PANDORA IS NOT RADIO! WHAT IS GOING ON?

[joshzz]

It seems like everyday there is more hype about PANDORA. It's being called radio but it is not. It's nothing more than a jukebox developed to cater to the taste of each individual based on its interpretation of what one likes and what one dislikes.

That's not radio and people from Inside Radio, etc., should stop referring it as such. Just because something can play music doesn't mean its radio... Hey, because my cassette player, plays music from tapes, it must be a radio... My record player plays music ... it too must be a radio.

Pandora is a form of an Ipod nothing more.

 

[Tom Wells]

And my Edison cylinder player is radio by that measure.
"Radio" is 530 khz to 30 mhz and 85 to 107.9 mhz. Wifi and phone apps are not radio, but can "almost" be made to behave as radio.
Internet is not radio. Radio uses "ether", and a wifi link doesn't really qualify as radio, since it only behaves in an almost optical line of sight fashion.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

We all understand the logic that both of you are following. And if you want to have a discussion that follows some kind of rules of debate and logic, you are both right. We who have some kind of connection to "radio" understand that.

Maybe radio has done a poor job of "industry protection". We don't have the kind of junk-yard dog mentality that is needed by a good copyright or patent or trademark lawyer.

For the rest of the world.... people who don't own a part of a radio station, people who never worked in a radio station, people who wouldn't recognize a radio station sitting beside the road if they drove past it, "radio" is used simply to describe an audio source.

Got the sniffles? You turn to your wife and you ask: "Do you have a Kleenex?" What you want is a tissue or a handkerchief. You don't really care if it is store brand, a napkin from the last visit to McDonald's, or a genuine Kleenex.

Sitting in someones office you are handed a document that you find interesting. Unless you are a salesman of reproduction machines, you are likely to say: "Can I have of Xerox of this?" You are not going to be concerned whether the COPY is produced on a Konica, a Minolta, a Xerox or a Brother. You just want a reproduction.

If I have allergies, I may be very, very specific about what kind of cellulose product I want to use to mop up my sniffles. If I am an artist with the kind of color-consciousness possessed by the woman I am married to, I may enquire about the variety of the reproduction machines available in your office and I may be very, very specific about which machine is used to copy the document.

Radio seems hell-bent on eliminating every ingredient of programming that could make it different than Muzak, Pandora, in-store retail-audio a-la-Walmart or a $19 mp3 player. What is the industry doing that would cause Joe the Plumber to think there is a distinction?

 

[bamatide]

PANDORA is radio to rookies of Internet radio. The old school internet radio listeners (I am talking listeners from the early 2000's) hate PANDORA - they like the programming and FM sound much better. New people to internet radio (last 3 years) love PANDORA because they do not know any better. PANDORA has spent MILLIONS in marketing.. The general public doesn't know about other internet radio yet.

 

[xmusicmatt]

PANDORA is radio to rookies of Internet radio. The old school internet radio listeners (I am talking listeners from the early 2000's) hate PANDORA - they like the programming and FM sound much better. New people to internet radio (last 3 years) love PANDORA because they do not know any better. PANDORA has spent MILLIONS in marketing.. The general public doesn't know about other internet radio yet.

Pandora can't even really be considered "internet radio" .. their more of a on demand service (without instant requests)... their streams are programmed catered to the folk who "recomend" or "request" songs .. It's almost an iPOD online more than anything.


Radio is something i consider personality driven.. content that is compelling, not just music on shuffle.

I have no interest in Pandora.. I can do the same thing with my iPOD.. except I am guarntieed to hear what I want that way.

 

[vsa]

Look, if it's not amplitude modulated, if it's not broadcasting Fibber McGhee, Jack Benny or The Shadow, if it's not sponsored by Lucky Strike, or if it's not coming out of a box containing at least one tube - it's not radio!

Dad gummit!!!

Besides, this Internet thing is just a fad.

 

[TheBigA]

I have no interest in Pandora.. I can do the same thing with my iPOD.. except I am guarntieed to hear what I want that way.

Not exactly. Your iPod can't find music you haven't downloaded. The music genome can.

What distinguishes radio from an iPod is its unpredictability. Pandora can be unpredictable.

