Pack Your Bags Nicole Sandler!!!

[JimmyJames]

What are your sources on this, and how does it stack up in rock formats? For example, KROQ vs KMET? How many records were stations like KNAC adding?

 

[scooty430]

There is more format diversity now than at any point in the history of radio. The fact of the matter is, the more and more you narrowcast formats, the smaller piece of the pie you attract.

That's quite a load.

Back in the late 80's, you could listen to:

KLOS playing a fairly wide playlist of new and old rock, not just the "well-testing" stuff.
KLSX playing a wider variety of old rock, many tracks that hadn't been heard in awhile
KMPC/The Edge playing some pretty adventurous stuff with "Full Spectrum Rock!"
KNAC playing HEAVY FREAKIN' METAL!
KRTH playing actual oldies, and more than 200 of them. Remember 60s at 6, 70s at 7?....
KNX playing soft rock....later on doing some pretty deep Oldies with Oldies 93.
KROQ playing New Wave, oddball pop from Europe, lots of obscure Depeche Mode and Oingo Boingo, and actually letting DJs choose songs on their shifts.

That's just rock. I believe there was a commercial JAZZ station (KKGO) and a commericial CLASSICAL station, (92.3) neither of which even exist today. There was real MOR, Standards... Those also don't exist today. There was a long-standing country station, another format we wouldn't have now save for a maverick with his own station.

And all of the above had history and some personality. And deeper playlsits. You can't even begin to compare it with now.

 

[scooty430]

Don't forget that wonderful station (well you probably don't think so ) KMPC-FM/The Edge "Full Spectrum Rock 'n' Roll" 1987-1989 with Racheal Donohue, Jim Ladd (yes, Jim Ladd) and the late J.J. Jackson. Also don't forget MARS-FM and Channel 103.1.

Super, KMPC-FM/KEDG-FM was the simply the BEST music station I've ever listened to. Only on for about 18 months, ratings as well as luck challenged, but absolutely professionally run by the personalities you mention, an open playlist that literally covered the gamut of Rock much more than the later incarnations of AAA at KSCA and Channel 103.1. It was a rock station first, AAA second. Every jock (not just say Ladd late at night) had a say over their show and it showed. Rachel Donahue in the morning was great - funny, entertaining, without ever being obnoxious and overbearing, and she played music and lots of it. Perfect for the format. I could go on, but will stop here.

I so wish I would have taped some of it. The Sound is a definite welcome surprise with some definite positive attributes, but it can't hold a candle to the old KMPC-FM.

I agree with every word you posted. Remember John Logic the night DJ? He actually was on earlier in the PM before Jim Ladd arrived and took the 6-10pm shift. Logic was on from 10p-2a and was really really cool. One time I called him with a request (which he honored in 10 minutes) and he told me to be sure to let him or any other DJ know if they started to suck.
Another cool thing he did was what no music station does on a regular basis today... Interact with the listeners. Remember "The Midnight Legal I.D."? Logic would invite listeners to call in just before 12m and he selected one to actually do the FCC-required TOH ID. How fun is that? Rachael would do lots of contest stuff as well. I remember when Jim Ladd was on his last night of the station's existence, he reminded the listeners "You GOT it" meaning of course the listeners (the few of them) really "got" what the station was trying to do. Some great songs they played included "You Got It" and "She's a Mystery To Me"-Roy Orbison; "Everywhere that you're not"-Transformer; "Twist in my Sobriety"-Tanita Tikorem (sp?); "Somewhere Down the Lazy River"-Robbie Robertson; "Copperhead Road"-Steve Earl. Oh man they were the best. I too wish I had taped some of that. Yes, I was happy KSCA was on, but they didn't have the edginess I got from KMPC-FM/KEDG.

This stuff is what makes and keps someone a radio/music fan. Its been lost over the years.

Thanks for bringing back the memory of the "midnight legal ID." It reminded me not only of the loose, fun nature of that station, but also of the days when I was actually awake on weeknights at midnight!

I remember one night when a DJ named Guy Kemp was trying to play the longest songs possible. I think he played In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida and a few other things of that nature. I called up, talked to him in person, and requested "Supper's Ready" by Genesis, which is 22 minutes long. (I was a big prog rock fan at the time.) He actually played it!

I also remember how Logic used to tease Jim Ladd all the time. At one point he had found some cheesey pictures from the seventies, and they were talking about them on the air. Man, how I wished I could see them! (Today they'd post them on the website.) JJ Jackson was also cracking up over these pictures of Ladd.

As you say, something's been lost on the air. It's so corporate and dull.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

That's quite a load.

Is it...well lets see....and we weren't talking late 80's...but thats fine.

Back in the late 80's, you could listen to:

KLOS playing a fairly wide playlist of new and old rock, not just the "well-testing" stuff.

KLOS in the late 80's tested EVERY SINGLE song they played. And they didn't play any MORE songs
in an hour than they do now.

KLSX playing a wider variety of old rock, many tracks that hadn't been heard in awhile

Says who? KLSX was one of the tightest Classic Rock stations in the country.

KMPC/The Edge playing some pretty adventurous stuff with "Full Spectrum Rock!"

Much of which was duplicated on KLOS.

KNAC playing HEAVY FREAKIN' METAL!

Not much of that now...is there....?

KRTH playing actual oldies, and more than 200 of them. Remember 60s at 6, 70s at 7?....

KRTH plays more than double that amount NOW....and yes I do remember the 70's at 7....heard it this week in fact.

KNX playing soft rock....later on doing some pretty deep Oldies with Oldies 93.
KROQ playing New Wave, oddball pop from Europe, lots of obscure Depeche Mode and Oingo Boingo, and actually letting DJs choose songs on their shifts.

They traded that in for actual listeners.
And thats all New Wave-y isn't it?

That's just rock. I believe there was a commercial JAZZ station (KKGO) and a commericial CLASSICAL station, (92.3) neither of which even exist today.

You left out KQLZ and MARS-FM.
Does commercial matter, if we're talking about diversity?

There was real MOR, Standards... Those also don't exist today. There was a long-standing country station, another format we wouldn't have now save for a maverick with his own station.

But it DOES exist today. But because he's a maverick, it could disappear any moment.


So what about, HOT AC KBIG, a KROQ that has much more music diversity than New Wave, Hip Hop,
Indie 103.1 which covers a lot of ground that KROQ doesnt trend upon, KYSR doing an adult rock thing,
KTWV, which is more musically diverse than it has ever been, MOVIN, MEGA, JACK.

My point is count up the songs...more today.
The consolidation of radio (whether you believe its good or bad) has indeed led to format diversification its the reason you dont see 3 CHR's or 4 AOR's in major markets much anymore.

With KROQ, MARS, PIRATE, KMET, KNAC, KLOS, KMPC, KCBS and KRTH (and whomever I left out) all doing the rock thing within a few years of one another in the 80's....do you really think LA was DIVERSE.
It was good...for the most part...but diverse? Hardly.
during the 80's.....

 

[scooty430]

That's quite a load.

Is it...well lets see....and we weren't talking late 80's...but thats fine.

Back in the late 80's, you could listen to:

KLOS playing a fairly wide playlist of new and old rock, not just the "well-testing" stuff.

KLOS in the late 80's tested EVERY SINGLE song they played. And they didn't play any MORE songs
in an hour than they do now.

KLSX playing a wider variety of old rock, many tracks that hadn't been heard in awhile

Says who? KLSX was one of the tightest Classic Rock stations in the country.

KMPC/The Edge playing some pretty adventurous stuff with "Full Spectrum Rock!"

Much of which was duplicated on KLOS.

KNAC playing HEAVY FREAKIN' METAL!

Not much of that now...is there....?

KRTH playing actual oldies, and more than 200 of them. Remember 60s at 6, 70s at 7?....

KRTH plays more than double that amount NOW....and yes I do remember the 70's at 7....heard it this week in fact.

KNX playing soft rock....later on doing some pretty deep Oldies with Oldies 93.
KROQ playing New Wave, oddball pop from Europe, lots of obscure Depeche Mode and Oingo Boingo, and actually letting DJs choose songs on their shifts.

They traded that in for actual listeners.
And thats all New Wave-y isn't it?

That's just rock. I believe there was a commercial JAZZ station (KKGO) and a commericial CLASSICAL station, (92.3) neither of which even exist today.

You left out KQLZ and MARS-FM.
Does commercial matter, if we're talking about diversity?

There was real MOR, Standards... Those also don't exist today. There was a long-standing country station, another format we wouldn't have now save for a maverick with his own station.

But it DOES exist today. But because he's a maverick, it could disappear any moment.


So what about, HOT AC KBIG, a KROQ that has much more music diversity than New Wave, Hip Hop,
Indie 103.1 which covers a lot of ground that KROQ doesnt trend upon, KYSR doing an adult rock thing,
KTWV, which is more musically diverse than it has ever been, MOVIN, MEGA, JACK.

My point is count up the songs...more today.
The consolidation of radio (whether you believe its good or bad) has indeed led to format diversification its the reason you dont see 3 CHR's or 4 AOR's in major markets much anymore.

With KROQ, MARS, PIRATE, KMET, KNAC, KLOS, KMPC, KCBS and KRTH (and whomever I left out) all doing the rock thing within a few years of one another in the 80's....do you really think LA was DIVERSE.
It was good...for the most part...but diverse? Hardly.
during the 80's.....

Yes, commercial radio was more diverse.

Then, we had classical, jazz, MOR, Standards, Heavy Metal, Dance, Oldies, Soft Rock (KOST is not this anymore), Country, R and B Oldies (KACE) and probably more I've forgotten.

Now, we have none of these. (Country, without Saul, would be out too.)

What have we added? Hip Hop? OK, that's one, though it was added what, 15 years ago? The Wave? That was started in 87, and was actually more unique at the time. They now share songs with other stations.

Indie's indeed good. But it's a shoestring station that half the region cannot hear. Not really an added format.....it's playing the role that KMPC/The Edge, and to a certain extent KROQ, did.

I'll concede there are perhaps more Spanish-language stations, which is a good thing considering the population.

As for KLOS and KLSX, I listened to them. A lot. They played WAY more songs then. Not per hour. Or per week. I mean number of songs that gained airplay over time. Yes, KLOS tested songs, but they played more, and they had good outlets in the schedule for music fans. At noon, for an hour, Bob Coburn was clearly choosing his own tracks with Noon Time Nuggets. Gino Michellini would do all kinds of unusual things in his shift, especially when Joe Walsh was visiting. Steve Downs played six hand-picked songs himself at night.

As for KLSX, yes, it and later KLOS tightened up the playlists, and that's when the ratings went down the toilet. KLSX reacted by turning into talk. KLOS reacted by firing the old DJs and playing Stone Temple Pilots and Alice in Chains for a year. (Didn't work.)

KRTH..... Yes, it now has a few more hundred songs to play because they added 70s back in. It's not as bad as it was in the Jay Coffey (sp?) time. And yes, I know the 70s at 7 is back. But the old 60s at 6 and 70s at 7 were feature programs that played deeper cuts. The new 70s at 7 is just the same format with the 60s songs removed. And note.....there is no 60s at 6 anymore.

And no 50s....anywhere on the radio at all.

I don't think the KBIGs, Stars, Movins, KOSTs, and KRTHs are very different from each other. Or different ENOUGH. "Stayin' Alive," for example. I think every one of those stations has spun that tune in the last year. Just an example. "Brown Eyed Girl" is probably played on Jack, KLOS, KRTH, KOST....and I'm sure the new 100.3 will be diggin' that one out too!

Nor is the "new" Star much different from KROQ. Both play a crapload of Red Hot Chili Peppers and Linkin Park and call it exciting.

There is too much duplication and shared playlists. And too many small playlists of OLD music. (And please don't say Power 106 or KIIS or KHJ or KLOS had small playlists back in the glory days. Their playlists constantly changed as new songs came and went.)

Everyone wants to reach that "top demo" based on all the golden research. The result. Blandness and safe choices.

It's a bit like cable TV. Remember when TLC was "The Learning Channel?" Now it's about reality programming. Remember when A and E was about "Arts" and "Entertainment?" Now it's about reality programming. Remember when Bravo was about arts films? Now it's about reality programming. Remember when the History Channel showed programs about history? Now it's about reality programming. Discovery? No more nature. It's a guy driving a cab for prizes in Manhattan, and monster trucks.

 

[JimmyJames]

Remember 95.9 before it went to The Fish - I have an aircheck of them somewhere where they're pulling out some oddball cuts for a Hot AC.

KBIG used to do a variant of Hot AC that I couldn't find anywhere else - and even included some true dance and cool remixes on Thump Radio.

Star used to be fairly unique in the market in terms of modern AC.

KROQ and KLOS definitely used to have broader playlists and cover a broader range of styles within their "rock" formats.

There's still plenty of good new hard rock out there that a modern version of KNAC could tap into. Not the light and repetitive stuff that KROQ locked onto.

 

[davideduardo]

KBIG used to do a variant of Hot AC that I couldn't find anywhere else - and even included some true dance and cool remixes on Thump Radio.

yes, because it had 50% or more Hispanic cume and AQH; it was, essentially, an Hispanic core station with some non-Hispanics.

There's still plenty of good new hard rock out there that a modern version of KNAC could tap into. Not the light and repetitive stuff that KROQ locked onto.

KNAC had been losing money for years before Fred Sands sold it to Liberman in late 1994. There were lots of bumper stickers, but not enough measured audience to make a go of a 1 share station... like KSCA, not enough numbers to make it work.

 

[radioresearcher]

KBIG used to do a variant of Hot AC that I couldn't find anywhere else - and even included some true dance and cool remixes on Thump Radio.

yes, because it had 50% or more Hispanic cume and AQH; it was, essentially, an Hispanic core station with some non-Hispanics.

There's still plenty of good new hard rock out there that a modern version of KNAC could tap into. Not the light and repetitive stuff that KROQ locked onto.

KNAC had been losing money for years before Fred Sands sold it to Liberman in late 1994. There were lots of bumper stickers, but not enough measured audience to make a go of a 1 share station... like KSCA, not enough numbers to make it work.

KNAC was niched ... it was so focused on metal at that time - and had a signal that really didn't get into the O.C., the Valley, or Santa Clarita, all key areas for any kind of Rock.

105.5 was not a good signal for KNAC but a Wilson stick is.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

KNAC was niched ... it was so focused on metal at that time - and had a signal that really didn't get into the O.C., the Valley, or Santa Clarita, all key areas for any kind of Rock.

105.5 was not a good signal for KNAC but a Wilson stick is.

Seems as though no formats ever failed in Los Angeles. They always seemed to just have poor signals.

 

[davideduardo]

Seems as though no formats ever failed in Los Angeles. They always seemed to just have poor signals.

That would be funny if it were not so true.

I can remember sitting in the office of someone with initials BW in the offices next to Forest Lawn in Burbank and hearing the KSCA format described as being excellent, but not able to compete due to the bad signal.

6 months later, that bad signal was #1 in Los Angeles.

 

[radioresearcher]

Seems as though no formats ever failed in Los Angeles. They always seemed to just have poor signals.

That would be funny if it were not so true.

I can remember sitting in the office of someone with initials BW in the offices next to Forest Lawn in Burbank and hearing the KSCA format described as being excellent, but not able to compete due to the bad signal.

6 months later, that bad signal was #1 in Los Angeles.

LOL and so right on. David - I do think 105.5 on its own was not a good signal for Rock and the KNAC product wasn't that good. But KSCA was not a signal problem, it was a bad product that didn't work.

 

[hbrownpc]

Seems as though no formats ever failed in Los Angeles. They always seemed to just have poor signals.

That would be funny if it were not so true.

I can remember sitting in the office of someone with initials BW in the offices next to Forest Lawn in Burbank and hearing the KSCA format described as being excellent, but not able to compete due to the bad signal.

6 months later, that bad signal was #1 in Los Angeles.

LOL and so right on. David - I do think 105.5 on its own was not a good signal for Rock and the KNAC product wasn't that good. But KSCA was not a signal problem, it was a bad product that didn't work.

The KSCA signal is perfect for a Spanish-language format, but not for an upscale Triple A audience. That said, the 103.1 signal, which hit the westside and Orange County should have worked better for Triple A. I think it didn't because the station was the Clear Channel mainstream version of Triple A. The Sound seems to be a much better mix, right from the start.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

LOL and so right on. David - I do think 105.5 on its own was not a good signal for Rock and the KNAC product wasn't that good. But KSCA was not a signal problem, it was a bad product that didn't work.

Pshaww worked for me!! 8)

Look the fans of AAA and The Sound in particular are not swayed by its detractors --- but you all knew that, didn't you?

It must be fun to pick apart anything that doesn't appeal to the mass market out there. Just because McDonalds has the most restaurants in the World, does that mean its good?? By the same token, just because few people like sushi (me, I love sushi) does that mean sushi is bad?

Kripes, we just want a little slice of the pie. There is so little choice on terrestrial radio for fans of The Sound's format, we are going to enjoy it while we can. Yeh David your comments about that statement are SOOOO predictable I won't even predict them

 

[SuperRadioFan]

The KSCA signal is perfect for a Spanish-language format, but not for an upscale Triple A audience. That said, the 103.1 signal, which hit the westside and Orange County should have worked better for Triple A. I think it didn't because the station was the Clear Channel mainstream version of Triple A. The Sound seems to be a much better mix, right from the start.

I agree, CC didn't know how to execute the format correctly in Southern California. BTW I had no signal problems driving around Mission Viejo yesterday ... although I guess auto radios are better than at home radios (?)

 

[davideduardo]

The KSCA signal is perfect for a Spanish-language format, but not for an upscale Triple A audience. That said, the 103.1 signal, which hit the westside and Orange County should have worked better for Triple A. I think it didn't because the station was the Clear Channel mainstream version of Triple A. The Sound seems to be a much better mix, right from the start.

The KSCA signal and the 100.3 "Sound" signal are virtually identical (about a 2.5% difference in coverage, or less than one mile for the 70 dbu contour).

The fact is that the Hispanic population is just as dispersed as the general market population... there is no part of the metro that does not have lots of Hispanics, from Beverly Hills to Huntington Beach.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Look the fans of AAA and The Sound in particular are not swayed by its detractors --- but you all knew that, didn't you?

Hey, Cubs fans dont give up so easily either....doesnt mean they'll win.

It must be fun to pick apart anything that doesn't appeal to the mass market out there. Just because McDonalds has the most restaurants in the World, does that mean its good??

Actually it does. If it weren't a strong product that appealed to a MASS AUDIENCE it wouldn't be the most successful restaurants in the world.

Kripes, we just want a little slice of the pie. There is so little choice on terrestrial radio for fans of The Sound's format, we are going to enjoy it while we can. Yeh David your comments about that statement are SOOOO predictable I won't even predict them

A little piece, thats nice...but in a business sense it probably won't work. By the way, Polka fans could make the same argument.

 

[radioresearcher]

I actually still think the 103.1 signals are perfect for a Triple A format. They cover quite a bit of the metros upscale non-ethnic audience. "Channel 103-1" actually had some acceptable 25-54 numbers - not agency respectable - but competitive.

101.9 and 100.3 are still Mount Wilson signals at the end of the day and they have proven over the years that with good programming, they can succeed.

 

[JimmyJames]

Problem with the McD's vs sushi argument.

I can eat at either establishment - in a lot of markets, both remain profitable.

In many radio markets, I don't have the choice. If I don't want a burger, I'm screwed.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Problem with the McD's vs sushi argument.

I can eat at either establishment - in a lot of markets, both remain profitable.

In many radio markets, I don't have the choice. If I don't want a burger, I'm screwed.

The assumption is that they are both profitable. They are not.
If you were in a town and a sushi restuarant opened and failed,
and then another experienced restaurant owner opened a sushi restaurant and THAT failed too....
would you go into that town to open....a SUSHI restaurant?? Bonneville thinks so.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

I actually still think the 103.1 signals are perfect for a Triple A format. They cover quite a bit of the metros upscale non-ethnic audience. "Channel 103-1" actually had some acceptable 25-54 numbers - not agency respectable - but competitive.

Not true.
Here's a list of stations that continually beat Channel 103.1 in 25-54.
The station underperformed.

KROQ
KIIS
KLVE
KCBS
KLOS
KOST
KBIG
KRTH
KFI
KTWV
KZLA