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Part 15 FM and these XM modulators and Ramsey's , EDM's Etc.

O

oldies1077

Hi Guys,

I was running a EDM 100mw into a comet 5/8 wave. Mr John E. Rahtes District Director for the philadelphia Field Office showed up here while i was out and tried to intimidate my landlady into letting him into my apartment. Well i emailed him and spoke on the phone he said i needed a license and said to expect a warning and possibly fines and forfeiture of my ham license. well this confirms it folks. EDM's, Ramsey's are not part 15 compliant. I asked him about Part 15 AM as the rules are more strait foward. he said you won't get much legal range there. this guy sounds very unfriendly and like he does not wan't anyone on the air legal or otherwise w/o a license. looks like i have to wait 10 days and see if a registered letter arrives. these are the same field personell that let wsjl in villa's nj stay on the air while getting 3 - 10 miles range. and he is telling me that very thing is not legal.

In short if you live in NJ, you're done. they don't want you on here on AM or FM. and EDM and Ramsey transmitters are not legal. I found out the hard way. if in the NJ area you can thank 2 people from a certain Sussex County NJ clear channel owned station who are driving around and reporting on stations all over nj and their FCC muscle. it does not matter if you are trying to be legal or not. if you are a fraction over these gentelmen will screw you hard. I was not even in the philly district, i'm in NY district. i looked it up. Even if you are trying to be legal they will not help you correct your operation to be legal, they will just screw you.

Heed these words.

Thank You,<P ID="signature">______________
Oldies 1610 AM Stereo

"Proud User of Chris Cuff's Alfredo Lite 100mw"

http://www.part15.us
Largest Part 15 Website in the World</P>
 
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was running a EDM 100mw into a comet 5/8 wave. Mr John E.
> Rahtes District Director for the philadelphia Field Office
> showed up here while i was out and tried to intimidate my
> landlady into letting him into my apartment. Well i emailed
> him and spoke on the phone he said i needed a license and
> said to expect a warning and possibly fines and forfeiture
> of my ham license. well this confirms it folks. EDM's,
> Ramsey's are not part 15 compliant. I asked him about Part
> 15 AM as the rules are more strait foward. he said you won't
> get much legal range there. this guy sounds very unfriendly
> and like he does not wan't anyone on the air legal or
> otherwise w/o a license. looks like i have to wait 10 days
> and see if a registered letter arrives. these are the same
> field personell that let wsjl in villa's nj stay on the air
> while getting 3 - 10 miles range. and he is telling me that
> very thing is not legal.
>
> In short if you live in NJ, you're done. they don't want you
> on here on AM or FM. and EDM and Ramsey transmitters are not
> legal. I found out the hard way. if in the NJ area you can
> thank 2 people from a certain Sussex County NJ clear channel
> owned station who are driving around and reporting on
> stations all over nj and their FCC muscle. it does not
> matter if you are trying to be legal or not. if you are a
> fraction over these gentelmen will screw you hard. I was not
> even in the philly district, i'm in NY district. i looked it
> up. Even if you are trying to be legal they will not help
> you correct your operation to be legal, they will just screw
> you.
>
> Heed these words.
>
> Thank You,
>


I'm sorry to hear that you've been visited, seems that NJ is on the same ticket with Florida in regards to this... I believe that if you stick it out and be firm on your Constitutional right to own a Part15 device and using it according to the Rules that they don't have a leg to stand on. But the fact that the unit is 100mw has nothing to do with it unless it's over the 250uv/3m rule... slightly higher is not going to get you busted, I'm sure these hooligans are getting anyone including anyone with a legal part15 device running legally off the air... same as what is happening in South Florida... Trust me I lived in West Palm Beach, Florida and my parents/parent in laws still live there and it's unbelievable the things that are going on there! I will not live in Florida because of these insane laws!

Not sure what your financial situation is now but my advice to you if you enjoy this hobby is to move and go to a part15 friendly state.

Good luck,

Radiopilot
 
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was running a EDM 100mw into a comet 5/8 wave. Mr John E.
> Rahtes District Director for the philadelphia Field Office
> showed up here while i was out and tried to intimidate my
> landlady into letting him into my apartment. Well i emailed
> him and spoke on the phone he said i needed a license and
> said to expect a warning and possibly fines and forfeiture
> of my ham license. well this confirms it folks. EDM's,
> Ramsey's are not part 15 compliant. I asked him about Part
> 15 AM as the rules are more strait foward. he said you won't
> get much legal range there. this guy sounds very unfriendly
> and like he does not wan't anyone on the air legal or
> otherwise w/o a license. looks like i have to wait 10 days
> and see if a registered letter arrives. these are the same
> field personell that let wsjl in villa's nj stay on the air
> while getting 3 - 10 miles range. and he is telling me that
> very thing is not legal.
>
> In short if you live in NJ, you're done. they don't want you
> on here on AM or FM. and EDM and Ramsey transmitters are not
> legal. I found out the hard way. if in the NJ area you can
> thank 2 people from a certain Sussex County NJ clear channel
> owned station who are driving around and reporting on
> stations all over nj and their FCC muscle. it does not
> matter if you are trying to be legal or not. if you are a
> fraction over these gentelmen will screw you hard. I was not
> even in the philly district, i'm in NY district. i looked it
> up. Even if you are trying to be legal they will not help
> you correct your operation to be legal, they will just screw
> you.
>
> Heed these words.
>
> Thank You,
>

Sorry to hear of your situation.

If I recall there have been posts here about the legal limits for FM which stated that 11 nanowatts into a center fed dipole produces the legal limit for part15 FM field strength.

Assuming this is correct, 100 milliwatts is 9 million times over 11 nanowatts. Also a 5/8 wave antenna has gain over a dipole which further increases the field strength.

Hams have added exposure because they are required as a condition of their license to admit FCC inspectors to their stations without a warrant.

Also based on what I have read, stop transmitting and respond to any letter you get. I wish you well with this.

Neil
 
> Sorry to hear of your situation.

Same here.

> If I recall there have been posts here about the legal
> limits for FM which stated that 11 nanowatts into a center
> fed dipole produces the legal limit for part15 FM field
> strength.

Here is an applicable reference to this...

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet63/oet63rev.pdf

The simple form of the equation on page 29 of the above PDF file is P = 0.3E^2. But that calculates the power needed by an "isotropic" radiator, which is only a theoretical antenna used as a reference for the gain of other antennas. A self-resonant 1/2-wave dipole has 1.64X more peak gain than an isotropic radiator. So the calculation needs to allow for that if you want to know what power a 1/2-wave dipole needs, which is done by dividing the answer you get by 1.64.

Doing the math...

P = 0.3(0.00025)^2 = 0.00000001875 watts, or 18.75 nW for an isotropic radiator, and

P = 18.75/1.64 = ~11.43 nW for a 1/2-wave dipole

So clearly, a 25 to 100 milliwatt "Part 15" FM tx cannot apply anything near to that rated power to an antenna, unless the antenna actually radiates almost none of it.

//
 
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was running a EDM 100mw into a comet 5/8 wave. Mr John E.
> Rahtes District Director for the philadelphia Field Office
> showed up here while i was out and tried to intimidate my
> landlady into letting him into my apartment. Well i emailed
> him and spoke on the phone he said i needed a license and
> said to expect a warning and possibly fines and forfeiture
> of my ham license. well this confirms it folks. EDM's,
> Ramsey's are not part 15 compliant. I asked him about Part
> 15 AM as the rules are more strait foward. he said you won't
> get much legal range there. this guy sounds very unfriendly
> and like he does not wan't anyone on the air legal or
> otherwise w/o a license. looks like i have to wait 10 days
> and see if a registered letter arrives. these are the same
> field personell that let wsjl in villa's nj stay on the air
> while getting 3 - 10 miles range. and he is telling me that
> very thing is not legal.
>
> In short if you live in NJ, you're done. they don't want you
> on here on AM or FM. and EDM and Ramsey transmitters are not
> legal. I found out the hard way. if in the NJ area you can
> thank 2 people from a certain Sussex County NJ clear channel
> owned station who are driving around and reporting on
> stations all over nj and their FCC muscle. it does not
> matter if you are trying to be legal or not. if you are a
> fraction over these gentelmen will screw you hard. I was not
> even in the philly district, i'm in NY district. i looked it
> up. Even if you are trying to be legal they will not help
> you correct your operation to be legal, they will just screw
> you.
>
> Heed these words.
>
> Thank You,
>

I'm assuming that you're still broadcasting in AM stereo. Did the agent say anything about the legality of your part-15 broadcasting on AM?

With so much money at stake, it's not hard to see why Clear Channel and the others play vigilantes when it comes to unlicensed broadcasters.

I was just looking at the results for Auction 62. The highest bid was for a CP in Satellite Beach, FL. The FCC set the starting bid at 200K. By the time the auction was finished the final bid was over 5 million.

This is obscene!

db
 
First thing.. what 2 Guys? Not Me.. I dont work for Clear Channel.

Im Running a Chris Cuff Alfredo lite 10 Mw Part 15 transmitter with an antenna
Under 10 feet in length.Not quite 100Mw..
I know the Rangmaster claims it is Type Accepted as Part 15. I dont know Of anyone running the Rangemaster who got a visit getting an N.A.L.
Is the Ramsey or the other(EDM) Unit Type accepted or certified by the FCC?
Or does Ramsey say its Part15?
I hear all about guys claiming that they get Between 1/2-3 miles coverage
thats what gets them in trouble..at those distances you can Bet at the source
your Putting out more than the legal 250uv/3m rule.
I live on just over 2 acres and my Part15 barely Covers my Property. I use it with a walkman while out on the tractor cutting the lawn listening to My Country stuff in the house. Maybe thats why I wont get a visit.
If Im lucky depending On how wet the yard gets I get between 275-300 feet of Good coverage. I believe that falls within the 250uv/3m rule ,but I could be wrong.
Lets just get one fact straight here. I only report the guys that are Running Power you know the Type.. the guys with 10-15 Mile Coverage. You know they are Not part15.. and Only If its really bothering a licensed station.
or even if its a licensed station Like 89.3 a Few years back.. Yep Licensed
For 8 watts Not 9watts Not 10 watts.. they were under an STL for 8 watts at the top of the tower. The antenna was and still is at the wrong height,and they were in fact Running 30 watts.. Gee wonder why they had great coverage. Better than my LPFM at 100 watts.
If your truly running under 100mw with the Proper antenna system in the AM Band I have No issue with that.
FM I dont think 100Mw is legal or considered part15. because you will get out better than the 250uv/3m rule.

Neal

> > Hi Guys,
if in the NJ area you can
>
> > thank 2 people from a certain Sussex County NJ clear
> channel
> > owned station who are driving around and reporting on
> > stations all over nj and their FCC muscle. it does not
> > matter if you are trying to be legal or not. if you are a
> > fraction over these gentelmen will screw you hard. > >
 
3000 times the legal limit?

Hello all,

I used the equation in the above post to calculate the field strength of a 100 mW. transmitter operating into a 5/8 antenna over a ground plane.

A properly tuned 5/8 wave over a ground plane has a typical gain of 3.2 dBi which gives an effective radiated power P of 2.09 x power in. Thus P = 209 mW. (ERP).

Solving the equation P = .3(E^2) gives E = SQRT( P/.3).

E = SQRT( .209/.3) = .835 volts/meter at 3 meters.

Dividing this by the 250 uV/m at 3 meter limit gives 3338.

Therefore, a 100 mW. transmitter into a 5/8 wave antenna can produce a voltage field strength 3338 times the legal limit.

This illustrates that the 250 uV/m limit is incredibly small and it doesn't take much power or a good antenna to vastly exceed this limit.

Lacking equipment to measure the field strength or nanowatts, what are we to do? Perhaps trim the antenna so that the range is less than 200 feet as heard on a good car radio? This does not guarantee that it is legal, but it does bring the signal in line with the FCC guidlines (NOT RULES!) of 200 foot range for FM. I haven't run the numbers on this approach, but it certainly is not 3000 times the limit.

I have read about adjustable power transmitters. Keep in mind that even if you cut the power to 1 milliwatt, you can still be over the limit by 334 times in this illustration (1/100th the power is 1/10th the voltage).

If you think you are over the limit, which is easily done, maybe you shouldn't transmit.

Food for thought.

Neil
 
Re: 3000 times the legal limit?

> Therefore, a 100 mW. transmitter into a 5/8 wave antenna can
> produce a voltage field strength 3338 times the legal limit.
____________

Good analysis. And to add to it...

According to the FCC F(50,50) FM propagation curves for 0.209 W ERP from a transmit antenna height of 30 meters, average field intensity will be above 250 uV/m in a zone of 1-1/2 mile radius around the tx site.

Obviously if field strength is that strong that far away, it is WAY above 250 uV/m when/if measured only 3 meters from the tx antenna. So even if nobody can get close enough to the antenna to measure it, the >250 uV/m fields further away are an accurate indicator that the system is not "Part 15."

Hopefully this will give some useful perspective on this subject.

//
 
Sorry to hear about your problems with "Uncle." Sadly, the FCC is in bed with the broadcasting industry to crush unlicensed radio. While I understand the need to snuff out illegal stations that are running high power (like the station on 95.1 in the NYC area broadcasting to the Haitian community) and some broadcasting in Spanish around Elizabth, N.J.) I think beating up on a guy running 100 milliwatts is a bit severe. The bottom line is, the FCC wants broadcasting stations to be licensed and they have thrown every roadblock in the way of any meaningful unlicensed operation. The 200 foot limit they give you for Part 15 makes any effort hardly worth it, unless you like being the only listener to your own station...and thats the plan.
I own a tiny transmitter that is supposed to be plugged into your car cigaette lighter. I run it on a wallwart power supply in the house to listen to satellite music on any radio in my house or yard. It is certified part 15 compliant and transmits a pretty good sounding stereo signal, which I even use audio processing on. The only fun is hearing an FM stereo station sounding good on your property and knowing it's your "station." Outside of that, it's pretty shallow. With some luck, your neighbors might listen..LOL.
Good luck in your dealings with the Feds.
 
> First thing.. what 2 Guys? Not Me.. I dont work for Clear
> Channel.
>
> Im Running a Chris Cuff Alfredo lite 10 Mw Part 15
> transmitter with an antenna
> Under 10 feet in length.Not quite 100Mw..
> I know the Rangmaster claims it is Type Accepted as Part
> 15. I dont know Of anyone running the Rangemaster who got a
> visit getting an N.A.L.
> Is the Ramsey or the other(EDM) Unit Type accepted or
> certified by the FCC?
> Or does Ramsey say its Part15?
> I hear all about guys claiming that they get Between 1/2-3
> miles coverage
> thats what gets them in trouble..at those distances you
> can Bet at the source
> your Putting out more than the legal 250uv/3m rule.
> I live on just over 2 acres and my Part15 barely Covers my
> Property. I use it with a walkman while out on the tractor
> cutting the lawn listening to My Country stuff in the house.
> Maybe thats why I wont get a visit.
> If Im lucky depending On how wet the yard gets I get
> between 275-300 feet of Good coverage. I believe that falls
> within the 250uv/3m rule ,but I could be wrong.
> Lets just get one fact straight here. I only report the guys
> that are Running Power you know the Type.. the guys with
> 10-15 Mile Coverage. You know they are Not part15.. and
> Only If its really bothering a licensed station.
> or even if its a licensed station Like 89.3 a Few years
> back.. Yep Licensed
> For 8 watts Not 9watts Not 10 watts.. they were under an
> STL for 8 watts at the top of the tower. The antenna was and
> still is at the wrong height,and they were in fact Running
> 30 watts.. Gee wonder why they had great coverage. Better
> than my LPFM at 100 watts.
> If your truly running under 100mw with the Proper antenna
> system in the AM Band I have No issue with that.
> FM I dont think 100Mw is legal or considered part15. because
> you will get out better than the 250uv/3m rule.
>
> Neal
>
> > > Hi Guys,
> if in the NJ area you can
> >
> > > thank 2 people from a certain Sussex County NJ clear
> > channel
> > > owned station who are driving around and reporting on
> > > stations all over nj and their FCC muscle. it does not
> > > matter if you are trying to be legal or not. if you are
> a
> > > fraction over these gentelmen will screw you hard. > >
>

Groucho,

Not sure if you're directing your reply to me or OldiesStereo... anyway, you mention that you get 250 feet approx. with your part15 FM transmitter, not sure of what height you have it, but Rfry had posted some info as to what distances you should get with just the legal amount of power and it's far more than what you get. I have attached his quote from another post, if it's ok with him for me to do so:


"Signals from a certified Part 15 FM system aren't all that puny. Below is a table showing what to expect over a clear, reflection-free path from the tx antenna to the receive antenna.

Without interference, a decent car radio should receive a usable Part 15-compliant FM signal well beyond a 1,000 foot radius from a tx antenna radiating the maximum legal Part 15 FM field in all compass directions.

Feet > Field, µV/m
9.84 > 250.00 (this is the field defined by the FCC at 3 meters)
19.68 > 125.00
39.36 > 62.50
78.72 > 31.25
157.44 > 15.63
314.88 > 7.81
629.76 > 3.91
1259.52 > 1.95
2519.04 > 0.98

//

Now when I said that Part 15 Certified FM transmitters, whether they are modulators or transmitters in their own right, the signal WILL transmit further than 200 feet... how well the signal is at 1000-2000 feet from the transmitter is a different story.... case in point, most FM recievers have very good sensitivity and will tune into a signal at 22uv, some even less so the better the reciever the further you'll pick up your signal, then there are the powered TV/FM/UHF/VHF antenna/rf amplifiers which if used and hooked up to the reciever can bring the signal better to your radio so perhaps at 2000 feet '1uv' may get to your reciever and have a decent signal... this does go farther than the 200 foot rule the FCC says you must have, doesn't it.

Radiopilot


<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radiopilot on 01/23/06 05:01 PM.</FONT></P>
 
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