Can a part 15 fm re-broadcast on a licensed FM translator if it is close enough? I found a Christian group that has FM translators all over PA, MD,DE and NJ and if the main FM station can not REACH the translator they run a dedicated feed to a part 15 FM and then re-broadcast the part 15 on the translator. Can this legally be done?
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Part 15 FM on a licensed translator?
- Thread starter Radioeng500
- Start date
If I'm not mistaken, the rules for translators are specific to picking up an off-air signal from a LICENSED terrestrial station. Otherwise there would be all sorts of havoc with people feeding translators directly, etc.
Bill,
Thats what I was told as well. The Pastor of this network tells me otherwise.
PJ
Thats what I was told as well. The Pastor of this network tells me otherwise.
PJ
I do know at one time there was a translator in a neighboring town repeating a station from out-of-state via satellite, but there again, it was a licensed, terrestrial station.
If the FCC is going to allow the rebroadcasting of a Part 15 on a translator, they might as well just allow direct local origination.
On the other hand, if this is just a way to REACH around the rule that says commercial band translators must be fed "off air" - then I know of a similar situation.
One NPR affiliate feeds a translator which is way, way outside of the range of either their full power FM or any of their other translators. This particular distant translator is fed by an ISDN line, but it is in the commercial band. Since the signal is still delivered "terrestrially" albeit by ISDN, but not by "satellite" apparently this is legal. However, in this case, what is the point of the aforementioned Part 15 stations? Why not just plug distant translators into ISDN lines (or similar) and be done with it?
On the other hand, if this is just a way to REACH around the rule that says commercial band translators must be fed "off air" - then I know of a similar situation.
One NPR affiliate feeds a translator which is way, way outside of the range of either their full power FM or any of their other translators. This particular distant translator is fed by an ISDN line, but it is in the commercial band. Since the signal is still delivered "terrestrially" albeit by ISDN, but not by "satellite" apparently this is legal. However, in this case, what is the point of the aforementioned Part 15 stations? Why not just plug distant translators into ISDN lines (or similar) and be done with it?
Doesn't this only apply to translators located in the NCE reserved band? I thought that commercial band translators, with no exceptions, had to be fed by terrestrial means, and originally that meant by receiving another FM signal. But now there seem to be a few exceptions. Is it only satellite feeding which is disallowed for commercial band translators?Chuck said:
R
rickradio
Guest
We have the same situation in Sacramento: a Calvary Chapel station in Twin Falls, ID is feeding an FM translator here on 95.5. Twin Falls is probably a good 500 miles from here, I'm guessing, so the signal ain't gettin' picked up off the air and rebroadcast. I'll bet they're ISDNing it here, too. In light of what Chuck says, I guess the Twin Falls station is somewhere in the NCE part of the FM band. Nevertheless, I think this is translator abuse, and is the reason the FM band is so overcrowded, and the EMF, Moody, and American Family crowds are the chief abusers, doing so simply because they can. Who cares how much it crowds the band? They don't: every one of these translators represents a few thousand more wallets/checkbooks.
I was told that if you have a receiver sending a true off-air feed via dedicated line or internet it was ok. Again, a true off-air feed from a FM receiver.
Johnathan said:
There certainly are a lot of translators in the commercial band that get their signals off a satellite or other source. As far as I know, the determining factor is if the originating station must be in the reserved band. If it is, it is OK, if it is not, even if it is a noncommercial educational station, then it is not OK. I think that is a glaring error on the part of the FCC.
My own take on the subject is that any means of reception should be acceptable, if under "normal" circumstances it is possible to receive the originating station off the air at the translator location. This would keep translators "local," but allow translators to be more reliable and have better signals. Translators must endure all kinds of interference problems on their receiving ends. Some of that is man-made, and some is simply Mother Nature at work. Allowing alternate means of reception on local translators (that actually broadcast a reasonably "local" station) would provide much better service to their respective communities.
The original idea of a translator is a very good one, but some folks certainly have abused the concept.
My guess is that K-Love won't turn those translators off, they'll just turn them into repeaters for their Air1 network, once they have a full power K-Love covering the area.
Given everything that's happened, I am almost upset I didn't apply for a few translators during the Great Translator Invasion - I could have "flipped" them for fun and profit, and probably made enough to start an LPFM in the bargain. Barring that, if I at least owned a few translators, I could import something(s) we don't have on the dial in my area already. As it stands, we have one LPFM which repeats an English-speaking religious network from France 24/7. AFAIK it doesn't even air local services from its church licensee. (Granted, they didn't claim a point for local origination.)
Given everything that's happened, I am almost upset I didn't apply for a few translators during the Great Translator Invasion - I could have "flipped" them for fun and profit, and probably made enough to start an LPFM in the bargain. Barring that, if I at least owned a few translators, I could import something(s) we don't have on the dial in my area already. As it stands, we have one LPFM which repeats an English-speaking religious network from France 24/7. AFAIK it doesn't even air local services from its church licensee. (Granted, they didn't claim a point for local origination.)
Johnathan said:
It's kind of a shame that so many LPFM's are just plug in the preaching off the dish and go. Looking at the LPFM database website, it looks like there is plenty of CSN off the dish licensed to "Calvary Chapel of <insert city here>", 3ABN, Radio74, Lifetalk, etc., etc.... The one LP station that is in my area has a heavy dose of automated music but is starting to go live with volunteers during afternoon drive times since they opened a studio just under a year ago. Before that, they ran automated from the transmitter site but did have high school sports live via phone patch.
Chuck said:
This is not true, according to the rules, Chuck.
74.1231(b) An FM translator may be used for the purpose of retransmitting the signals of a primary FM radio broadcast station or another translator station the signal of which is received directly through space, converted, and suitably amplified. However, an FM translator providing fill-in service may use any terrestrial facilities to receive the signal that is being rebroadcast. An FM booster station or a noncommercial educational FM translator station that is operating on a reserved channel (Channels 201–220) and is owned and operated by the licensee of the primary noncommercial educational station it rebroadcasts may use alternative signal delivery means, including, but not limited to, satellite and terrestrial microwave facilities.
They're actually (The FCC) pretty picky about this. Now this DOES allow for a translator to feed another translator. That's the deal with the 95.5 in Sacramento (Rio Linda, actually...A community made famous by Rush Limbaugh) K238AY in Rio Linda 95.5 is fed OFF AIR via K217EA 91.3 in Brownsville, CA. A mighty 6 watts, but with an HAAT of 442 meters.
Brownsville, IN THE RESERVED BAND, can get program via satellite. Rio Linda IN THE COMMERCIAL BAND, translates Brownsville OFF AIR.
Waivers for this are virtually non existant unless you're in Alaska or a white area.
There was a petition to allow satellite fed translators in the Comm band a few years ago. Fortunatly, it was shelved and never saw the light of day.
Clouseau
clouseau said:
I think a lot of people interpret the "which is received directly through space, converted, and suitably amplified" part as satellite rebroadcasting.
I am not a fan of satillators, but there sure are a lot of them. Most of them I hear don't seem to be rebroadcasting an off the air signal. Quite a few of those are in the commercial band. They certainly aren't rebroadcasting a signal that is originated locally.
Chuck said:
They can "Interpret" it any way they want. It is NOT allowed. It is KNOWN it's not allowed. It is a finable offense. It's NOT allowed. If you look at a translator applicatioon, it will NOT be granted if it specifies anything else. I suspect what you are seeing is these "Daisy Chained" satellitors off of an educational band translator from somewhere.
Then again, it's not like laws aren't broken. Most of the time there is a legit feed on the license. Now whether they are actually used might be another matter. The Rio Linda example is pretty typical.
Clouseau
clouseau said:
Well, the only translators I have first hand experience with use either Fanfare or Inovonics receivers, a shoebox size set of filters from Microwave Filters, and one or more high gain Yagi's to get a signal off the air.
On the other hand, I am fairly sure that a lot of religious translators, specifically American Family, EMF, Edgewater, Moody Bible, Bible Broadcasting and even some NPR/PRI stations feed their translators from "alternate means." How they do this, I don't know, but the justification has always been explained to me that the originating station was in the educational band. Perhaps the license says one thing, and the reality is something quite different.
clouseau said:
Not on a public forum. I think you know how to reach me if you'd like to talk further. In the mean time, it might be useful to read the entire quote from the FCC's translator rules, rather than the good Inspector's abbreviated version. Since this is public information, and not copyrighted, I think it is OK to paste it here. I think you will discover that there are several loop-holes which are frequently exploited.
Sec. 74.1231 Purpose and permissible service.
(a) FM translators provide a means whereby the signals of FM broadcast
stations may be retransmitted to areas in which direct reception of such FM
broadcast stations is unsatisfactory due to distance or intervening terrain
barriers.
(b) An FM translator may be used for the purpose of retransmitting the
signals of a primary FM radio broadcast station or another translator
station the signal of which is received directly through space, converted,
and suitably amplified. However, an FM translator providing fill-in service
may use any terrestrial facilities to receive the signal that is being
rebroadcast. An FM booster station or a noncommercial educational FM
translator station that is operating on a reserved channel (Channels
201–220) and is owned and operated by the licensee of the primary
noncommercial educational station it rebroadcasts may use alternative signal
delivery means, including, but not limited to, satellite and terrestrial
microwave facilities. Provided, however, that an applicant for a
noncommercial educational translator operating on a reserved channel
(Channel 201–220) and owned and operated by the licensee of the primary
noncommercial educational FM station it rebroadcasts complies with either
paragraph (b)(1) or (b)(2) of this section:
(1) The applicant demonstrates that:
(i) The transmitter site of the proposed FM translator station is within 80
kilometers of the predicted 1 mV/m contour of the primary station to be
rebroadcast; or,
(ii) The transmitter site of the proposed FM translator station is more than
160 kilometers from the transmitter site of any authorized full service
noncommercial educational FM station; or,
(iii) The application is mutually exclusive with an application containing
the showing as required by Sec. 74.1231(b)(2) (i) or (ii) of this section; or,
(iv) The application is filed after October 1, 1992.
