Party

[jcolletta275]

That's one of the things I love about the Miami-Fort Lauderdale board: we know how to debate without resorting to insults and personal attacks.

Dare I say this proves South Florida is the most enlightened region in the country? ;D

Kevin, there are more markets than Chicago that do the format well, I know. But then you also have to look at the markets where the execution is decent - maybe not the best, but definitely not the worst - like Greensboro, Lansing and many others (those are the two I can speak of from experience). Technically speaking, no one can really figure out how Lansing's Mike-FM is doing, as the market seems to be constantly embargoed, but rumor has it things aren't that great. And Greensboro's 98-7 Simon is pulling a 3.3 while #1 sits at 9.1 (and often reaches upwards of 12 in the quarterlies).

Not a negative response in either case, but definitely not enough to deem the station "necessary." As has been pointed out, this format was created to fill a need that doesn't exist... or, at least, didn't exist until the creators told us it did.

 

[radiolover78]

I see your point Josh and I understand what you mean.

 

[top4odj]

I don't give Jack...a chance. The format won't be around in 5 years. It is the "Format DeJur" Tho i've never actually listened to any Jack stations, i've seen playlists, and in my opinion, it's a cheap updated run as a Top 40. :-\

The Great Radio OZ has spoken..........

 

[radiolover78]

The format won't be around in 5 years. It is the "Format DeJur"

I beg to differ. Some people think it is the "flash in the pan" format, but it has been around for over 5 years and it is doing well in many places.

 

[The-Major]

I don't give Jack...a chance. The format won't be around in 5 years. It is the "Format DeJur" Tho i've never actually listened to any Jack stations, i've seen playlists, and in my opinion, it's a cheap updated run as a Top 40. :-\
The Great Radio OZ has spoken..........

I recently read an article online in Newsday (it was actually written a little over a year ago) that referred to 'Jack' radio as 'the McDonaldization of radio' (as in McDonald's).

My thoughts after the reading the article (and knowing what I already knew about 'Jack' and his clones):

I guess if you like no deejays, no personality, no feeling, no news, no sports, no weather, no traffic reports, no local programming at all, obnoxious voiceovers in-between the songs by an egotistical guy (named Jack or Bob or Ken or Mike or Steve or Dick), and odd and MASSIVE playlists spanning 40+ years of hit music where you'll never hear the same song played again in over a week then perhaps 'Jack' is for you. Basically 'Jack' is someone else's idea ('playing what we want') of what could be on your IPOD in continuous shuffle mode. Of course if you like that type of format then perhaps it may be more worthwhile to simply get an IPOD and program it yourself with what you really wish to hear. Now that would not be lazy.

THE MAJOR

 

[954]

I don't give Jack...a chance. The format won't be around in 5 years. It is the "Format DeJur" Tho i've never actually listened to any Jack stations, i've seen playlists, and in my opinion, it's a cheap updated run as a Top 40. :-\
The Great Radio OZ has spoken..........

I recently read an article online in Newsday (it was actually written a little over a year ago) that referred to 'Jack' radio as 'the McDonaldization of radio' (as in McDonald's).

My thoughts after the reading the article (and knowing what I already knew about 'Jack' and his clones):

I guess if you like no deejays, no personality, no feeling, no news, no sports, no weather, no traffic reports, no local programming at all, obnoxious voiceovers in-between the songs by an egotistical guy (named Jack or Bob or Ken or Mike or Steve or Dick), and odd and MASSIVE playlists spanning 40+ years of hit music where you'll never hear the same song played again in over a week then perhaps 'Jack' is for you. Basically 'Jack' is someone else's idea ('playing what we want') of what could be on your IPOD in continuous shuffle mode. Of course if you like that type of format then perhaps it may be more worthwhile to simply get an IPOD and program it yourself with what you really wish to hear. Now that would not be lazy.

THE MAJOR

Well, I transferred all my CDs to my PC, to accomplish the same
effect without shelling out a couple of hundred bucks for an ipod.

Soon I'll buy a new record player and add a couple of hundred
records to that.

I'd bet there is nary a Jack station that plays opera, ska, klezmer,
bebop, and bluegrass... and I bet they don't have Billie Holiday,
Bix Beiderbecke, the Six Brown Brothers, or Benny Bell, either.

Of course, the people who program Jack probably never heard
of any of these anyway. My PC is better!

And if I want personality, I'll come to this very board.

Hit the road, jack!

73s

 

[radiolover78]

I can understand why you guys don't like Jack, but remember it is about the regular listeners. Many listeners like the fact that there is no chit chat from jocks and that there is an interesting variety of music. The "oh wow" factor may wear off after a few months, but that is why the playlist has continue to change, shift around, and even expand. A good program director would continually take certain songs out of rotation and add other ones and so on. That way it will continue to sound somewhat fresh and different.

These stations require a lot of research and gradual development. Having a jockless juke box won't work forever.

I think the problem with many U.S. Jack stations is they don't continue to develop. They just put a playlist of songs on shuffle and hope for the best.

The Canadian Jacks on the other hand have jocks, news, traffic, and weather.

You understand the point I'm trying to make?

 

[jcolletta275]

Exactly... which is exactly why the format will end up dying out. We as a nation set the standard for formatics. Go anywhere overseas, and they're playing our music in our style of presentation. In some cases that presentation may be a bit better than what you hear here, as it's an older version of our style (which, in this situation, is definitely better), but we still created it. The point being that when we export things, we generally export what works best between our own shorelines. Notice no British or Australian stations have picked up on the format? What I see in Canada is spillover... and while it's done well, I still think it will dry up not long after everyone in the States gets bored with it.

 

[954]

Josh... It's funny you mentioned the "Oh Wow factor." Is that anything like the O'Reilly Factor?

Seriously, I've had numerous heated discussions with several folks here (especially another Floridian who shares my first name), and they generally opine that people don't want to say "Oh Wow, I haven't heard that in years" but rather, they want to hear the same dreary old limited number of hits that have been played to death for 10, 20, 30, or 40 years.

So if that is true, why would they suddenly want a huge jack playlist?

OTOH, there's no "Oh wow" if you haven't heard it before unless you are a big fan of the genre and want to hear more. I do an "Oh wow" all the time regarding jazz and ska and music of the 40s and earlier because there is so much of it that I've never heard.

I even "Oh wow" when listening to Chris McDonald because there are plenty of Elvis songs I've never heard. Even though I was never a big Elvis fan anyway! But I don't expect that Jack would ever elicit an "Oh wow" from me.

I go along with what you said, Josh:
- They created a demand for a ridiculous product.
- They're lazy.
- And it won't last long.

OK... g'night, before I get carried away. Too late!

73s

 

[jcolletta275]

Actually, it was Kevin who used "oh wow," but you bring up some excellent points.

Personally, I'd rather say "oh WOW!" in response to a new track on a CHR (which I've found myself doing quite often recently... Nelly Furtado's "Promiscuous," K.T. Tunstall's "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree" and Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy," just to name a few for the curious ) than have the same reaction to a song I've heard over and over again a couple decades ago.

Actually, I wouldn't even call them the same reaction. There's a certain sense of discovery that just adds to the joy when you hear a great new song in your favorite genre! I'm sure The Major can back me up on that ;D

 

[The-Major]

Go anywhere overseas, and they're playing our music in our style of presentation. In some cases that presentation may be a bit better than what you hear here, as it's an older version of our style (which, in this situation, is definitely better), but we still created it. The point being that when we export things, we generally export what works best between our own shorelines. Notice no British or Australian stations have picked up on the format?

As most of you already know I run a very popular hit music web site (going strong for nearly 11 years now). I have a very large loyal fan base in the U.K., but much more so in South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand. I've also been picking up steam in Singapore recently. American hit music (pop, rock, R & B, hip hop, and dance) is HUGE in these English-speaking countries abroad. To stay in tune with my loyal fans from across the sea and down under I make it a point to stay current with their most popular hit music radio stations. Josh C. is absolutely correct. Their (and I'll use the term because it fits here) 'TOP 40' radio stations sound just like ours did - back in the 1980s and 1990s. It's a 'PARTY' atmosphere. They mix hit music with home-grown radio personalities with comedy bits with heavy usage of LIVE listeners' calls. They have fantastic imaging, and they still keep their nations informed as to what is going on in the world today. They do American hit music radio much better than we do it. It may explain why American songs by American artists are much more influential overseas than they are here. Look at any of their official hit music charts. They are more than 50% American. Look at our official hit music charts here in the U.S. Aside from the occasional British pop tune or European dance smash that somehow sneaks onto our charts over here we are so totally isolated. In order to invigorate the hit music scene here in the U.S. the Program Directors should perhaps look beyond our coastlines to see how the British, Europeans, South Africans, Australians, and New Zealanders are doing it.

THE MAJOR

 

[The-Major]

Personally, I'd rather say "oh WOW!" in response to a new track on a CHR (which I've found myself doing quite often recently... Nelly Furtado's "Promiscuous," K.T. Tunstall's "Black Horse and the Cherry Tree" and Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy," just to name a few for the curious ) than have the same reaction to a song I've heard over and over again a couple decades ago.
Actually, I wouldn't even call them the same reaction. There's a certain sense of discovery that just adds to the joy when you hear a great new song in your favorite genre! I'm sure The Major can back me up on that ;D

Hey Josh I can absolutely back you up on that. In my last post I ranted and raved about how brilliantly American 'TOP 40' radio is being done in places such as South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and even Singapore. (You can hear a lot of these great stations streaming LIVE on the web. It's fun to hear about Melbourne Australia's morning rush hour problems [the next morning] when it's 1600 in the afternoon here on the East Coast of the States.)

As far as I'm concerned the hit music here in the States is not the problem. There is plenty of great hit music that's out there today that sounds hot, fresh, and new. The problem is how it's presented on many American CHR-POP (I hate that term) stations. They are bringing so many great songs to an early grave by playing them up to 130+ times a week ! That's 18 to 19 times a day ! They don't do that overseas. You're lucky if you hear the hottest pop songs in the nation once every four to six hours. It keeps you longing to hear them again. It's refreshing whenever you hear them. Hits have a much longer shelf-life overseas as a result of the much less repetition and wider variety of today's hits. You don't need a random 2,500 song 'Jack' playlist from 1966 to 2006 to run a successful hit music radio station. You just need to do it right.

THE MAJOR

 

[radiolover78]

Both Josh and the Major bring up excellent points.

Also, I love KT Tunstall's "Blackhorse & a Cherry Tree"!

There's actually some new music right now I am enjoying.

Rob Thomas' "Ever the Same" and Natasha Bedingfield's "Unwritten". Even though I like "Unwritten", I'm normally not into that pop type of stuff.

But, back to the topic, I think Jack stations can do well if they DEVELOP!

Look at Los Angeles for example, 93.1 Jack FM has been around for way over a year and they are still doing real well. Top 5 25-54.

I happen to simply disagree with you guys on the Jack subject. I think it isn't a "flash in the pan" format as long as it continues to develop, although what Josh says is right. The problem is, some Jack stations aren't developing, but I feel if they continue to develop, they can do very well.

I guess we will see who is right in 5 years or so!

 

[The-Major]

The [Party] Is Not Yet Over ...

Is this thread over ? Say it isn't so ! Well I'm adding the 53RD reply to it ! :

Both Josh and the Major bring up excellent points.
I think Jack stations can do well if they DEVELOP!
Look at Los Angeles for example, 93.1 Jack FM has been around for way over a year and they are still doing real well. Top 5 25-54.

YES - KCBS-FM is one of the JACK-FM success stories. It's tied for #10 overall and it's # 6 among the English-speaking stations. It seems to me that the JACK concept is doing better in the Western U.S. than in the remaining Eastern two-thirds of the nation.

I happen to simply disagree with you guys on the Jack subject. I think it isn't a "flash in the pan" format as long as it continues to develop, although what Josh says is right. The problem is, some Jack stations aren't developing, but I feel if they continue to develop, they can do very well.

There's another format - kinda sorta like the JACK format - that everyone pinned their hopes and dreams on during the late-1990s and into the early part of the new millennium. A lot of stations flipped to it, and nowadays there are only a small handful of those stations remaining. That format - is the 'Jammin' Oldies' format. Basically if it was urban, it was fast, and it was from the '70s and '80s then it was a 'Jammin' Oldie'. It crashed and burned (aside from a few exceptions).

THE MAJOR

 

[jcolletta275]

One of the very stunning differences between Jammin' Oldies and Jack, though, is that the Jammin' Oldies stations actually developed the format across the country in time with one another. What I think determined the success and failure of those stations was simply the markets they were in. Localism was still enough of a popular belief among stations' management staffs that they realized running the format in a way that was geared toward their own market was the only way they were going to make it. Unfortunately, many markets just didn't have enough demand for the format.

Jack... well, all the reasons for lack of success nationwide have been discussed, no use in re-hashing them here

 

[davideduardo]

One of the very stunning differences between Jammin' Oldies and Jack, though, is that the Jammin' Oldies stations actually developed the format across the country in time with one another. What I think determined the success and failure of those stations was simply the markets they were in. Localism was still enough of a popular belief among stations' management staffs that they realized running the format in a way that was geared toward their own market was the only way they were going to make it. Unfortunately, many markets just didn't have enough demand for the format.

Jammin' Oldies was developed for LA, and researched for Hispanic sedcond generation females 25-44.

Unfortunately, the management "whitened" the format so it wiould not have the Hispanic sales stigma.

There are probably less than a dozen markets in the US that have enough second generation Hispanic females in that age to sustain it. LA, Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, San Antonio, and a few others. But instead, they put it in Chicago and places like that. T>he songs were burn candidates for non-Hispanics, and the format was not Hispanic enough to sustain in the good markets. Even a pure attempt at an Hispanic play in San Antonio on KTFM by BMP has failed.

 

[radiolover78]

The problem with Jammin Oldies was the burnout factor too.

 

[PTWorm]

When Jack first came out I had the same perception, that it was a flash in the pan much like Jammin Oldies (though Mojo 94.9 in Cincinnati still does respectably, I hear). But the difference is that as Kevin said, Jack can develop further. I mean this in the sense that it has a much wider library of potential songs to add - there are only so many recognizable "Jammin Oldies", and they all came from essentially one decade, 1975-85 (ballpark - I'm a young' un). But since Jack is drawn from 70s, 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, with a much wider range of what's "format appropriate", it will last as long as programmers can dig up a recognizable song to add to its playlist.

My opinion is that Jack will continually change their libraries in this way to keep the same target demo, much like Oldies stations have been doing nationwide. I've seen plenty of complaints on this board and others that oldies stations no longer play 50s doo-wop and have shifted their playlists to include late-70s stuff in its stead. Jack will do the same thing, I'm sure, dropping 80s songs and adding more mid/late 90s "hits" in order to appeal to my generation as we enter their target demo and the current crop ages out of it.

 

[radiolover78]

Thankyou PTWorm for your insight.

Development is important for these stations, as I have said 9000 times!

 

[954]

Jammin' Oldies was developed for LA, and researched for Hispanic sedcond generation females 25-44.

Unfortunately, the management "whitened" the format so it wiould not have the Hispanic sales stigma.

Will someone please define J.O. for the uninitiated?

And if it's "developed for LA, and researched for Hispanic sedcond generation females 25-44" then why would it have "Hispanic sales stigma" ?

A stigma for giving your target market what it wants?

Sounds stupid to me.

Whose idea is that? Consultants?

ROTFL!

73s