PD In and Out at KLOS

[rapking]

Bob Buckmann KLOS new PD . Rita Wilde is OUT .

 

[OCradiodude]

I was wondering how long they were going to keep her after Citadel came in. That station has been flat in ratings for a long time.

What's Bob's experience with formats?

 

[liradioisbad]

I was wondering how long they were going to keep her after Citadel came in. That station has been flat in ratings for a long time.

What's Bob's experience with formats?

I'm a New Yorker who heard about this from another board, and this is right up his alley. He previously programmed the classic rock station in New York for 9 years, and it's the only successful rock format of any kind in New York. Before that, he spent 20 years programming a successful AOR station in suburban Long Island.

I think he'll do just fine.

 

[Beachdog]

Buckmann is the real deal. He even put a cable radio station up on Long Island as a teen, before moving to WBAB. Strong manager and a perfect fit for the format. KLOS will do well.

 

[DToTheJ]

Bob Buckmann KLOS new PD . Rita Wilde is OUT .

Ferchrissakes, it's BUCHMANN. With an H, not a K.

Please, stick to the Boston boards, rapking...

 

[sportstatic]

Bring back Frazier Smith!!!

 

[rapking]

Bob Buckmann KLOS new PD . Rita Wilde is OUT .

Ferchrissakes, it's BUCHMANN. With an H, not a K.

Please, stick to the Boston boards, rapking...

Its a free Country ( Website ). I post where I want to post.

 

[calguy]

She had a nice run at KLOS and from all reports is a great lady. Don't know if she had total control though as the music at times has sounded a little too "Arrow" like. Perhaps the new guy will go a little deeper into albums and give us a little larger variety.

 

[scooty430]

Wow, that's too bad, sort of. Rita Wilde was at KLOS forever, and did a number of cool things like the U2 B-sides compilation (named after herself - the Wilde album) and the semi-annual A to Z. She also did the rock report, which was well done, I felt. Though I don't like Jim Ladd that much, he's at least allowed some freedom on the air, and Wilde supported him.

But overall, she presided over a period of time when KLOS became terribly, terribly boring. You can't play the same 300, 400, or 600 songs for a decade and expect people to stick around. I am smack in their demo (actually a little bit younger) and listened very heavily to KLOS in the 80s and early 90s. I really WANT to like the station, and I've always kept it on my presets.......but I haven't really listened for many, many years.

It's a shame they're probably blaming her for their low ratings, when in fact they probably ordered her to have a small playlist.

Another good example of how having a small playlist does NOT work for stations without new music to play.

Bring on the new PD, and may you play a lot of interesting rock music so I actually want to listen.

 

[radioresearcher]

Wow, that's too bad, sort of. Rita Wilde was at KLOS forever, and did a number of cool things like the U2 B-sides compilation (named after herself - the Wilde album) and the semi-annual A to Z. She also did the rock report, which was well done, I felt. Though I don't like Jim Ladd that much, he's at least allowed some freedom on the air, and Wilde supported him.

But overall, she presided over a period of time when KLOS became terribly, terribly boring. You can't play the same 300, 400, or 600 songs for a decade and expect people to stick around. I am smack in their demo (actually a little bit younger) and listened very heavily to KLOS in the 80s and early 90s. I really WANT to like the station, and I've always kept it on my presets.......but I haven't really listened for many, many years.

It's a shame they're probably blaming her for their low ratings, when in fact they probably ordered her to have a small playlist.

Another good example of how having a small playlist does NOT work for stations without new music to play.

Bring on the new PD, and may you play a lot of interesting rock music so I actually want to listen.

Mediabase monitors 110 Classic Rock stations across the country. The total weekly unique songs range from 204 (WHPT/Tampa) to 1606 at KIHT/St. Louis. KLOS played 932 unique titles last week - which put them at the 12th most.

If anything, KLOS was way too deep for a PPM market. Buchmann's WAXQ is in the 700 range but their hits tend to spin more - and the songs are very familiar. He did a fantastic job with Q104 and I expect he will do the same with KLOS.

Deep cuts cause tune out - plain and simple - just look at Indie.

That doesn't take away Rita's amazing run. She deserves accolades for her passion and dedication to the station.

 

[moldj1]

She also deserves better than just being let go. She deserves the same treatment Erik Braverman got when he left KABC. He was given a few weeks notice. Is that so much to ask for 25 years of faithful service to a really awesome lady.....way to "F" it up AGAIN Citadel!

 

[scooty430]

Wow, that's too bad, sort of. Rita Wilde was at KLOS forever, and did a number of cool things like the U2 B-sides compilation (named after herself - the Wilde album) and the semi-annual A to Z. She also did the rock report, which was well done, I felt. Though I don't like Jim Ladd that much, he's at least allowed some freedom on the air, and Wilde supported him.

But overall, she presided over a period of time when KLOS became terribly, terribly boring. You can't play the same 300, 400, or 600 songs for a decade and expect people to stick around. I am smack in their demo (actually a little bit younger) and listened very heavily to KLOS in the 80s and early 90s. I really WANT to like the station, and I've always kept it on my presets.......but I haven't really listened for many, many years.

It's a shame they're probably blaming her for their low ratings, when in fact they probably ordered her to have a small playlist.

Another good example of how having a small playlist does NOT work for stations without new music to play.

Bring on the new PD, and may you play a lot of interesting rock music so I actually want to listen.

Mediabase monitors 110 Classic Rock stations across the country. The total weekly unique songs range from 204 (WHPT/Tampa) to 1606 at KIHT/St. Louis. KLOS played 932 unique titles last week - which put them at the 12th most.

If anything, KLOS was way too deep for a PPM market. Buchmann's WAXQ is in the 700 range but their hits tend to spin more - and the songs are very familiar. He did a fantastic job with Q104 and I expect he will do the same with KLOS.

Deep cuts cause tune out - plain and simple - just look at Indie.

That doesn't take away Rita's amazing run. She deserves accolades for her passion and dedication to the station.

KLOS has a lot of things that boost the overall count of songs:

- Sunday night albums played back to back
- KLOS "After Hours" very late night / early morning: all deep cuts for many hours.
- Jim Ladd's 8pm-12am show. Very eclectic, lots of deep cuts, little repetition.
- Little Steven's Undergound Garage. 2 hours of songs not on the playlist.
- Saturday night concerts. 2 hours of songs usually not in the playlist.
- Breakfast with the Beatles. 3 or 4 hours of lesser played Beatles songs.

But day in / day out, KLOS was a VERY boring station playing a very small list of songs. THAT is why they are not listened to, not because they were too deep.

Wilde herself put the count at "300 to 400 during the Arrow years, a little bit more now." Keep in mind those 300 to 400 songs were also played to death during the AOR years, so they are really, really fried.

Indie, by the way, is a bad example. Their songs were obscure, not numerous. In fact, in the early days they had a REALLY tiny playlist. (With really tiny ratings.)

"Small playlist-itis" is also why KRTH was dying, until they widened the playlist with Jhani Kaye by adding 70s and some deeper cuts, going from 250 to maybe 800 songs, with many more dropped in and out.

Also note JACK, which had a hand in hurting KLOS, with its 2000 song playlist (according to Kevin Weatherly, 1000 according to David Eduardo.) Again, deep playlists are needed with stations that have no new music. Short playlists only work in the short run, and eventually turn people off not only to the station, but to the entire format.
JACK has really disproved a lot of long-held "radio theories," but it seems not everyone has the memo yet.

Unfortunately, radio stations today only look at the short run, and when the numbers go down, they panic and their only reaction is to tighten things up even more.

If this glorious Bob fellow reduces the playlist even more, I do not see that helping KLOS.

 

[radioresearcher]

Wow, that's too bad, sort of. Rita Wilde was at KLOS forever, and did a number of cool things like the U2 B-sides compilation (named after herself - the Wilde album) and the semi-annual A to Z. She also did the rock report, which was well done, I felt. Though I don't like Jim Ladd that much, he's at least allowed some freedom on the air, and Wilde supported him.

But overall, she presided over a period of time when KLOS became terribly, terribly boring. You can't play the same 300, 400, or 600 songs for a decade and expect people to stick around. I am smack in their demo (actually a little bit younger) and listened very heavily to KLOS in the 80s and early 90s. I really WANT to like the station, and I've always kept it on my presets.......but I haven't really listened for many, many years.

It's a shame they're probably blaming her for their low ratings, when in fact they probably ordered her to have a small playlist.

Another good example of how having a small playlist does NOT work for stations without new music to play.

Bring on the new PD, and may you play a lot of interesting rock music so I actually want to listen.

Mediabase monitors 110 Classic Rock stations across the country. The total weekly unique songs range from 204 (WHPT/Tampa) to 1606 at KIHT/St. Louis. KLOS played 932 unique titles last week - which put them at the 12th most.

If anything, KLOS was way too deep for a PPM market. Buchmann's WAXQ is in the 700 range but their hits tend to spin more - and the songs are very familiar. He did a fantastic job with Q104 and I expect he will do the same with KLOS.

Deep cuts cause tune out - plain and simple - just look at Indie.

That doesn't take away Rita's amazing run. She deserves accolades for her passion and dedication to the station.

KLOS has a lot of things that boost the overall count of songs:

- Sunday night albums played back to back
- KLOS "After Hours" very late night / early morning: all deep cuts for many hours.
- Jim Ladd's 8pm-12am show. Very eclectic, lots of deep cuts, little repetition.
- Little Steven's Undergound Garage. 2 hours of songs not on the playlist.
- Saturday night concerts. 2 hours of songs usually not in the playlist.
- Breakfast with the Beatles. 3 or 4 hours of lesser played Beatles songs.

But day in / day out, KLOS was a VERY boring station playing a very small list of songs. THAT is why they are not listened to, not because they were too deep.

This is also why KRTH was dying, until they widened the playlist with Jhani Kaye by adding 70s and some deeper cuts, going from 250 to maybe 800 songs, with many more dropped in and out.

Also note JACK, which had a hand in hurting KLOS, with its 2000 song playlist (according to Kevin Weatherly, 1000 according to David Eduardo.) Again, deep playlists are needed with stations that have no new music. