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Oy vey!

A

am-fm

Guest
Couple things off the bat here....

1) The consensus here is that AM IBOC is not going to work - the AM band is way too cluttered, and there isnt enough bandwith to play with to get artifact free FM quality sound (in hybrid mode)

2) FM IBOC has a chance, mainly due to multicasting and the evolution of the codec used (the Raphsody radio has a USB port for upgrades, not a bad idea). In the Northeast, there MAY be an issue with hash on the sidebands hurting reception (Western Monmouth County in NJ). Only thing I can complain about is that reception of WNEW and WPLJ seems to have gotten worse lately (and this is in the 96 Caddy with a VERY expensive stock radio)

3)Digital radio is here - however, it truly should be CD quality (and artifact free!). Satellite radio may be "digital", but WKBW in wide bandwith mode sounded better than 60's on 6 on XM. Radio stations should use this oppurtunity to really show the public that FM can give your CD collection a run for its money. Along with IBOC, upgrade the STL's & the TX's if needed. Make sure that the music ripped into the system is as clean as possible.

I love my XM (and Internet Radio - hylitradio.com), but IBOC is a chance to keep up with teens who hate FM, never listen to AM, and have the $$$ to buy a iPod or XM/Sirius reciever. I am an audiophile, and every artifact in a stream drives me nuts. IBOC better be CD quality, or my reciever is going to be on ebay faster than you can say "C-QUAM"<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies
HyLitRadio.com
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>
 
> Couple things off the bat here....
>
> 1) The consensus here is that AM IBOC is not going to work -
> the AM band is way too cluttered, and there isnt enough
> bandwith to play with to get artifact free FM quality sound
> (in hybrid mode)
>
> 2) FM IBOC has a chance, mainly due to multicasting and the
> evolution of the codec used (the Raphsody radio has a USB
> port for upgrades, not a bad idea). In the Northeast, there
> MAY be an issue with hash on the sidebands hurting reception
> (Western Monmouth County in NJ). Only thing I can complain
> about is that reception of WNEW and WPLJ seems to have
> gotten worse lately (and this is in the 96 Caddy with a VERY
> expensive stock radio)
>
> 3)Digital radio is here - however, it truly should be CD
> quality (and artifact free!). Satellite radio may be
> "digital", but WKBW in wide bandwith mode sounded better
> than 60's on 6 on XM. Radio stations should use this
> oppurtunity to really show the public that FM can give your
> CD collection a run for its money. Along with IBOC, upgrade
> the STL's & the TX's if needed. Make sure that the music
> ripped into the system is as clean as possible.
>
> I love my XM (and Internet Radio - hylitradio.com), but IBOC
> is a chance to keep up with teens who hate FM, never listen
> to AM, and have the $$$ to buy a iPod or XM/Sirius reciever.
> I am an audiophile, and every artifact in a stream drives me
> nuts. IBOC better be CD quality, or my reciever is going to
> be on ebay faster than you can say "C-QUAM"
>

May I add a 4th????

4) DONT USE MP3 ADS! Educate the advertiser to use a decent audio product!
 
>
> May I add a 4th????
>
> 4) DONT USE MP3 ADS! Educate the advertiser to use a decent
> audio product!
>


That is a disturbing trend. I hear lots of low-bitrate MP3's from agencies - for some big clients, too!

It sounds bad enough in analog. Add the encoding/decoding of a digital STL and other codecs, and it sounds downright awful!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
A teens view

If I may add something here. As a father or a 20 year old, two 17 year olds and a 12 year old, sound quality is not the issue here. It's content. If you provide them what they want to hear, they will put aside all the low bit rate MP3 CD's, and the iPods and cell phone audio. I have listened to the products the have made and trust me, I wanted to smash the MP3 player and the horribly downloaded music but they don't mind it because they hear what they want without a barrage of commercials and stupid bits. I poll my kids as well as their friends all the time to see where they are getting their music. They will do a few spots but when you get the 5 minute commercial block, forget it, the run and don't come back for hours.
Content, content, content is what we need to address, not if IBOC buzzs a little on adjacent channel or if the coding is a bit off. The problem is, we let the sales department determine to much of our programming and if we don't fix that, it ain't gonna matter how we send the audio, ain't no one gonna be listening. If think I am blowing smoke, ask a teens what they think about radio.
For God sake, my daughters cell phone has TV on it.
We better wake up real fast!
 
Another teen's (and some of his friends') view

> If I may add something here. As a father or a 20 year old,
> two 17 year olds and a 12 year old, sound quality is not the
> issue here. It's content. If you provide them what they want
> to hear, they will put aside all the low bit rate MP3 CD's,
> and the iPods and cell phone audio. I have listened to the
> products the have made and trust me, I wanted to smash the
> MP3 player and the horribly downloaded music but they don't
> mind it because they hear what they want without a barrage
> of commercials and stupid bits. I poll my kids as well as
> their friends all the time to see where they are getting
> their music. They will do a few spots but when you get the 5
> minute commercial block, forget it, the run and don't come
> back for hours.
> Content, content, content is what we need to address, not if
> IBOC buzzs a little on adjacent channel or if the coding is
> a bit off. The problem is, we let the sales department
> determine to much of our programming and if we don't fix
> that, it ain't gonna matter how we send the audio, ain't no
> one gonna be listening. If think I am blowing smoke, ask a
> teens what they think about radio.
> For God sake, my daughters cell phone has TV on it.
> We better wake up real fast!
>

As my signature states, I am sixteen years old. I love radio. I've been exposed to it ever since I was a little kid. However, sometimes I find myself, a dedicated radio fan, thinking, "Gee, these five-minute commercial breaks suck!" or "...Didn't I just hear this song a couple of hours ago?"

However, I see HD Radio multicasts as having the potential to change that. Perhaps THIS could be where broadcasters/programmers aren't afraid to take a chance. Perhaps ads could be run in the form of scrolling text on the receiver's display instead of how they are done today. A guy can dream, can't he?

Most of what I see in my area is that the radio, iPods, and CDs coexist. A lot of people around my age are content listening to the radio, at least for a while. However, I do know one or two people who always listen to their iPods without giving what's on the radio a chance.

HD Radio, especially multicasts, gives radio a chance to reinvent itself IMHO. Will broadcasters take advantage of the opportunity? Only time will tell, I suppose. I hope so.


<P ID="signature">______________
16-year-old radio geek.</P>
 
> That is a disturbing trend. I hear lots of low-bitrate
> MP3's from agencies - for some big clients, too!
>
> It sounds bad enough in analog. Add the encoding/decoding
> of a digital STL and other codecs, and it sounds downright
> awful!
>
Agreed, but I don't think that is why people tune out. It's the seven or eight minutes of back to back spots in a drive time stop set, followed by three or four minutes of mindless drivel from the "morning crew."

I'd sure hate to be the guy who paid for the fourth or fifth position spot. I can hear the car radio buttons being pushed right now...
 
> I love my XM (and Internet Radio - hylitradio.com), but IBOC
> is a chance to keep up with teens who hate FM, never listen
> to AM, and have the $$$ to buy a iPod or XM/Sirius reciever.
> I am an audiophile, and every artifact in a stream drives me
> nuts. IBOC better be CD quality, or my reciever is going to
> be on ebay faster than you can say "C-QUAM"

If that's the case, don't buy one in the first place. CD-Quality means it meets the Red Book standard. Basically, what you put in, you get out, with error correction to ensure it. The minute you take bits and pieces out it ceases to be CD Quality.

It might be kinda, almost, maybe close in a high ambient noise environment, but it'll drive you nuts if you run it through your audiophile stereo system. I pulled both SIRIUS and XM from my system because the artifacts irritated me. In the car, fine. At home they now feed a relatively high quality computer audio system. My car receiver has a single CD player and I have a 12 CD changer. There's no comparison between those and IBUZ, SIRIUS, XM or MP3. To my ears the CD sources blow them all away. Dramatically.

Rich
 
Re: Another teen's (and some of his friends') view

Just remember, until HD2 gets some traction, they will probably not put any commercials on them. That will hook you. Anyway, what advertiser would pay for commercials on a signal with no audience? The only thing I see going on HD2 for quite awhile will be PI type of commercials. But they would be fools for doing that. Let them let the primary analog pay the freight until the HD2 can or is able to carry it's own weight.


> As my signature states, I am sixteen years old. I love
> radio. I've been exposed to it ever since I was a little
> kid. However, sometimes I find myself, a dedicated radio
> fan, thinking, "Gee, these five-minute commercial breaks
> suck!" or "...Didn't I just hear this song a couple of hours
> ago?"
>
> However, I see HD Radio multicasts as having the potential
> to change that. Perhaps THIS could be where
> broadcasters/programmers aren't afraid to take a chance.
> Perhaps ads could be run in the form of scrolling text on
> the receiver's display instead of how they are done today. A
> guy can dream, can't he?
>
> Most of what I see in my area is that the radio, iPods, and
> CDs coexist. A lot of people around my age are content
> listening to the radio, at least for a while. However, I do
> know one or two people who always listen to their iPods
> without giving what's on the radio a chance.
>
> HD Radio, especially multicasts, gives radio a chance to
> reinvent itself IMHO. Will broadcasters take advantage of
> the opportunity? Only time will tell, I suppose. I hope so.
>
 
> >
> > May I add a 4th????
> >
> > 4) DONT USE MP3 ADS! Educate the advertiser to use a
> decent
> > audio product!
> >
>
>
> That is a disturbing trend. I hear lots of low-bitrate
> MP3's from agencies - for some big clients, too!
>
> It sounds bad enough in analog. Add the encoding/decoding
> of a digital STL and other codecs, and it sounds downright
> awful!
>
Unfortunately we lost that battle a long time ago...

I still cringe when I hear certain spots on the air. With two of my stations in HD, (soon to be 3) they stick out like a proverbial sore thumb on them.

This was part of the motivation for moving our music libraries from 256 kbs MP2 to uncompressed PCM. That is about 90% complete at one location and over the next year, it will be at my other site. After all, in the grand scheme of things, hard drives are cheap!

The fewer times through the MPEG grinder the better, I say.
 
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