PBS TO LOSE KCET AFFILIATE?

[radiojomo]

I wonder why this hasn't been touch on much on these boards, or the LA TV boards
but the PBS affiliate in LA, KCET, is threatening removing PBS programming to avoid
dues or merging with the other LA area affiliates (KOCE, KVCR, KLCS)

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-onthemedia-20100807,0,173764.column

Is public television finally dying in front of our eyes?

 

[dave73]

My local PBS station, WYIN Gary Indiana holds a lot of pledge drives to support their station. They only started holding a lot of pledge drives when they went to a 24 hour schedule 2 or 3 years ago. They had to drop Create due to the cost of carrying the subchannel.

The problem PBS faces today is that cable television carry similar programming that PBS carries. Another problem PBS faces is that most affiliates are on non-commercial licenses, which prevents them from seeking advertising dollars & run commercials. I wonder how many stations still accept donations to auction off. I used to remember WYIN running such an auction once or twice a year to support the station. The programs used for pledge drives run more like infomercials than actual programming. You can see why people don't want to support their PBS station if they're gonna run infomercial programming for stuff from Ed Slott, Suze Orman (HATE HER ADVICE ), something on diabetes, keeping yourself from aging, and so on. If they're gonna hold pledge drives, they need to revolve it overall around existing programming, and any gifts should pertain to the program itself. I can see some of those concert specials, which can be entertaining, but not the infomercial style programming. I like the occasional Rick Steves Europe portion of the pledge drive, since he tells about his time there that he doesn't talk about in the actual show we see. There are books available as part of the pledge drive, & in most cases, videos. I wouldn't mind seeing some pledge drives revolve around the This Old House Series (that also includes Ask This Old House, & on some stations like WTTW Prime, This Old House Hour, which airs both shows), Lidia's Italy, Nova, Nature, and even Independent Lens. People overall younger than me don't like the idea of paying to keep their local PBS station on the air (much less pay for their music downloads or video downloads, which is another topic all together).

The FCC needs to change it to where the licenses that PBS affiliates hold be changed to commercial licenses. People might think that my suggestion is a bad one, but it's an outdated one. They're already allowing non-commercial stations to run commercials on mobile TV channels. The current method of having to raise funds to keep their stations on the air are overall falling out of favor with people. Cable & satellite carrying similar programming is cutting into their pledge dollars. PBS stations carrying the infomercial style programming to get pledge dollars only hurt themselves by turning away people who are turned off by it (running it excessively makes it worse). I don't know about other PBS stations, but in Chicago, WYIN runs the most pledge drives (some during the day, with most of them being during the overnight hours). For a while WTTW was holding a lot of pledge drives too, but not to the extent that WYIN has. Whenever WTTW would hold a pledge drive on the main channel, some 1st run programming could be moved over their subchannel, WTTW Prime (WTTW's 24 hour primetime channel). Some pledge drives are also held on WTTW Prime (though it costs next to nothing for WTTW to operate as they program that channel themselves), as well as removing Create to run the occasional pledge drives. I'm waiting for WTTW to remove V-Me for a day or 2 to run pledge drives in Spanish. WYCC in Chicago runs the lest number of pledge drives. Instead between promos, they ask for donations via a toll free number, or via their website. Some of the offers they have for donations are for local businesses rather than the infomercial style offers you get from other stations. The few pledge drives that WYCC runs are something that might actually be worth watching. I once saw a cooking show that talked about food, and pairing it with wine. Another time, they showed Blue Man Group performing at the Briar Street Theatre in Chicago.

 

[mjlarochelle]

WQLN in Erie, PA holds an auction at least once a year. And they produce next to no progrmming nowadays.

KCET wouldn't be the first large-market PBS member station to leave the network - WNYE/25 in New York, that city's first non-commercial license, hasn't been a PBS member station in years.

I would not want to see PBS resort to commercial advertising - there is already plenty of advertising-supported television out there already.

 

[KML0224]

Yes, but the difference here with Los Angeles, as opposed to New York City is that KCET-TV is their primary PBS affiliate.

 

[arnoldevns]

Several things need to happen to PBS.
1. get rid of the government funding. You heard me. Get rid of it. That money has always come with political trouble attached. Getting rid of it will allow PBS to free itself to do what it wants. It just needs to replace the revenue with something else. (brings me to point 2)

2. allow PBS stations to sell ads that would run at the end of shows where underwriting announcements run now. Yeah, I know some "ads" run as undewriting, but the rules about what you can put in those announcements are pretty strict.

 

[dave73]

Several things need to happen to PBS.
1. get rid of the government funding. You heard me. Get rid of it. That money has always come with political trouble attached. Getting rid of it will allow PBS to free itself to do what it wants. It just needs to replace the revenue with something else. (brings me to point 2)

2. allow PBS stations to sell ads that would run at the end of shows where underwriting announcements run now. Yeah, I know some "ads" run as undewriting, but the rules about what you can put in those announcements are pretty strict.

#1 is what caused PBS to be formed in the first place. PBS's predecessor was NET (National Educational Television) ran a lot of programming that not only irritated the government, but a number of conservative affiliates as well. Most of NET's primary funding in those days were from the Ford Foundation and any other funding they got from other funding sources (usually sponsorships of specific shows). The federal government wanted PBS created to tone down the programming that NET created and aired on their stations. Had NET had more allies, it might have been possible they could have found other funding sources to stay on the air, and might still be around today.

#2 I like that idea. It would allow stations to get business from organizations & other businesses that might not have considered supporting a PBS station.

Yes, but the difference here with Los Angeles, as opposed to New York City is that KCET-TV is their primary PBS affiliate.

In New York, WNET I believe is the primary PBS affilaite, though the station is licensed to Newark, NJ. In Chicago, WTTW is the primary PBS affilaite with WYCC being the secondary affiliate. If WTTW were to drop PBS, WYCC wouldn't be able to pick up the slack as they focus more on college education programming during the day. They'd rather let WTTW handle the general PBS programming along with showing the childrens programming (WYCC does show childrens programming on weekends to comply with the minimum E/I programming). The Chicago market also has PBS station WYIN, licensed to Gary Indiana. That PBS station does not serve the entire market, due to the station earning the least amount of money of the 3 PBS stations. If they earned more, they could have located their signal in Chicago, which was their original plan, but cost prevented that. So that station has their transmitter around Cedar Lake Indiana, which covers NW Indiana & South Chicagoland, plus parts of the city of Chicago. Another thing about WYIN is that they serve NW Indiana, while commercial stations WPWR-TV (also licensed to Gary Indiana) & WJYS (licensed to Hammond Indiana) are stations licensed to NW Indiana, but are serving Chicago. Even if WYIN had their transmitter in Chicago (which would have made it a full market signal), their focus was gonna be NW Indiana since Chicago stations focus on Chicago & nearby suburbs. WYIN produces a number of local programs, including Lakeshore News Tonight (a low budget news show with news from NW Indiana), Lakeshore Focus (a public affairs show for NW Indiana), and shows a lot of local middle school & high school sports, plus some college sports that doesn't get shown on commercial television. WYIN has also produced a 13 episode series Built To Last, which talks about general home & business construction, and how materials are made, & put together. They also produced a couple of documentaries: Haunts & Legends of Indiana & Dyer, IN: Roots, Reflection & the Road Ahead (not sure if WYIN will market that nationally or not). Unlike WTTW & WYCC, WYIN cross promotes their radio station WLPR 89.1 with the TV station, that they nickname The Lakeshore, and affiliates with NPR.

 

[flytrap]

The thing that drives me crazy about PBS pledge week is for one they keep begging for money to pay for "wonderful progamming like this" which during pledge week is programming that would never ever run in a million years during their regular schedule. For instance, every pledge week they get out the gospel music shows from Elvis, Statler Brothers quartet music, and something produced by Bill Gaither, which is similar to his gospel homecoming tapes. Personally I like a little old fasioned gospel music once in a while, but it pretty obvious that they are aiming to get the old folks to get out the checkbook. The also have the washed up doo wop singers, left over hippies from the sixties and the God awful annoying motivational speakers, which looks like you are at an Amway seminar. Of course after pledge week they drop the "wonderful programming " that they are suppose to be paying far and go back to the same PBS programming. I wish they would stick to the regular shows or bring back the classical music like they used to. They have completly worn out Elvis, Roy Orbison black and white, and doo wop reunion. (which most of the time is not a reunion since most of the original members are either too old or dead)

 

[tripinva]

WCVE/WHTJ by me is finally getting pledge drives right. In June, they tried what they called "Your Voice, Your Choice" in which they left the entire schedule alone and simply replaced some of the promos between programs with video messages asking for donations. It was so popular that they're doing it again. Not in its entirety mind you; apparently there is a group of people who like the pledge drive programming, so they're trying to balance it this time around. Most of the schedule is being left alone, with only some primetime/overnight programming replaced with pledge stuff.

Contrast this with WVPT, who has obliterated their schedule in favor of pledge drive material. Guess which PBS station I'm not watching this week.

- Trip

 

[anotherguyTN]

The thing that drives me crazy about PBS pledge week is for one they keep begging for money to pay for "wonderful progamming like this" which during pledge week is programming that would never ever run in a million years during their regular schedule. 

That's what's irritated me more than anything with PBS stations and why I will never donate as long as they keep lying to viewers like this. Also, in my area the pledge drives run a full month, which makes it even worse.

 

[dave73]

The thing that drives me crazy about PBS pledge week is for one they keep begging for money to pay for "wonderful progamming like this" which during pledge week is programming that would never ever run in a million years during their regular schedule.

That's what's irritated me more than anything with PBS stations and why I will never donate as long as they keep lying to viewers like this. Also, in my area the pledge drives run a full month, which makes it even worse.

WYIN runs their pledge drives practically every day (mostly during the overnight hours with some held during the daytime hours as well). At least they don't interrupt their programming completely. I still say that PBS stations should hold their pledge drives around existing programs in their library. Any gifts offered as part of donations could be used to offer something related to the program itself.

WCVE/WHTJ by me is finally getting pledge drives right. In June, they tried what they called "Your Voice, Your Choice" in which they left the entire schedule alone and simply replaced some of the promos between programs with video messages asking for donations. It was so popular that they're doing it again. Not in its entirety mind you; apparently there is a group of people who like the pledge drive programming, so they're trying to balance it this time around. Most of the schedule is being left alone, with only some primetime/overnight programming replaced with pledge stuff.

Contrast this with WVPT, who has obliterated their schedule in favor of pledge drive material. Guess which PBS station I'm not watching this week.

- Trip

That's what WYCC does between promos asking for donations, instead of the typical pledge drives (though they do hold them, but not like WTTW & WYIN). As I mentioned, WYCC's gifts are primarily for local businesses; whether it's for a dinner at a Chicago restaurant, or to see a show. I never hear people I know complain about WYCC and their pledge drives like I do with WTTW & WYIN (though WTTW hasn't held a new pledge drive in a couple of months).

 

[PTBoardOp94]

WFYI Indianapolis has retrograded their pledge drives.

In the 90s, they would pre-empt the PBS primetime schedule for locally produced documentaries, with begging sessions, hosted in the WFYI studio, every 10 to 15 minutes.

Now, they run the Suze Orman/Piano Guy/Osmonds stuff with the begging done remotely.

When the begging is done from New York (or Washington, or wherever these programs originate), the beggers don't have very many good lines. They can't mention any PBS programs by name, because they don't know if the station airing the pledge program carries "Antiques Roadshow," "Caliou," or "NOVA." They can't mention Chicago or Indianapolis or Minneapolis or Savannah. Really all they can say is "This great PBS programming" and "Call the number at the bottom of the screen".

Not that any of what I've written is related to KCET - they could run pledge drives all the time and still have difficulty coming up with all those millions. California is probably the worst place to be doing business right now.

 

[TheBigA]

1. get rid of the government funding. You heard me. Get rid of it. That money has always come with political trouble attached. Getting rid of it will allow PBS to free itself to do what it wants.

