• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Paragon Research-Adult Hits

O

OldiesCat

Guest
Good stuff, gang:

Wednesday, Sept. 21, 2005

Adult Hits 'Countered' Many Of Radio's Problems

Paragon Media Strategies CEO Mike Henry, whose company is credited with spreading the Adult Hits "Jack"-branded format across the U.S., said today at the NAB Radio Show that Jack FM stations serve as an antidote for some of the top complaints listeners had about radio. "Clutter, a lack of variety, and too much talk were all addressed in one fell swoop," he said during the "Bob, Ted, Jack & Alice," panel this afternoon in Philadelphia. "The packaging of 'Jack' hit that right between the eyes. We put truth serum through the speakers of those who said they had variety. They were poseurs." He noted, however, that the format has to be carefully formatted and must be handled properly. "Operators have to make a commitment to it and have got to be willing to do things differently. The music has a lot to do with it. With 'Jack,' we found that we were missing a segment of the population that has wider ears than anyone gave them credit for." He added that making the format a success also requires stations to change their business operations. "You need a whole new business plan, because it changes how you sell your station," said Henry. "This format is not to be done if you don't know what you're doing. It's not an easy format."
 
STRIKE #1:
> Paragon Media Strategies CEO Mike Henry, whose company is
> credited with spreading the Adult Hits "Jack"-branded format
> across the U.S., said today...

and McDonald's claims beef is good for you, what else is new?

STRIKE #2:

and where's IS the beef in their statement? I want to hear about people throwing away I-pods & Satrads en-mass. So far there's no evidence that shows that people are returning to radio. Existing radio users may be turning to JACK, but only at the expense of other radio stations. And when I offer double patties, they'll come to me. Nothing new here, keep on keepin' on.

I'd wait for the vegetarians to show up before making statements like these.

STRIKE #3:

It was a called third strike. Now go grab yourself a Ballbark Frank...
 
Adult Hits

I'd have expected nothing less from such a predictable negatively-biased viewpoint.

Truth is: radio listeners are filling out diaries in great favor of the
Variety Hits format IN DROVES, in market after market. Those who hate the concept can continue to spew their hatred of the format-- which makes you feel better for about 5 minutes.

Except for the fact that in most markets where it's on, IT IS WORKING and fabulously.

> STRIKE #1:
> > Paragon Media Strategies CEO Mike Henry, whose company is
> > credited with spreading the Adult Hits "Jack"-branded
> format across the U.S., said today...
>
> and McDonald's claims beef is good for you, what else is new?
>
> STRIKE #2:
>
> and where's IS the beef in their statement? I want to hear
> about people throwing away I-pods & Satrads en-mass. So far
> there's no evidence that shows that people are returning to
> radio. Existing radio users may be turning to JACK, but
> only at the expense of other radio stations. And when I
> offer double patties, they'll come to me. Nothing new here,
> keep on keepin' on.
>
> I'd wait for the vegetarians to show up before making
> statements like these.
>
> STRIKE #3:
>
> It was a called third strike. Now go grab yourself a Ballbark Frank...
>
 
Re: Adult Hits

Agreed, as usual, OC.

Funny how people with no horse in the race can stand on the sidelines
and make such swooping statements as if anyone asked or cared. I think
that even if certain people could put their exact music, imaging and voice on their own radio station, 100% what they want, they'd still bitch because
it makes them feel bigger and better about themselves.

95% of listeners to radio have asked for something different and unique
for years and no one listened. Now, something new is out there that could
really change the sound (and mindsets) of this industry and very few people
on this board will embrace VH because they have predicted the future and
think they know what listeners want. Whose has been brainwashed by the copy-cat mentality of radio? The think-out-of-the-box programmers that take a chance with
Jack or the people who make no decisions, who cut down radio constantly, and
who don't bring anything to the table EVER?

And, why the McDonald's analogy? Jack and AA are fine dining compared to the
tired overused "truths" that have given us stations of little substance.

Whether you like JACK itself or not, can't anyone say the direction of slightly
different radio formatting, marketing and thinking is POSITIVE?
 
Adult Hits

The sad truth is that radio people are always the first to stand up on their soap boxes and SCREAM for something unique and different. Then, when that happens but it doesn't fit into their tight little "radio think" box, they get all hot & heavy and very negative about it, calling it a bust and a failure (even though most Arbitron numbers put that big lie to rest).

My betting is most of the venom comes from those who's favorite stations (mostly the Oldies flips) were changed, plus the fact that right now most of the VH stations are jockless, thus they see their opportunities to be on-air shrinking.

And, all of that is very short-sighted.
>
> Whether you like JACK itself or not, can't anyone say the direction of slightly
> different radio formatting, marketing and thinking is POSITIVE?
>
 
Please re-read my post...

...I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a fan of the JACK format, nor am I a fan of oldies format of any sort - I think it's kind of creepy the way people hang onto music from their high school days. (But that's a post for another day).

I'm also not a fan of executives (whether it's Paragon or Infinity) blowin' smoke up my butt trying to convince me that JACK is going to save radio.

All I stated in my original post is that there is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that people are returning to radio because of JACK. Yes, they are getting ratings, but IT IS AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHER STATIONS, not at the expense of other media. In fact, based on their type of spurious thinking, I could easily spin an arguement that more people are leaving radio because of JACK.

JACK is a format change, nothing more, nothing less. Like any format change, it has it's pluses and minuses and it has it's sucesses and failures. But thinking it's some sort of messiah that's going to lead us out of the post-dereg desert is simply dillusional.

Finally, I'm a big fan of radio in all it's forms, interpersonal communications, reading comprehension and turn signals. Which is why it baffles me that anytime I state my position, you attempt to twist it into some kind of JACK/anti-JACK issue.

So clear your head of any bias you may THINK that I have and re-read what I posted.

Oh, and make sure you use your turn signals.
 
Re: Adult Hits

> And, all of that is very short-sighted.

...and how good would your favorite hockey team be if it got rid of their farm team...Hmmm?

I love the music on Jack FM, (and oldies stations, respectfully) but It's tough enough for the rookie to get their start thanks to automation, and equally as tough for a radio personality to go down the ladder, if need be, and polish themselves up.

I don't want to turn on my radio in twenty years and hear some bum off the street yelling "Woo-hoo! I'm on the air!"

Automation has done enough harm to the starter kit of radio talent, we don't need termination of good radio talent today, only to find that tomorrow we can't find it.




<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
> STRIKE #2:
>
> and where's IS the beef in their statement? I want to hear
> about people throwing away I-pods & Satrads en-mass. So far
> there's no evidence that shows that people are returning to
> radio. Existing radio users may be turning to JACK, but
> only at the expense of other radio stations. And when I
> offer double patties, they'll come to me. Nothing new here,
> keep on keepin' on.

And where is the beef in your statement? Radio listenership is not down. It's not illegal to own an Ipod and a radio too. No one is throwing away radios en masse either.
 
Re: Adult Hits

> I love the music on Jack FM, (and oldies stations,
> respectfully) but It's tough enough for the rookie to get
> their start thanks to automation, and equally as tough for a
> radio personality to go down the ladder, if need be, and
> polish themselves up.
>
> I don't want to turn on my radio in twenty years and hear
> some bum off the street yelling "Woo-hoo! I'm on the air!"
>
> Automation has done enough harm to the starter kit of radio
> talent, we don't need termination of good radio talent
> today, only to find that tomorrow we can't find it.
>

Alas, the roots of this go back 20-odd years. As the Walmart-ization of America gained momentum it became harder and harder for small-market radio to make a go of it relying on advertising from a dwindling number of Main St. businesses so automation and/or satellite programming crept in to keep expenses down. I took a cross-country trip in the early 90s, and was dismayed at how many small-ish markets (especially in the plains states) had NO local radio...just automation or satellite fare. And it just snowballed from there. Modern automation systems allow cyber-tracking that (with a jock who "gets it") is indistinguishable from a live shift. Except that they sound professional, not "Woo-hoo! I'm on the air!" like so much small market radio used to sound. I don't know where the next generation of radio talent will come from.
 
Re: Adult Hits

> Alas, the roots of this go back 20-odd years. As the
> Walmart-ization of America gained momentum it became harder
> and harder for small-market radio to make a go of it relying
> on advertising from a dwindling number of Main St.
> businesses so automation and/or satellite programming crept
> in to keep expenses down. I took a cross-country trip in
> the early 90s, and was dismayed at how many small-ish
> markets (especially in the plains states) had NO local
> radio...just automation or satellite fare. And it just
> snowballed from there. Modern automation systems allow
> cyber-tracking that (with a jock who "gets it") is
> indistinguishable from a live shift. Except that they sound
> professional, not "Woo-hoo! I'm on the air!" like so much
> small market radio used to sound. I don't know where the
> next generation of radio talent will come from.
>
But the Prophet system also means that those pros, as good as they may sound, gave themselves away as not being local by pronouncing names of streets wrong, etc, and no current tempeture with the weather.
Here's an article about Clear Channel, a bit old now, but still a good read:

www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,54037,00.html




<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: Adult Hits

> But the Prophet system also means that those pros, as good
> as they may sound, gave themselves away as not being local
> by pronouncing names of streets wrong

NEWSFLASH: Even local, live jocks mispronounce street names...
 
Re: Adult Hits

> > But the Prophet system also means that those pros, as good
>
> > as they may sound, gave themselves away as not being local
>
> > by pronouncing names of streets wrong
>
> NEWSFLASH: Even local, live jocks mispronounce street
> names...
>
Tell that to the person who wrote the article...I trust you read the article?
The last paragraph of the first page is merely my point.

<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Jack is NOT saving radio

This noble quest that seems to be talked about so much, about "radio saving radio" is just that- noble. Radio has nobody but itself to blame for the exodus to alternative entertainment sources, so when a fresh, new format comes on and is successful (perhaps at the expense of other radio stations), it's not, for instance Jack's fault. Individual stations' mission is to get listeners and if it comes from a competitor, more power to them. It's is the radio industry's big-picture task to provide compelling entertainment to slow or stop the overall erosion of listening. You're never going to reverse it.

I don't read any of the studies on Jack/Variety Hits as saying this approach will "save radio"- I don't believe anybody is attempting to say that.

But it is saving some radio stations.
 
Excellent Post!

Ford CEO today said Ford is taking over the world.

> STRIKE #1:
> > Paragon Media Strategies CEO Mike Henry, whose company is
> > credited with spreading the Adult Hits "Jack"-branded
> format
> > across the U.S., said today...
>
> and McDonald's claims beef is good for you, what else is
> new?
>
> STRIKE #2:
>
> and where's IS the beef in their statement? I want to hear
> about people throwing away I-pods & Satrads en-mass. So far
> there's no evidence that shows that people are returning to
> radio. Existing radio users may be turning to JACK, but
> only at the expense of other radio stations. And when I
> offer double patties, they'll come to me. Nothing new here,
> keep on keepin' on.
>
> I'd wait for the vegetarians to show up before making
> statements like these.
>
> STRIKE #3:
>
> It was a called third strike. Now go grab yourself a
> Ballbark Frank...
>
 
Re: Adult Hits

Yes, we're negative if we don't agree with spinmasters. We're racist if a white man doesn't agree with Farrakhan, we're racist if a black man doesn't agree with Pat Robertson, blah blah blah, you and David are in the same boat. You're all numbers perceived to fit your reality and agenda.

The "beef" is this. You're overhyping the format. Jammin' Oldies exploded all over the place and the plug was pulled for many reasons in many different markets. Jack is imploding in important markets or stagnant, in some markets it's doing well (and in time I believe will be nothing more than a "remember that station?") I don't remember spinmansters coming out of the woodwork to hump Jammin' Oldies' leg like this when they came out the box with blazing numbers IN MOST MARKETS, CRUCIAL MARKETS because they didn't have to. When Jammin' Oldies became stale with a 180 song playlist and wasn't allowed to tweak or grow, it died. In Chicago, Kiss is still nowhere near the profit or billing it had done with J.O. That's not a perceived reality, it is reality.

You're a lackey for this format which leads me to believe you're an implant for the Company. If not, I hope they pay you to be this loyal.

While I'll concede that if they ever get Jack to a point where there's some cohesion to it's programming, it may survive in some markets. As it stands now? I don't believe it will last in it's present state any longer than the "dreaded" 80s or "Jammin' Oldies" formats did. It's a white based format so they'll hang onto it a bit longer than they did with Jammin' Oldies, as long as it doesn't affect any of their other stations in their clusters.

If that is the case then this is a band-aid over the bigger problem and management failed at seeing it. Prolonging the agony is not success.

> I'd have expected nothing less from such a predictable
> negatively-biased viewpoint.
>
> Truth is: radio listeners are filling out diaries in great
> favor of the
> Variety Hits format IN DROVES, in market after market.
> Those who hate the concept can continue to spew their hatred
> of the format-- which makes you feel better for about 5
> minutes.
>
> Except for the fact that in most markets where it's on, IT
> IS WORKING and fabulously.
>
> > STRIKE #1:
> > > Paragon Media Strategies CEO Mike Henry, whose company
> is
> > > credited with spreading the Adult Hits "Jack"-branded
> > format across the U.S., said today...
> >
> > and McDonald's claims beef is good for you, what else is
> new?
> >
> > STRIKE #2:
> >
> > and where's IS the beef in their statement? I want to
> hear
> > about people throwing away I-pods & Satrads en-mass. So
> far
> > there's no evidence that shows that people are returning
> to
> > radio. Existing radio users may be turning to JACK, but
> > only at the expense of other radio stations. And when I
> > offer double patties, they'll come to me. Nothing new
> here,
> > keep on keepin' on.
> >
> > I'd wait for the vegetarians to show up before making
> > statements like these.
> >
> > STRIKE #3:
> >
> > It was a called third strike. Now go grab yourself a
> Ballbark Frank...
> >
>
 
Re: Jack is NOT saving radio

Good post. I'll agree. How long remains to be seen.

> This noble quest that seems to be talked about so much,
> about "radio saving radio" is just that- noble. Radio has
> nobody but itself to blame for the exodus to alternative
> entertainment sources, so when a fresh, new format comes on
> and is successful (perhaps at the expense of other radio
> stations), it's not, for instance Jack's fault. Individual
> stations' mission is to get listeners and if it comes from a
> competitor, more power to them. It's is the radio
> industry's big-picture task to provide compelling
> entertainment to slow or stop the overall erosion of
> listening. You're never going to reverse it.
>
> I don't read any of the studies on Jack/Variety Hits as
> saying this approach will "save radio"- I don't believe
> anybody is attempting to say that.
>
> But it is saving some radio stations.
>
 
Re: Adult Hits

New? Jack? A new idea? Wow, I guess playing all the songs radio used to play and songs many radio stations still play is new idea?

I must've missed something along the way.

Lastly, I don't think one needs to be "positive" when they see something being done badly or more importantly under false pretenses.

We have an issue where someone high up believes this is a good move. We have others who believe to not be the "greatest new thing since sliced bread".

As Seven stated, it's a format change, nothing more, nothing less. It's not ground-breaking, in fact, it's not as "different" as Jammin' Oldies was.
I dont' recall the whiners stating "you're just being negative" when they pounced all over Dance, 80s or Jammin' Oldies. All had inherent problems due to people up above not liking the format and not wanting to do it or do it properly. Others had big issues internally and wanted their "brand name" in the market, at any price.

80s in Chicago worked well, it had problems from above. Dance worked well, it had it problems from above. Jammin' Oldies worked very well and died because of problems from above.

I'm more of a Jammin' Oldies fan than anything else. I'm also a big electronica fan which for a man my age is an abberation I'm sure. But what worked in Chicago worked. What failed failed for reasons that really had nothing to do with the formats if they were allowed to grow or leave the group that provided such bad management from above.

What I find most amusing about the entire Jammin' Oldies thing is that Lite FM in Chicago has been doing [basically] a J.O. type format on the weekends and more and more of those title are being put in every day. It's amazing, you really should see their logs. Check Mediabase, it's really incredible. A full 180 degree turn for that station. We'll see what numbers that brings.


> Agreed, as usual, OC.
>
> Funny how people with no horse in the race can stand on the
> sidelines
> and make such swooping statements as if anyone asked or
> cared. I think
> that even if certain people could put their exact music,
> imaging and voice on their own radio station, 100% what they
> want, they'd still bitch because
> it makes them feel bigger and better about themselves.
>
> 95% of listeners to radio have asked for something different
> and unique
> for years and no one listened. Now, something new is out
> there that could
> really change the sound (and mindsets) of this industry and
> very few people
> on this board will embrace VH because they have predicted
> the future and
> think they know what listeners want. Whose has been
> brainwashed by the copy-cat mentality of radio? The
> think-out-of-the-box programmers that take a chance with
> Jack or the people who make no decisions, who cut down radio
> constantly, and
> who don't bring anything to the table EVER?
>
> And, why the McDonald's analogy? Jack and AA are fine dining
> compared to the
> tired overused "truths" that have given us stations of
> little substance.
>
> Whether you like JACK itself or not, can't anyone say the
> direction of slightly
> different radio formatting, marketing and thinking is
> POSITIVE?
>
 
Re: Please re-read my post...

I'll believe the constant statements about "everyone leaving radio" and "no one listens to radio anymore" when I see major CHR and Alternatie stations abandoning the format because they can't crack a one share. <P ID="signature">______________
Greetings from Ohio-where the governor wants everyone to know he's sorry.</P>
 
That's exactly the point...

> I don't read any of the studies on Jack/Variety Hits as
> saying this approach will "save radio"- I don't believe
> anybody is attempting to say that.

My "beef" isn't with you - unless you're Mike Henry - then we have alot to talk about. Re-read this release... "Adult Hits 'Countered' Many Of Radio's Problems", "an antidote for some of the top complaints listeners had about radio" and "we were missing a segment of the population".

He didn't say anything about a "station". He distinctly used the term "radio" - either in name or by generalization.

I could have lived with "We're kicking ass in LA because there was no AAA station, no Classic Hits station, a weak Hot A/C and the Arrow format was tired. It was a no brainer". But this statement is not an isolated incident, it sounds like the same B.S. spewing forth from every executive's mouth... executives who have been empowered with the task of running radio as we know it today and executives who sign our paychecks. Simply put, most are clueless.

You're posting of the original release, with the top-line of "Good stuff, gang:" led me to believe your tacit approval of such drivel. If that's not the case, I sincerely appoligize.


> But it is saving some radio stations.

Agreed.
 
the point

"good stuff" was meant to say "good information"- has nothing to do with whether anybody should agree or disagree. Information about the Variety Hits format is valuable and we should all be informed.

I will say this, however- Jack/V.H. format is definitely responding (at least the way listeners are perceiving it, which is the only measurement that counts) to the growing dissastisfaction with 250 song playlists on library-based radio stations. Cure for radio, no- a proper and so far VERY POPULAR and well- received response to the problem of same old/same old, yes, definitely. Call it corporate speak or drivel all you want-- all they're doing is reporting how listeners are perceiving and liking about Jack. Don't kill the messenger.

(and, no, I'm not Mike Henry and he did not approve of this message <LOL>)
>
> You're posting of the original release, with the top-line of
> "Good stuff, gang:" led me to believe your tacit approval of
> such drivel. If that's not the case, I sincerely appoligize.
>
>
> > But it is saving some radio stations.
>
> Agreed.
>
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom