• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Paging Dr. Gleeson

Hey, big Dave, I'm a bit puzzled by the conventional wisdom.
We're told advertisers favor the younger demos, but we're also told those are the people who are turning away from radio. Formats that appeal to those over 50 are being abandoned, but that's the demo with the most money. And, since the children of people in that age group have grown and moved out, those should be the people with the most disposable income. Add to that the baby boom demographic bulge. There's more of them. Why aren't the 45-75 demos the most lucrative? Is it too hard to market to those folks? Do stations with older demos find the local, direct sale ad dollars?
Just wondering. Your thoughts please, sir.
 
grantchester said:
Hey, big Dave, I'm a bit puzzled by the conventional wisdom.
We're told advertisers favor the younger demos, but we're also told those are the people who are turning away from radio. Formats that appeal to those over 50 are being abandoned, but that's the demo with the most money. And, since the children of people in that age group have grown and moved out, those should be the people with the most disposable income. Add to that the baby boom demographic bulge. There's more of them. Why aren't the 45-75 demos the most lucrative? Is it too hard to market to those folks? Do stations with older demos find the local, direct sale ad dollars?
Just wondering. Your thoughts please, sir.

Hey. I had to laugh at the title of this post, as our Director of Engineering in LA calls me Dr. Gleason, much to the confusion of the newer staff members!

Anyway...

The considerations on this topic are pretty complicated, but I can give you a Cliff's Notes version.

Advertisers that use ad agencies (local, regional or national) take their demgraphic goals from the client. The client will usually be very specific as to the demos they want to reach. Clients that manufacture have generally designed the product and even the packaging with one consumer model in mind, and that means demos, lifestyle, etc. Retail and service providers have data on who constitutes the most profitable segments of the population for whatever they offer.

The general feeling is that the main reason for not targeting 55+ in on radio is that the cost per sale is high. The simplest explanation is that it takes more ads over more time to get a change in buying patterns. This, in turn, means that the cost per sale increases, often to a point of no return on investment. In other words, you can get results, but the cost is high and you make no money on the sale.

The larger the market, the more agency business you get vs. direct sales. Remember that the top 10 radio markets represent nearly a third of all radio revenue in the country! So agency campaigns may only go a few dozen markets deep at times, yet they can get well over 60% of the US population by just buying the top 50 radio markets.

(This is why oldies and even standards are much more viable in smaller markets, where direct accounts are less demo and ratings driven and more results driven. Same goes for suburban stations in big markets).

Agencies are told who to buy in terms of demos. They establish a cost goal, called Cost Per Point (CPP) for each market based on how many people a ratings point represents in each one. Stations submit rates against the target demo, and get bought based on ratings and efficiency of delivery. The station can not sway the demo target, so having lots of out of demo listeners makes no difference... the buyer only looks at the target. So, radio has little if any control over the ages selected... because they are a client mandate and when an agency does a major naitonal or regional buy, they are looking at dozens and dozens of markets and hundreds of stations... and not taking pitches from out of demo "suppliers."

Obviously, there may be some consideration of format... an agency with no Spanish creative may not buy Spanish language stations. Or a personal care item for a specific ethnicity may only buy stations that target that group. Similarly, a high end product may look at high income composition, but still in the demo the staiton delivers. When you think about income, though, it is necessary to break some stereotypes; the biggest Lexus dealer in LA has a mostly Hispanic clientele. At the end of the process, it is all about the client demo specification, with subsets based on specific user groups.

Of course, 25-54 is a broad demo. Many buys are far more concentrated, like 25-34 women as an example. In LA, so far this year, we have not seen one 55+ buy come up. Unless you are in the 18-54 demos, you have a slim chance.

While there is some erosion in 18-24 and 18-34, the 25-54 is not off significantly. And the erosion, considering all the "new media" is not horrible, just unpleasant. Since radio is priced on what it delivers, rates are set by who is listening, not by who is not. And listening to major stations is big and saleable.

Hope this helps.
 
So what's the deal, David? Are you hispanic... as Eduardo would indicate? Or are you Gleason, and just posing as a minority with local value--like a certain afternoon guy on KLTY.
 
Yep. The Master of the Grand illusion is from Cleveland.
 
SmokeRing said:
So what's the deal, David? Are you hispanic... as Eduardo would indicate? Or are you Gleason, and just posing as a minority with local value--like a certain afternoon guy on KLTY.

In the US, "Hispanic" is a culture, not a race, ethnicity or nationality. By that standard, I guess I am Hispanic as I have lived in Latin America or a US Hispanic community for nearly 45 years, from my early teens. Amusingly, twice in Puerto Rico, the Census classified me as Hispanic because, in PR, the Census is all done door to door and they consider language usage the determining factor... if you answer the door in Spanish, you are Hispanic.

"Eduardo" is a given name, and relates to my heritage which is Celtic from Galicia in Spain.
 
Gee. I am also Teutonic. Aleutian,Cherokee, Irish, Dutch.

There ya go "embellshing" the facts again in your narrow focus world.
 
grantchester said:
Hey, big Dave, I'm a bit puzzled by the conventional wisdom.
We're told advertisers favor the younger demos, but we're also told those are the people who are turning away from radio. Formats that appeal to those over 50 are being abandoned, but that's the demo with the most money. And, since the children of people in that age group have grown and moved out, those should be the people with the most disposable income. Add to that the baby boom demographic bulge. There's more of them. Why aren't the 45-75 demos the most lucrative? Is it too hard to market to those folks? Do stations with older demos find the local, direct sale ad dollars?
Just wondering. Your thoughts please, sir.
The Old Gringo covered most of it, but to add one thing- the 45-75 may have MORE listeners, but the older you are, the less likely you are to radically change your buying habits. In other words, That 22 year old might try a new beer because it's got a funny ad campaign, hot spokesmodel, cute animal mascot, etc...Where your Grandfather has been drinking pabst Blue Ribbon for 50 years and ain't about to change.

And take a look at who the top radio advertisers are- car dealers, resturants, car insurance companies, beer, soft drinks, etc etc...Mass products moved to a mass audience-

Persoanlly, I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy- stations don'tthink they can make money with an older demo, so they don't program to it, which means less older people listen, which means stations are lesslikely to be succesful with an older leaning format, so they skew younger which mean less old people listen, etc etc...
I spent some time at KLUV in the early 90's...And when I look at some of the playlists I still have and compare it to what they're playing today, you can see the change...A lot more stuff these days that sounds like classic rock and a lot less of that 50's and early 60's era 'oldies'...
 
David said: the cost per sale is high.

Thanks. That explains the thinking of the agencies quite well. I'm inspired to launch into some kind of manifesto directed at marketing mass media at the older demos, but any way I look at it, it seems like a lot of work (not the manifesto, the execution). And, it's hard to quantify the effectiveness of an individual advertising campaign, so how could you go up against the conventional wisdom?
My gut tells me the under-served older demos could be more loyal to media that meet their wants and needs. How to acheive that loyalty and quantify it is the hard part. Perhaps commercial broadcasters have abandoned us to paid media and NPR.
That rubs me the wrong way. Smaller markets, where response is more direct, might actually have media serving the wizened, grizzled ancient listener/viewer.
Still, the baby boomers re-wrote the rules before... maybe we can bust out and actually find a way to serve them with free, over the air, commercial media again.
 
Couple of things-
TV networks skew older (generally) read today that the AVERAGE age of a FOX News viewer is 71.
All the cable TV news shows (again generally speaking) skew in the 40's-50's-60's. Why do you think you see so many adds for Fidelity, Chuck Schwab, etc? Because who has a pretty good nest egg built up, the 25 year old, or the 54 year old?
THAT is the thing to keep in mind. That often advertisers can get a "cleaner" buy by going to a different media. i.e. If you're Cadillac, rather than spend a couple million on a radio campaign, why not advertise on the Golf Channel or during tourney coverage...Or be the official car sponsor of teh Byron Nelson and get your vehicles in front of a bunch of old white folks that like to golf- one of your prime demos...
Why buy dozens/hundreds of local radio stations when you can get nationalcoverage through TV, etc...

#2- the more homogenous your audience, the easier it is to sell- if it's a coveted demo...The Ticket's audience is something like 90% male 25-54. So if you're trying to 'get' men, 90 cents out of every dollar is hitting it's mark. Compare that to KZPS, which, last time I worked there, was about 60/40 Male. There, only 60c of each dollar is 'effective...
 
Re: Paging Dr. Gleason

I'm just hoping there's something between Perry Como and Jethro Tull.
Something between Bill Bennett and Russ Martin.
I find little pockets of programming here and there, like the free-form show on 90.1 on Sunday nights, (plus PHC and the Celtic show on Sat). The blues shows and the Grateful dead hour on KNON. Occasionaly KAAM will surprise and delight me.
And WRR has become my default button, when the news isn't on. I enjoy Beatles for Breakfast, Jody and his crew on 98.7, Dorsey and his gang on KSCS, and Bo and Jim on KZPS. I'll listen to Ernie on 1080, David and Mark on the other big 'un, sometimes I'll even seek out that goober in the morning on k-sky. Plus the catholics are saying mass and rattling beads on the air now, so maybe this old geezer is being served....
 
This thread has had more intelligent, factual & worthwhile information about our industry than any I've seen here in quite a while.
 
grantchester said:
David said: the cost per sale is high.

Thanks. That explains the thinking of the agencies quite well. I'm inspired to launch into some kind of manifesto directed at marketing mass media at the older demos, but any way I look at it, it seems like a lot of work (not the manifesto, the execution). And, it's hard to quantify the effectiveness of an individual advertising campaign, so how could you go up against the conventional wisdom?
My gut tells me the under-served older demos could be more loyal to media that meet their wants and needs. How to acheive that loyalty and quantify it is the hard part. Perhaps commercial broadcasters have abandoned us to paid media and NPR.
That rubs me the wrong way. Smaller markets, where response is more direct, might actually have media serving the wizened, grizzled ancient listener/viewer.
Still, the baby boomers re-wrote the rules before... maybe we can bust out and actually find a way to serve them with free, over the air, commercial media again.

Just one thing, probably due to my not being as clear as I could about the agency client relatonship.

The agency does not set demos. They are done by the client, based on the design of the product, who the packaging was designed ot appeal to, or the biggest buyers of services or shoppers at retail. In other words, where does the money get the biggest amount of return.

Most mass market products are not targeted by thier manufacturer at 55+. Companies like P&G spend tens of millions a year on research to develop poructs for specific age groups, and they demand the agency buy against those demos and no other. So radio, which has no contact with the marketing department at agency clients, has no control of demo selection, nor does the agency.
 
You said: The agency does not set demos. They are done by the client.

Got it. That's where the conventional wisdom resides. I've been thinking about where my dollars go... gasoline, utilities, food, cleaning supplies, light bulbs, car repairs, doctors checkups and dental work, property taxes, and the guy I'll have to hire to fix that old fence behind the house. Wish I could figure out a way to get those businesses to support the kind of media I'd like to consume.
In the meantime, I guess I can free-load off those advertisers supporting Recurdlia, reggation, estrellas exitos tambien...
>note- that's a joke.<
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom