Part 1 Fall Ratings Are Out

[toddjammin]

Per All Access, The latest ratings are out

DVE still remains in first place which is no surprise. The thing that does surprise me is that K ROCK is now in 18th place out of 20. They are even advertising Opie and Anthony more on TV. This is K ROCK's lowest rating ever.

Anyway KDKA still edged out WDSY for 2nd place. WPGB moves up to 4th place as Bob and Wamo are tied for 5th place. Thoughts on the latest books?

 

[Radio_Realist]

Thoughts on the latest books?

Since you asked, three thoughts on K-Rock's continued fall.

1. As much as I am an advocate of promotion and advertising, no amount will save a fundamentally bad product.

2. As important as a morning show is, no matter how good it is, a morning show by itself won't save a station that is truly bad. That's especially true for a canned morning show.

3. Expecting the kind of people who would enjoy Opie and Anthony to have enough memory to remember to tune them in the next morning after you've run a TV commercial that no one watched because they were going to the bathroom is expecting something that experience should have shown you ain't gonna happen. If those TV spots were going to work, they'd have done so by now.

[EDIT]

[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[Pratte4Life]

I think the rise of 104.7 had to do with the elections. If memory served- they also had a ratings peak around the 2004 Presidential election- then went down in the odd numbered year.

I am seemingly the only guy in the world who thinks K-Rock has potential. I will tell you that the mid-afternoon talk show they put in is a total failure. I listened to it once- and that was all it took for me to tune out during that time.

O and A have worked before and I think could be a draw. I understand the point you're trying to make- Realist- but they say the same thing about Howard Stern's audience.

One of the things about WDVE is I am sick of it. I know all the songs on the playlist and I think they take their audience for granted.

I like the songs on the K-Rock playlist. I've been through this.

Unfortunately, they keep putting on talk shows I would never listen to- both in mid-day drive and late night with Loveline. I can't get any consistency from the station.

I think if they just went with the songs and O and A- they'd be fine and truly competitive in the market. Unfortunately- I never know when I'm going to hear music and when I'm going to hear a talk show I can't stand.

One final note- Fox Sports Radio. They are back in the dumps. The first word is in on firing Savran for Benz and Bendel and it's not positive.

 

[Prattoholic]

The Pimp-hand is strong with WORD-FM! showing Krock "who's thier daddy!!"

 

[garnet]

that would have been hysterical, had you spelled "their" correctly...but good try...it was funny...

 

[Prattoholic]

thank you for the correction....

could you also make sure that 'pimp-hand' needs a hyphen...
and look up the definition of WRKZ and see if it says '41,000 watts of pure suck'....thank you

 

[kenhawk1160]

One of the things about WDVE is I am sick of it. I know all the songs on the playlist and I think they take their audience for granted.

I'm not sure I agree with that...though DVE is a heritage rock station, it's also very personality-driven, which is unheard of these days in a business where radio stations are overconsulted, overmarketed, and overresearched. It's actually remained fairly consistent throughout the years, aside from the occasional shifts musically from Classic Rock to New Rock. They're very promotion-intensive, and they know how to cater to the average Pittsburgher by their promotions, comedy bits, and listener interaction. Could it be better? Always.

DVE still pushes the envelope in many ways, but not so much as to alienate their listeners.

 

[kenhawk1160]

I am seemingly the only guy in the world who thinks K-Rock has potential. I will tell you that the mid-afternoon talk show they put in is a total failure. I listened to it once- and that was all it took for me to tune out during that time.

O and A have worked before and I think could be a draw. Unfortunately, they keep putting on talk shows I would never listen to- both in mid-day drive and late night with Loveline. I can't get any consistency from the station.

I think if they just went with the songs and O and A- they'd be fine and truly competitive in the market. Unfortunately- I never know when I'm going to hear music and when I'm going to hear a talk show I can't stand.

Fortunately, CBS isn't wringing their hands over K-Rock's lack of success. With the existing stations they already have in their portfolio which are profitable, they're not treating K-Rock as a priority right now, but if they're starting to incorporate more talk into the format, maybe they're going to try their hand at personality talk. I can't see that working, though, since Pittsburgh is oversaturated as it is with the existing talk stations.

I do agree with you Pratte4Life...O and A have worked before and they could be a draw if the product that they were on was a little bit better. Truth be told, I think they're trying to imitate WDVE, but they're trying to do it cheaper...and that simply can't be done. As the old addage goes...you get what you pay for.

 

[youngabe89]

What I don't understand is the fact that there have been stations in the past that are pulled, flipped, etc in about 6 months. K-ROCK has sucked hardcore for quite sometime and that isn't just my opinion, the ratings say it all. Why are they still hanging on?

 

[Radio_Realist]

It's actually remained fairly consistent throughout the years, aside from the occasional shifts musically from Classic Rock to New Rock.

Even their inclusion of newer songs is still consistent with their overall sound. When 'DVE puts a newly recorded song into their rotation, it's one that has a good sonic fit with the older songs that they play. They include the new songs that still have something of a "classic" sound, and exclude the new songs that don't.

 

[kenhawk1160]

It's actually remained fairly consistent throughout the years, aside from the occasional shifts musically from Classic Rock to New Rock.

Even their inclusion of newer songs is still consistent with their overall sound. When 'DVE puts a newly recorded song into their rotation, it's one that has a good sonic fit with the older songs that they play. They include the new songs that still have something of a "classic" sound, and exclude the new songs that don't.

Agreed, Realist. They don't really brand themselves as a specific rock station, but simply as a rock station. It's a formula that's served them well over the years.

 

[Pratte4Life]

I can't really argue with your points, Ken, except for this-

When I first discovered WDVE in 1989 I could not stop listening to it. I was one of those guys who bought the yearly Paulsen and Krenn album and could run back the routines word for word. I would not change my dial and listened in the wee hours of the day.

Not only that- I could walk through Market Square and see people reciting the routines to their friends as they walked down the street.

Maybe I'm getting old- but I don't think so. It's 17 years later and THEY ARE STILL PLAYING THE CLARKS. JIM KRENN STILL HAS THE OLD CHARACTERS TELLING THE SAME JOKES. And Randy does not have the same mix that Krenn and Paulsen did.

Here's something else. I am looking at yes.com. The last four songs WDVE has played- and NONE of them were released before 1980.

Furthermore- I just find a lot of the songs to be dull. I'm looking at their last five songs- and the only one that would be described by me as a hard, fast song would be Jimi Hendrix "Fire"- and that's hardly contemporary.

Just go back to my thread about the Motley Crue-Aerosmith concert- where K-Rock came out of the show taking calls- playing music by the bands- and WDVE just ignored it.

I see WDVE as successful the same way "The Simpsons" are successful. They simply aren't that fresh and are living off their name.

True, a sizeable amount of the audience will just keep their dial set at 102.5 out of habit- just like a sizeable amount of Americans will sit down and watch the same old same old on FOX at 8 pm on Sundays. Enough so to keep WDVE #1 or The Simpsons to make a feature film.

But it used to be every car in town had a WDVE sticker and they don't anymore. It used to be if I missed the bit Jimmy Krenn told in the morning- I could hear it from my buddies at work.

I can't do that anymore- just like I don't see people wearing Bart Simpson T-shirts anymore.

 

[djkst35]

K-Rock continues to flop. Any chances of them flipping to the new Rhythmic Hot AC format soon?

Glad to see 96.1 Kiss doing so well.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Let me clarify an error.

That should have been ALL of the four songs were released before 1980- not NONE of the four songs.

 

[Boss Radio]

Ratings show DVE is No. 1 overall, and the station is billing great.

Reality like that trumps personal anecdotal evidence ("It used to be if I missed the bit Jimmy Krenn told in the morning- I could hear it from my buddies at work.") every time.

WHY would they change things when they're No. 1 and selling everything they can sell?

 

[Radio_Realist]

WHY would they change things when they're No. 1 and selling everything they can sell?

Since you asked, there are several reasons. Here's two.

1. They can't expect the rest of the stations in town to continue to keep shooting themselves in the foot. 'DVE is #1 in part because they are good, but also in part because it's easy to be #1 when no other station in the entire market deserves to be higher than #5. But sooner or later, someone at CBS or Steel City will either wake up or sell a station to someone who actually wants to make a race of it, and when that happens, 'DVE will be toast unless they stay strong. They can't coast forever.

2. Read the book "Marketing Warfare", by Trout and Reis. It's one of the best books around about the techniques that the top performer in any market needs to use to stay on top. And one of the key principles is to keep improving even if you don't think you need to in order to keep your competition off-balance. That's true for any enterprise in any industry in which success must come at the expense of a competitor.

 

[Boss Radio]

The perceived need for WDVE's "improvement" is subjective. In this case, it comes from one poster who seems to be Pittsburgh's lone Imus listener and has a beef with WDVE because it didn't go all AC/DC on the night he was driving to a concert. His personal quirks hardly represent any sort of trend.

Changing a successful product because it *might* face stronger competition in two years isn't a smart strategy.

 

[kenhawk1160]

I can't really argue with your points, Ken, except for this-

When I first discovered WDVE in 1989 I could not stop listening to it. I was one of those guys who bought the yearly Paulsen and Krenn album and could run back the routines word for word. I would not change my dial and listened in the wee hours of the day.

Not only that- I could walk through Market Square and see people reciting the routines to their friends as they walked down the street.

Maybe I'm getting old- but I don't think so. It's 17 years later and THEY ARE STILL PLAYING THE CLARKS. JIM KRENN STILL HAS THE OLD CHARACTERS TELLING THE SAME JOKES. And Randy does not have the same mix that Krenn and Paulsen did.

Here's something else. I am looking at yes.com. The last four songs WDVE has played- and NONE of them were released before 1980.

Furthermore- I just find a lot of the songs to be dull. I'm looking at their last five songs- and the only one that would be described by me as a hard, fast song would be Jimi Hendrix "Fire"- and that's hardly contemporary.

Just go back to my thread about the Motley Crue-Aerosmith concert- where K-Rock came out of the show taking calls- playing music by the bands- and WDVE just ignored it.

I see WDVE as successful the same way "The Simpsons" are successful. They simply aren't that fresh and are living off their name.

True, a sizeable amount of the audience will just keep their dial set at 102.5 out of habit- just like a sizeable amount of Americans will sit down and watch the same old same old on FOX at 8 pm on Sundays. Enough so to keep WDVE #1 or The Simpsons to make a feature film.

But it used to be every car in town had a WDVE sticker and they don't anymore. It used to be if I missed the bit Jimmy Krenn told in the morning- I could hear it from my buddies at work.

I can't do that anymore- just like I don't see people wearing Bart Simpson T-shirts anymore.

I'll go over this one point by point:

Every car in town had a WDVE bumper sticker? I don't think ANY car in town puts bumper stickers on their vehicle these days...or even window clings, for that matter. This is why I discourage stations from spending money on these promotional items. I also believe that with the advent of MP3 technology, your average listeners aren't worshipping their favorite radio stations as they once have.

Keeping tuned to 102.5 "out of habit": The fact that they're still entertaining is enough...few other stations are capable of even offering entertainment. They may be able to inform or influence, but not many of them have the ability to entertain outside of music offerings. Fortunately for WDVE, the Pittsburgh radio market is more conservative than others, and that has worked to their advantage. They do change and evolve over time, but the overall essence of their morning show does remain the same.

As for playing The Clarks still after 17 years, well, they are a good group, and they have a very strong following, as do a lot of regional bands who do have talent, but either not enough to land a real record deal, or would simply be happier playing to the Pittsburgh crowd. DVE does play a lot of music from homegrown talent, and the Clarks just happen to be one of them...and they're one of the few that actually DO have talent. In fact, DVE may be the ONLY station in town willing to take a chance on local music.

And for seeing people walking down the street and reciting the routines, keep in mind that times have changed. There's much more choices out there today than ever before. Don't forget that the business model of just about every industry has changed as well. Gone are the days of the 9-5 Monday through Friday workweek. You still work 40 hours, but those hours are more likely now than ever to be flexible, as well as the days.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Changing a successful product because it *might* face stronger competition in two years isn't a smart strategy.

If that was the only reason, then I might agree. But that is one reason out of several, of which I only listed two. You really like to take small snippets of posts out of context, don't you?

In almost any field of endeavour, but especially in show business, if you aren't moving forward and growing, then you're dying. There's no such thing as making it to where you can simply rest on your laurels. If 'DVE doesn't continue to grow and make minor changes and improvements, then they'll start getting really stale, really fast. They'll turn into KDKA.

 

[Boss Radio]

Because KDKA's ratings and revenue declined in the blink of an eye over 30 years.

There is one person who suggested he doesn't like WDVE as much as he once did. The ratings show that is a minority viewpoint. Stations don't overhaul successful programming on the advice of one message board poster whose tastes don't generally reflect any sort of mainstream trends.