In that way, and in the way that it "transmits" music to you, rather than draws from saved files, is what makes it like radio.

 

[joshzz]

That still doesn't quantify it as radio . There may differences with ipod, the record player, a juke box and Pandora but they are all essentially the same. They play music.

If that's all radio did then I probably wouldn't be listening to it.

You'll never hear a live radio personality on Pandora and that's why panodora is not radio .. it's simply just another music player.

josh

 

[TheBigA]

That still doesn't quantify it as radio .

By definition, it does. An iPod is not radio, but Pandora is. If the contest rests elsewhere and is transported to you, then it's radio. If the content is yours, either on your drive or in your collection, then it's not radio.

But "personality" is not a requirement, except maybe to you. You don't have to listen to it, and you don't have to like it. But it can still be considered radio.

By the way, the folks at Pandora say they may be adding personalities and information to their service at some point. And they don't view that as a change in what they do.

 

[joshzz]

That would mean that :

1) When my friend plays a song over the phone for me to listen to - whether it originates from his CD player, etc, then I am actually listening to radio.

2) when I visit my doctor's office and listen to the CD player being piped over his ceiling speakers, then I am actually listening to radio.

3) playing a song on YOu tube would then qualify it as listening or in this case, viewing radio..

Sorry, I can't buy that... Not Radio.

 

[Prais]

RADIO where I live in Grand Rapids, MI, is terrible. It's automated and/or ignorant.

I OFTEN listen to WGN, Chicago, for news on the hour and half hour then, use either Pandora or my I-pod the rest of the hour.

DJ's nowadays can add NOTHING to the 40's/50's music I enjoy. Other music is mostly dreck, anyway.

 

[TheBigA]

That would mean that :

1) When my friend plays a song over the phone for me to listen to - whether it originates from his CD player, etc, then I am actually listening to radio.

2) when I visit my doctor's office and listen to the CD player being piped over his ceiling speakers, then I am actually listening to radio.

3) playing a song on YOu tube would then qualify it as listening or in this case, viewing radio..

Sorry, I can't buy that... Not Radio.

 

[TheBigA]

Sorry, I can't buy that... Not Radio.

I think you're placing your personal definition on a device, based on recent experience, and restricting it by that definition.

Country singer George Jones has been saying that today's country music doesn't sound like the music he made 40 years ago, therefore it isn't country music. It should be called something else. But he's restricting the general classification of country music by his own experience. The music he made in the 60s didn't sound like the country music of the 30s and 40s either. Changes were made in instrumentation and presentation that made his music sound different. So therefore, his music isn't country music either.

The concept of personalities hosting music shows was popularized in the 1950s. Prior to that, radio stations didn't play recorded music, and didn't have personalities hosting shows that featured recorded music. In fact, the playing of recorded music was against the law, and recordings had labels on them that said "Not For Broadcast." So by your definition, radio wasn't invented until the 1950s.

Radio evolves and changes. Just because it's different from what it once was doesn't mean it can no longer be called radio. Otherwise, we'd still have big pieces of furniture in our living rooms with tubes playing Fibber McGee & Molly.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I would gladly give credit to the original author if I could remember the source, but two or three years ago I remember reading someone who tip-toed through this linguistic field of land mines and purposely and awkwardly began discussing "audio based advertising delivery".

Those of us in the industry (or used to be) really have a hair-splitting allegiance to "radio". Those of us who plan to participate in discourse in the 21st Century have to focus not on what makes for good radio, but "what makes for effective audio based communication".

I own a very small fleet of mp3 players. I'm not fully happy with any of them. They were all designed with the idea that I would want to put my library of personal-music-favorites in memory. One of them is wonderful at taking an installed library of tunes and reshuffling the order of the playlist every time I turn it on.

Here's the rub. I use them when I go walking. I have itunes gather up all my favorite Podcasts. I want to install them on my player in the order/sequence I prefer for TODAY'S walk. If I run into someone while walking and we choose to converse, I can pause my player or turn it off. Leave it in pause and it will turn itself off. When the conversation is over I want to go back to where I left off in the speech or interview. Try to find a model that will do that. Try to find one in the store that tells on the package if it does that or not. try to find a clerk in a store who knows if it will do that or not.

Sorry for the detour. And now we return to the scheduled discussion. If the Podcasts I load on my player are recordings of something originally broadcast on the radio, am I listening to radio or not?

P.S. The care, feeding and cultivation of an mp3 player if you use it the way I do requires way too much time and pampering. There are some days I just leave it at home and talk to my self. Gives the neighbors something to talk about.

 

[nitnitr]

If radio is actually emanating from the airwaves, I can agree to that. I can also agree to the notion of calling a true streaming station Internet radio. Pandora is just a jukebox.

I run an Internet station, but I do consider it webcasting. If I had a low power AM or FM then I would consider it true radio.

That said, I am appreciative that I have listeners across the WWW. Though I rarely go live, I consider it an alternative to terrestrial radio. Terrestrial radio has its constraints that I don't have. Often times mainstream radio is forced by the powers that be to format music that may be outside their control. I'm not limited to that, though I will admit that I do look at the charts. It doesn't hurt to see what the listeners wish to hear.

Pandora fills a niche, though I wish it wasn't so. I'm sure I'd have more listeners if they weren't around.

 

[Tom Wells]

Look, if it's not amplitude modulated, if it's not broadcasting Fibber McGhee, Jack Benny or The Shadow, if it's not sponsored by Lucky Strike, or if it's not coming out of a box containing at least one tube - it's not radio!

Dad gummit!!!

Besides, this Internet thing is just a fad.

Y'now, I downloaded NCH tone generator and run 5 multiple 10 khz +/- a point or 5..all about -60db,
to let them fade up and down while I listen to sterile mp3s.

It's one more step like radio.

Now I need the random tremelo/fade plugin, the July Electrical Storm (full 10 hr version) plug-in, and the random
upside-down modulation of an adjacent once in a while. That would make Pandora more like radio. Maybe even a simulated dx effect with
dreamy skywave clear-channel 1000 mile wavering? All on slider controls? How many channels of undesireds do I get to mix under?
Do I get to control their simulated carrier offset to effect cool fading?

 

[Prais]

Mr. Wells, HA!. Great post.

 

[TheBigA]

If radio is actually emanating from the airwaves, I can agree to that. I can also agree to the notion of calling a true streaming station Internet radio. Pandora is just a jukebox.

However, we all can name actual FM stations with towers and transmitters that are simply jukeboxes too. Does that mean they can't refer to themselves as radio? Who enforces that decision?

 

[robnokshus06]

Foolish semantic argument.

I say foolish because "Radio" keeps Pandora out of the family at it's own peril. While "Radio" listening is declining or flat at best (depending on which industry sponsored survey you're looking at) Pandora is adding new listeners by the millions every month. Pandora is cool, now, and, though it may very well be a juke box service, it's one-commercial-an-hour-music-genome-derived-jukebox is far more preferrable than its 200-song/20-commercial-minutes-an-hour "Radio" counterpart.

Add in Pandora's demographic and geographic ad targeting ability and it is an increasingly attractive advertising vehicle as well. Why wouldn't "Radio" want to be part of this club? By including Pandora, Slacker and to a lesser extent, Sirius/XM into the radio fold, radio looks modern, innovative, hip, sexy, cutting-edge. No, it isn't grandpa's radio, but nobody wants to advertise to grandpa anymore anyway. Unless you are going to make radio a viable alternative to personal music players and streaming services such as Pandora (and I seriously doubt that anyone posting on this board has the wherewithall to make that happen) then I would suggest embracing the new. Welcome Pandora to the "Radio" family with open arms!

"Pandora? Oh yeah, she's one of us."

 

[TheBigA]

Why wouldn't "Radio" want to be part of this club?

I think the radio industry WOULD. It's a lot of radio traditionalists, and those who have their own self-interest to worry about. Because Pandora is radio on the cheap. No air talent, no localism, no personality, and no regulations. But if that attracts 70 million people (compared to 19 million for similar service on satellite), maybe they have something worth looking into.

As I keep saying, if the public is willing to seek out radio that DOESN'T have air talent and DJs and all the other traditional stuff, maybe traditional radio could learn something from the upstarts.