For the most part, government money is gone. Most of it is attached to specific projects, like equipment upgrades or training programs. Depending on the station, there still is state funding. That probably is going away in California, thus the problem at KCET. But their bigger problem is they went from being a "producing station," which produced national programs for PBS, to simply being another station carrying the network. It's easier to raise money for national programming than for sustaining operations.

2. allow PBS stations to sell ads that would run at the end of shows where underwriting announcements run now. Yeah, I know some "ads" run as undewriting, but the rules about what you can put in those announcements are pretty strict.

You think advertising wouldn't come with "strings?" You say getting rid of government money would let PBS do what it wants, then say they should sell ads. Selling ads brings with it a different dynamic built around attracting ratings and promoting the sponsor.

The goal for public broadcasting was to create an ALTERNATIVE to commercial broadcasting, both in programming and financing. Those two are inter-related. If you allow commercials, that opens the door to commercial-style programming.

 

[pab]

It really doesn't help that the FCC doesn't distinguish between types of "non commercial" programming, or commit to those stations to begin with. Here in Southern New Jersey, our "local" PBS station is run out of Trenton, two hours away, and almost never has anything about the Southern half of the state unless it's a story about Atlantic City and/or murders.

We had two other non-commercial allocations that were added in the late days before the digital transition started: Channel 59 in Vineland, and Channel 36 in Atlantic City. Before applications could even be taken, everything was frozen as the digital allotments were dealt out in the late 1990's. In the end, Channel 59 was deleted and never reallocated. Channel 36 became the new frequency for WMGM-DT (an NBC affiliate), and WMGM's former frequency went to a Pay-To-Pray channel, which is (I guess) technically non-commercial.

If the FCC and Congress were serious about community serving public broadcasting, they'd break up the giant groups of four, five, or even twelve station simulcasting "non commercial" pseudo-networks like we have in New Jersey. Barring that, re-open some of the non-commercial allotments it's done away with.

And if you're going to allow religious broadcasters to park on non-commercial frequencies, then kick them off of the commercial frequencies (like channel 48 in Burlington/Philadelphia) or reallocate those channels.

 

[Markxxx]

WYIN has the misfortune of being in the wrong location. This is due to history. When the allocations were made, the South Suburbs of Chicago and NW Indiana were where the money was. Gary had over 200,000 people, Hammond had over 110,000 people. Gary was predicted to climb to over half a million and over take Indianapolis.

Even Kankakee further south had a PBS allocation.

But the steel mills closed, the car factories shut down and the South Suburbs and NW Indiana suddenly was where the money wasn't.

It all went up NW by O'Hare and out west to Naperville, where WYIN's signal doesn't reach OTA.

I think the real question is do we need so many PBS stations in markets. WYCC and WTTW do a nice complement of each other as they don't really dupe each others programming. WYIN does air a lot of the same stuff as WYCC. This is not to say WYIN doesn't air some much needed local stuff, but the market isn't there for it.

 

[TheBigA]

If the FCC and Congress were serious about community serving public broadcasting, they'd break up the giant groups of four, five, or even twelve station simulcasting "non commercial" pseudo-networks like we have in New Jersey.

I don't see that happening for the same reason as I don't see radio returning to 7-7-7. It's become extremely expensive to run TV and radio stations in terms of physical plant. So combining operations is the only way to make it work. This isn't any easier for non-commercial broadcasters.

Plus you have Governor Christie already on record saying he wants to sell NJ Public Broadcasting, or at least turn over operations to someone else. Personally I'd love to see a non-profit community group step up to the table, form a coalition with other educational institutions in the state, and create an independent public broadcasting system. But it wouldn't be what you're talking about. It would be a similar centralized operation, because the town of Vineland simply can't pay for its own non-profit TV station.

You bring up the religious groups, and I fully expect the state to sell its public broadcasting facilities, simply because they have the money and ambition, and no one else does.

 

[TheBigA]

I think the real question is do we need so many PBS stations in markets.

That's a good question, and the answer depends on the station.

In general, there was a time when having a radio or TV station was a point of pride for a community. Today, not so much.

You hear the word "diversity" brought up, so multiple stations meant ownership diversity in some cases. You can see the different characters in the station operators, from university to state to community licensees. They all run their stations differently.

The third thing is programming. PBS stations have access to a lot of programming, and multiple stations give them the ability to program those shows at different times. Unfortunately, some have gotten lazy and just run the network most of the time. But it used to be that one station aired kids programming while the other ran public affairs.

 

[arnoldevns]

Several things need to happen to PBS.
1. get rid of the government funding. You heard me. Get rid of it. That money has always come with political trouble attached. Getting rid of it will allow PBS to free itself to do what it wants. It just needs to replace the revenue with something else. (brings me to point 2)

#1 is what caused PBS to be formed in the first place. PBS's predecessor was NET (National Educational Television) ran a lot of programming that not only irritated the government, but a number of conservative affiliates as well. Most of NET's primary funding in those days were from the Ford Foundation and any other funding they got from other funding sources (usually sponsorships of specific shows). The federal government wanted PBS created to tone down the programming that NET created and aired on their stations. Had NET had more allies, it might have been possible they could have found other funding sources to stay on the air, and might still be around today.

[/quote]

Might be, but that was wrong thinking back then and it's wrong thinking today. In my view, it is never the government's job to dictate what proramming airs. It's also not the government's job to provide funding for TV programming when most people get more than 100 channels in their home these days.

 

[TheBigA]

In my view, it is never the government's job to dictate what proramming airs. It's also not the government's job to provide funding for TV programming when most people get more than 100 channels in their home these days.

That thinking is why Nixon and Reagon cut government funding of public broadcasting. Also why Reagan cut funding to things like the National Endowment for the Arts & Humanities. Those agencies funded PBS shows, such as The Civil War. (although the majority of the money came from GM).

In my many years in public broadcasting, I never heard the government ever "dictate" programming. Certainly never to the degree the corporate funders do today.

 

[dave73]

WYIN has the misfortune of being in the wrong location. This is due to history. When the allocations were made, the South Suburbs of Chicago and NW Indiana were where the money was. Gary had over 200,000 people, Hammond had over 110,000 people. Gary was predicted to climb to over half a million and over take Indianapolis.

Even Kankakee further south had a PBS allocation.

But the steel mills closed, the car factories shut down and the South Suburbs and NW Indiana suddenly was where the money wasn't.

It all went up NW by O'Hare and out west to Naperville, where WYIN's signal doesn't reach OTA.

I think the real question is do we need so many PBS stations in markets. WYCC and WTTW do a nice complement of each other as they don't really dupe each others programming. WYIN does air a lot of the same stuff as WYCC. This is not to say WYIN doesn't air some much needed local stuff, but the market isn't there for it.

WYIN really competes more with WTTW than WYCC, as they're more of a general PBS station. Other than the local shows aimed at NW Indiana, WYIN shows a lot of the same programming that WTTW shows, and to a lesser extent, WYCC. Their original analog allocation kept the station from locating in Chicago due to channel 60 being in Chicago, but also after WYIN signed on for the first time, channel 55 in Kenosha Wisconsin signed on for the first time from Pleasant Prairie Wisconsin. After channel 55 moved their signal to Franksville Wisconsin to cover Milwaukee, & the technology improved to allow short-spaced analog stations to co-locate at the same location (WYIN wanted to put their transmitter on the Sears Tower), WYIN would have been able to locate in Chicago. Their digital allocation of channel 17 can locate in Chicago. Their original applications to move their analog facilities & add digital facilities to the Sears Tower were approved, both WYCC and especially WTTW fought to keep that from happening by petitioning the FCC to block it. The FCC denied both stations' request, but WYIN found that the cost was too much to locate on the Sears Tower, and cancelled both requests to upgrade their existing facilities in Cedar Lake Indiana. For now, they're staying afloat. If WYIN went off the air, it would overall have minimal impact, but it probably would to NW Indiana residents as the station serves NW Indiana, & commercial stations WPWR-TV (licensed to Gary, IN) on RF 51 (originally 50, & was the original non-commercial allocation) & WJYS (licensed to Hammond, IN)on RF 36 (originally RF 62) market to Chicago (like WXFT Aurora, IL & WGBO-DT Joliet, IL also market to Chicago instead of the COL). If WTTW went off the air, or stayed on the air, but dropped PBS would have a negative effect on PBS. If the same thing happened with WYCC, it would also have a negative effect too, but the negative effect would mainly be on the educational programming than general PBS programming. As for the original channel 54 allocation for Kankakee Illinois didn't make sense. Kankakee County to this day is overall too rural to support a non-commercial station. With that in mind, it's no wonder why that channel never went on the air.


As for the original topic; let's hope KCET works out something with PBS to keep the affiliation.

 

[Tim from Springfield IL]

WYIN has the misfortune of being in the wrong location. This is due to history. When the allocations were made, the South Suburbs of Chicago and NW Indiana were where the money was. Gary had over 200,000 people, Hammond had over 110,000 people. Gary was predicted to climb to over half a million and over take Indianapolis.

Even Kankakee further south had a PBS allocation.

But the steel mills closed, the car factories shut down and the South Suburbs and NW Indiana suddenly was where the money wasn't.

It all went up NW by O'Hare and out west to Naperville, where WYIN's signal doesn't reach OTA.

I think the real question is do we need so many PBS stations in markets. WYCC and WTTW do a nice complement of each other as they don't really dupe each others programming. WYIN does air a lot of the same stuff as WYCC. This is not to say WYIN doesn't air some much needed local stuff, but the market isn't there for it.

WYIN really competes more with WTTW than WYCC, as they're more of a general PBS station. Other than the local shows aimed at NW Indiana, WYIN shows a lot of the same programming that WTTW shows, and to a lesser extent, WYCC. Their original analog allocation kept the station from locating in Chicago due to channel 60 being in Chicago, but also after WYIN signed on for the first time, channel 55 in Kenosha Wisconsin signed on for the first time from Pleasant Prairie Wisconsin. After channel 55 moved their signal to Franksville Wisconsin to cover Milwaukee, & the technology improved to allow short-spaced analog stations to co-locate at the same location (WYIN wanted to put their transmitter on the Sears Tower), WYIN would have been able to locate in Chicago. Their digital allocation of channel 17 can locate in Chicago. Their original applications to move their analog facilities & add digital facilities to the Sears Tower were approved, both WYCC and especially WTTW fought to keep that from happening by petitioning the FCC to block it. The FCC denied both stations' request, but WYIN found that the cost was too much to locate on the Sears Tower, and cancelled both requests to upgrade their existing facilities in Cedar Lake Indiana. For now, they're staying afloat. If WYIN went off the air, it would overall have minimal impact, but it probably would to NW Indiana residents as the station serves NW Indiana, & commercial stations WPWR-TV (licensed to Gary, IN) on RF 51 (originally 50, & was the original non-commercial allocation) & WJYS (licensed to Hammond, IN)on RF 36 (originally RF 62) market to Chicago (like WXFT Aurora, IL & WGBO-DT Joliet, IL also market to Chicago instead of the COL). If WTTW went off the air, or stayed on the air, but dropped PBS would have a negative effect on PBS. If the same thing happened with WYCC, it would also have a negative effect too, but the negative effect would mainly be on the educational programming than general PBS programming. As for the original channel 54 allocation for Kankakee Illinois didn't make sense. Kankakee County to this day is overall too rural to support a non-commercial station. With that in mind, it's no wonder why that channel never went on the air.


As for the original topic; let's hope KCET works out something with PBS to keep the affiliation.

Then west of the western suburbs of Chicago, wasn't there once a non-commercial allocation allocated to DeKalb (presumably in the hopes that NIU would be interested)? If so, if it had made it on the air, I would think (despite different DMAs) that the DeKalb non-commercial allotment likely would have served as the de facto PBS station for Rockford (which lacks its own PBS station and must rely on WHA Madison and WTTW via cable). In addition, IIRC this was discussed a few years ago on this board, but didn't Freeport have a non-comm allocation at one time?