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Part 15 Stations Terrorized by BMI
- Thread starter LibertyNT
- Start date
It's apparent that it's nothing more than a money grab. The first Part 15 station that tells them to go pound sand will be the litmus test since it's painfully obviously they would have to go and chase every iPod, Zune and any other mp3 player owner who has a broadcast band modulator to get their player's audio into a car or home radio.
The other thing is the first hobbyist who grabs them by the onions and tells them to get lost may or may not have them go after them with some sort of legal recourse, but then are these guys going to foot the expense to: a. locate a station in question, b. document their hour(s) of operation (which in many cases they would be standing in that person's driveway or yard), c. file legal paperwork upon them. This is bound to cost them more than the lousy $200.
So, are they going to go after my friend who takes old broadcast station "airchecks" and plays them in his office and car with his iPod with an FM modulator? Is does sound like a "radio station", right? I think they would be pretty embarrassed if they escolated this up the legal ladder and somebody with half a brain presented the fact of AM and/or FM "modulators" are not recognized stations in the eyes of the FCC along with the fact they are getting dangerously close to infringing on the rights of all owners of mp3 players who use wireless connectivity.
Let me guess, next the greedy SOB's are going to go after my neighbor's kid with his Mister Microphone when he leaves it next to the radio to play disc jockey, right? If these jokers had half a brain they would go after every pirate that got busted by the FCC just by following the violation listing instead of screwing with what pretty much amounts to a small bunch of hobbyists blowing off a little steam.
The other thing is the first hobbyist who grabs them by the onions and tells them to get lost may or may not have them go after them with some sort of legal recourse, but then are these guys going to foot the expense to: a. locate a station in question, b. document their hour(s) of operation (which in many cases they would be standing in that person's driveway or yard), c. file legal paperwork upon them. This is bound to cost them more than the lousy $200.
So, are they going to go after my friend who takes old broadcast station "airchecks" and plays them in his office and car with his iPod with an FM modulator? Is does sound like a "radio station", right? I think they would be pretty embarrassed if they escolated this up the legal ladder and somebody with half a brain presented the fact of AM and/or FM "modulators" are not recognized stations in the eyes of the FCC along with the fact they are getting dangerously close to infringing on the rights of all owners of mp3 players who use wireless connectivity.
Let me guess, next the greedy SOB's are going to go after my neighbor's kid with his Mister Microphone when he leaves it next to the radio to play disc jockey, right? If these jokers had half a brain they would go after every pirate that got busted by the FCC just by following the violation listing instead of screwing with what pretty much amounts to a small bunch of hobbyists blowing off a little steam.
BMI should first get a tarriff applied to boom-car stereos and boom boxes, which are heard by the public as much as or more
than part 15 stations. Most boom boxes carry farther than part 15 FM.
Listening to radio is a choice, listening to boom boxes and automotive stereos (other's) is compulsory.
It is the very definition of public performance. Any device under 10 watts RMS audio power should be exempt, as it's clearly for
personal use and cannot be used to annoy the neighbors.
Part 15 by definition is intended to not be a contender for the public's ear by the coverage area permitted when following the
rules.
I've always felt ASCAP and BMI have had it backwards, and that radio exposure of music is so valuable that BMI and ASCAP should be sending money to radio stations, just like advertisers do.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
than part 15 stations. Most boom boxes carry farther than part 15 FM.
Listening to radio is a choice, listening to boom boxes and automotive stereos (other's) is compulsory.
It is the very definition of public performance. Any device under 10 watts RMS audio power should be exempt, as it's clearly for
personal use and cannot be used to annoy the neighbors.
Part 15 by definition is intended to not be a contender for the public's ear by the coverage area permitted when following the
rules.
I've always felt ASCAP and BMI have had it backwards, and that radio exposure of music is so valuable that BMI and ASCAP should be sending money to radio stations, just like advertisers do.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
We were contacted by ASCAP repeatedly, they also asked for our assistance in turning fellow broadcasters in. BMI also sent a letter requesting payment; that is why we display the fact we never play music from BMI or ASCAP.
I know of a few part 15 AM broadcasters that pay the fees, mainly those who operate their stations as a business, and don't want any hassles. There is a better chance of me donating to the IRS, than give ASCAP or BMI a dime!
Steve
www.radiobrandy.com
I know of a few part 15 AM broadcasters that pay the fees, mainly those who operate their stations as a business, and don't want any hassles. There is a better chance of me donating to the IRS, than give ASCAP or BMI a dime!
Steve
www.radiobrandy.com
I got a call about six months ago. When I told them that I ran a God, Guns and Guts station, they were clueless. They had no idea what I was talking about and the gal on the phone was left blubbering. I never heard from them again. 
Ah, jeez. It's the music industry being stupid again.
Nitwits in suits shaking down grandmas, dead people, single mothers, children and, now, part 15 stations for loose change. Their business model is near death and they're desperately scrambling.
The DiMA, RIAA and others have yammered on about how, without compensation, people will stop making music. I have news for them. As long as humans breathe, they will be making music. It's innate. Worse then not being compensated for a songwriter or musician is creating music that no one hears. That is exactly what will happen unless the music industry backs off.
There is so much new music being created today (and so much world music available) that there is really no need to play music published by ASCAP or BMI, as XRQKFM has discovered.
I'm tempted to load up a hard drive with this music so that, if push came to shove, I can easily shove BMI and ASCAP out of my station.
C5
Nitwits in suits shaking down grandmas, dead people, single mothers, children and, now, part 15 stations for loose change. Their business model is near death and they're desperately scrambling.
The DiMA, RIAA and others have yammered on about how, without compensation, people will stop making music. I have news for them. As long as humans breathe, they will be making music. It's innate. Worse then not being compensated for a songwriter or musician is creating music that no one hears. That is exactly what will happen unless the music industry backs off.
There is so much new music being created today (and so much world music available) that there is really no need to play music published by ASCAP or BMI, as XRQKFM has discovered.
I'm tempted to load up a hard drive with this music so that, if push came to shove, I can easily shove BMI and ASCAP out of my station.
C5
Do the Performance Rights Organizations have the right to demand compensation, yes. Do I agree they should go after Part 15 broadcaster, no. The internet and file sharing has made everyone crazy with greed. Eventually, cooler heads will prevail but for now the C&D will ensue.
If you are a part 15 operator and the only folks who are aware of your actions are friends and family, you have no worries. It's the one who advertise and draw attention.
If you are a part 15 operator and the only folks who are aware of your actions are friends and family, you have no worries. It's the one who advertise and draw attention.
If you feel you're being terrorized by BMI, or other such companies, do this:
Tell them to send you a list of all the artists that they represent so that you may ensure that those artists will not be on your playlist and subsequently will NOT BE HEARD by your audience.
Maybe then, they will remember how it was radio that made hit records!
Tell them to send you a list of all the artists that they represent so that you may ensure that those artists will not be on your playlist and subsequently will NOT BE HEARD by your audience.
Maybe then, they will remember how it was radio that made hit records!
Keep in mind that the collectors are not in the business of making hit records. They're in the collection business. If you're using their content, they feel you should pay. If you don't want to pay, create your own original content.
Everyone wants their money. The artists, musicians, and labels want a piece too, which is why they're going to Congress to get a Performance Royalty. If that happens, Part 15 stations will be hit with that charge as well. They are talking about a minimum $500 fee (vs $200 BMI minimum).
Lots of fees, lots of paperwork, lots of lawyers. That's what it's all about. If you're a hobbyist in this field, they're taking all the fun out of it.
Everyone wants their money. The artists, musicians, and labels want a piece too, which is why they're going to Congress to get a Performance Royalty. If that happens, Part 15 stations will be hit with that charge as well. They are talking about a minimum $500 fee (vs $200 BMI minimum).
Lots of fees, lots of paperwork, lots of lawyers. That's what it's all about. If you're a hobbyist in this field, they're taking all the fun out of it.
I would rather folk over $500 directly to the artist! There is allot of good indie music of all kinds; From country to jazz, we get it all. The best part; is that we don't sound like 500 other radio stations on the dial. The artist not only provide outstanding & innovative product, but are available for in station interviews. We had several artist come from Australia, just to be interviewed by us. It is a win-win for us an the artist, we get fresh music for all of our stations, and the artist gets airplay without charge. Elvis did not just show up on major market radio, he had to work the radio circuit from the ground up.
Fact is the recording industry owes radio for promoting their artist for decades, making them millions in the process. Running a broadcast facility is not free, when you consider, real estate, utilities, staffing, taxes and dealing with all the federal regulations. Perhaps the big boys can join us and drop all airplay of ASCAP & BMI artist for a week, or until they get the message; we are doing them the favor. The stable of artist wishing for airplay is endless, radio spectrum is not!
Steve
www.radiooutlaw.com
Fact is the recording industry owes radio for promoting their artist for decades, making them millions in the process. Running a broadcast facility is not free, when you consider, real estate, utilities, staffing, taxes and dealing with all the federal regulations. Perhaps the big boys can join us and drop all airplay of ASCAP & BMI artist for a week, or until they get the message; we are doing them the favor. The stable of artist wishing for airplay is endless, radio spectrum is not!
Steve
www.radiooutlaw.com
XRQKFM said:
Ahhh if only everything was that simple! After everyone gets their cut, the artist is lucky to walk away with enough money for dinner.
XRQKFM said:
All that's true, but their view is you are making money from their content. I had someone say that to my face. I almost punched them out. They don't care about your expenses. They want their money. We in broadcasting have done a bad job explaining how our system works. Since the music business is owned by foreign conglomerates, they can't understand how we get away with playing their music and not paying for it. In most foreign countries, the broadcasting system is paid for by taxes, so these fees are not a big deal. But to someone like you, it's a huge expense.
The reason I posted what I did is that, I have the impression that BMI and the others have no idea what music/artists any Part 15 station plays. They just want you to automatically pay them. They don't monitor each station, do they?
Make them prove that you are playing their music before just forking over licensing fees.
Does BMI know that I'm playing all original, independent arists with the artist's permission? They don't. And, until I decide to play general, copyrighted music, I'm not paying any licensing fees, just for the asking.
Nobody else should, either.
Make them prove that you are playing their music before just forking over licensing fees.
Does BMI know that I'm playing all original, independent arists with the artist's permission? They don't. And, until I decide to play general, copyrighted music, I'm not paying any licensing fees, just for the asking.
Nobody else should, either.
TheBigA said:
Just to clarify:
- First, music copyrights are IMPOSSIBLE to enforce anymore. Want proof? Read further.
- Part 15 exists as a HOBBY. 99% do not make money, 99% do not ask for donations. They exist purely as radio HOBBIES. Do they need proof? Listen to the programming on Part 15s......
- Part 15 is an avenue that exposes music - especially oldies, music that would be otherwise forgotten by most full power, public and even LPFMs. In return, listeners look for these songs on CD Now or other digital music sources, even their local indie record stores. The Part 15 broadcaster BUYS most of their music, thus keeping older catalogues and Rhino going. Then through the broadcasting of said music, enourages others to buy the music. The RIAA, BMI/ASCAP/SESAC aren't losing anything. What about collecting royalties on the sales of music in places like thrift stores, on eBay and even garage sales? Are they going to do THAT now?
- The big questions are, how far are they willing to go?, how the hell are they going to enforce it? And finally, if these people are going to act like music gestapos, are they even necessary? Will the people rise up and fight back? (I think so),
- Fact is, music is no longer a commodity that can be taxed and regulated anymore. It's like taxing air. Most performers make their money by concerts, t-shirt/program sales, TV appearances and careful saving or investing on their part.
- The RIAA, BMI/ASCAP/SESAC and others are fighting a losing battle. Like I said, they would have to form a worldwide music gestapo that nails EVERY SINGLE OFFENSE. From the little Part 15 radio hobbyist, to the BOOMING rap music blasting out of some poser gangsta's car, to the Grandmas with a rummage sale, to the teenyboppers sharing music off a single iPod via a tiny FM transmitter on the school bus, to the record collector scoring a choice record off eBay, to the college dudes making copies of CDs for their buddies, to the public libraries letting patrons check out music, to the charity sale to raise money for a dying 6 year old girl with some terrible disease, to the thrift store selling a scratchy K-Tel record, etc, etc. Oh, and they have to PAY this gestapo too. Trust me, they will ALL make their quotas and THEN SOME.
You wanna see armageddon? I dare the foriegn owned music industry as well as the RIAA and music publishers to try this. Just TRY it. I DARE THEM ALL! Don't nitpick, ALL or NOTHING......
One more thing, what if ALL broadcasters stopped paying these fees. (Or enough for them to wake up.) How would these extortionists handle it? I'll tell you what would happen: The corporate music industry would COLLAPSE.
And I don't think they want that....
So let's just say fair's fair. We've entered a new age folks, technology has beaten them. And I once said the CD was the WORST thing to ever happen to the music industry. And the proof is in the fact that these millions and millions of CDs are now the master recordings of the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of MP3s circulating freely around the internet, on copied blank CD discs, iPods and other forms of digital storage. I think it's their just desserts for overcharging people for CDs in the '80s, '90s and today with the majority of only a 2-3 good songs at best and more filler than you can shake a meatloaf recipie at. And ironically, vinyl is making a comeback.
So the music industry had better tread VERY carefully and not expect too much. Like everything else in the corporate world, their day of reckoning is here.
Trust me, musicians will still keep making music. But for the sheer LOVE of it, not for some tired old band who have simply lost their groove to score another few million with a bunch of hype and only a mediocre album, or for some tone deaf, musically talentless bimbo actress (who would get nowhere without "some" studio reworking of her vocal tracks) or another dime a million rapper clone of the latest dime a million rapper clone to get on the radio. And it will be the road testing that will seperate the talented from the talentless. That can bring the quality of today's music WAAAY up....
And I don't think they want that....
So let's just say fair's fair. We've entered a new age folks, technology has beaten them. And I once said the CD was the WORST thing to ever happen to the music industry. And the proof is in the fact that these millions and millions of CDs are now the master recordings of the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of MP3s circulating freely around the internet, on copied blank CD discs, iPods and other forms of digital storage. I think it's their just desserts for overcharging people for CDs in the '80s, '90s and today with the majority of only a 2-3 good songs at best and more filler than you can shake a meatloaf recipie at. And ironically, vinyl is making a comeback.
So the music industry had better tread VERY carefully and not expect too much. Like everything else in the corporate world, their day of reckoning is here.
Trust me, musicians will still keep making music. But for the sheer LOVE of it, not for some tired old band who have simply lost their groove to score another few million with a bunch of hype and only a mediocre album, or for some tone deaf, musically talentless bimbo actress (who would get nowhere without "some" studio reworking of her vocal tracks) or another dime a million rapper clone of the latest dime a million rapper clone to get on the radio. And it will be the road testing that will seperate the talented from the talentless. That can bring the quality of today's music WAAAY up....
Bongwater said:
I think you hit the nail on the head with all of this. The music industry wonders how come consumers don't buy music anymore? I think they should look at all the people they angered for a start. Personally, I've gone back to vinyl for several reasons ranging from getting the "correct" versions of songs I heard on the radio to the fact that if the RIAA and the rest of them are out to screw people I know they aren't making a dime from the recycled piece of petroleum I'm buying to put on my turntable.
Just look at what the RIAA calls their "administrative costs" - this is the very same reason why taxpayers are bailing out the banking and auto industries! Get rid of the fat cats making more money than God as well as the lobbyists and put some people in charge who will be paid an HONEST wage as opposed to paying them more money in a year than we make in our working careers.
I think if a Part 15 ever gets bothered by these guys the only reply should be "when you collect from every person with an mp3 music player with an FM transmitter come see me" you'll never get bothered again ... and if you do you'll be the landmark case to make these clowns look like the fools!
Bongwater said:
They're not asking for proof. They're asking for money.
If you tell them you're a hobby, they'll tell you what they told the internet broadcasting hobbyists: You need to change the way you do business so you can pay us our money. You need to collect money from people who listen.
That's the kind of people you're dealing with.
If you don't want to get threatening calls from them, don't play their music. They don't care if it doesn't expose their artists. That's not their job.
- Status