(2) If the transmitter site of the proposed FM translator station is more
than 80 kilometers from the predicted 1 mV/m contour of the primary station
to be rebroadcast or is within 160 kilometers of the transmitter site of any
authorized full service noncommercial educational FM station, the applicant
must show that:
(i) An alternative frequency can be used at the same site as the proposed FM
translator's transmitter location and can provide signal coverage to the
same area encompassed by the applicant's proposed 1 mV/m contour; or,
(ii) An alternative frequency can be used at a different site and can
provide signal coverage to the same area encompassed by the applicant's
proposed 1 mV/m contour.
Note: For paragraphs 74.1231(b) and 74.1231(h) of this section, auxiliary
intercity relay station frequencies may be used to deliver signals to FM
translator and booster stations on a secondary basis only. Such use shall
not interfere with or otherwise preclude use of these frequencies for
transmitting aural programming between the studio and transmitter location
of a broadcast station, or between broadcast stations, as provided in
paragraphs 74.531 (a) and (b) of this part. Prior to filing an application
for an auxiliary intercity relay microwave frequency, the applicant shall
notify the local frequency coordination committee, or, in the absence of a
local frequency coordination committee, any licensees assigned the use of
the proposed operating frequency in the intended location or area of
operation.
(c) The transmissions of each FM translator or booster station shall be
intended only for direct reception by the general public. An FM translator
or booster shall not be operated solely for the purpose of relaying signals
to one or more fixed received points for retransmission, distribution, or
further relaying in order to establish a point-to-point FM radio relay
system.
(d) The technical characteristics of the retransmitted signals shall not be
deliberately altered so as to hinder reception on conventional FM broadcast
receivers.
(e) An FM translator shall not deliberately retransmit the signals of any
station other than the station it is authorized to retransmit. Precautions
shall be taken to avoid unintentional retransmission of such other signals.
(f) A locally generated radio frequency signal similar to that of an FM
broadcast station and modulated with aural information may be connected to
the input terminals of an FM translator for the purpose of transmitting
voice announcements. The radio frequency signals shall be on the same
channel as the normally used off-the-air signal being rebroadcast.
Connection of the locally generated signals shall be made by any automatic
means when transmitting originations concerning financial support. The
connections for emergency transmissions may be made manually. The apparatus
used to generate the local signal that is used to modulate the FM translator
must be capable of producing an aural signal which will provide acceptable
reception on FM receivers designed for the transmission standards employed
by FM broadcast stations.
(g) The aural material transmitted as permitted in paragraph (f) of this
section shall be limited to emergency warnings of imminent danger and to
seeking or acknowledging financial support deemed necessary to the continued
operation of the translator. Originations concerning financial support are
limited to a total of 30 seconds an hour. Within this limitation the length
of any particular announcement will be left to the discretion of the
translator station licensee. Solicitations of contributions shall be limited
to the defrayal of the costs of installation, operation and maintenance of
the translator or acknowledgements of financial support for those purposes.
Such acknowledgements may include identification of the contributors, the
size or nature of the contributions and advertising messages of
contributors. Emergency transmissions shall be no longer or more frequent
than necessary to protect life and property.
(h) FM broadcast booster stations provide a means whereby the licensee of an
FM broadcast station may provide service to areas in any region within the
primary station's predicted, authorized service contours. An FM broadcast
booster station is authorized to retransmit only the signals of its primary
station which have been received directly through space and suitably
amplified, or received by alternative signal delivery means including, but
not limited to, satellite and terrestrial microwave facilities. The FM
booster station shall not retransmit the signals of any other station nor
make independent transmissions, except that locally generated signals may be
used to excite the booster apparatus for the purpose of conducting tests and
measurements essential to the proper installation and maintenance of the
apparatus.
Note: In the case of an FM broadcast station authorized with facilities in
excess of those specified by Sec. 73.211 of this chapter, an FM booster station
will only be authorized within the protected contour of the class of station
being rebroadcast as predicted on the basis of the maximum powers and
heights set forth in that section for the applicable class of FM broadcast
station concerned.
B
board_manager
Guest
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A pirate could take over a translator by just broadcasting on the same frequency as the original station. There's even a translator on Long Island that frequently translates another station due to tropo interference. The distant station that comes in on tropo is in the same direction as the translated station. The distant station is 50kw equivalent, and the translated station is an LPFM. Is it illegal to rebroadcast another station on a translator because of unexpected interference? The interfering station is 100 miles away from the translator, the LPFM is 15 miles away.
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