one of the major operators (Cumulus?) should originate this in a major market (DFW?), and place it on their stations across the country.

Ahem........I believe it's called "The Midnight Trucking Show".

Which no longer exists as it got folded into Red Eye Radio. Even Cumulus/Citadel decided they couldn't support two overnight syndicated radio shows.

 

[wadio]

I wonder if stations underestimate how much of their audience also listens at night.

It's not like there aren't ways to measure that. I think they know that very few people are listening.

AFAIK, there's no reliable way to determine whether a meter holder is awake or asleep. If the meter is placed on a night table and not moved for 8 hours, is the participant assumed to be listening or not? I don't know the answer.

A better indicator might be found at WABC-AM, NY. The station delivers wall-to-wall infomercials Friday night/Saturday morning, people listen, people call and the advertisers continue to buy time. This cycle has been in place for the past decade and seems to prove that a significant audience is awake, listening and responding to advertising, even when the programming is crap.

Remember, it's the ad revenue potential that counts ... not every venue is the Super Bowl -- oops, the Big Game. Overnight radio is not low-hanging fruit ... sales departments don't necessarily see the potential or have the incentive to cultivate it when other dayparts are easier and require less creativity.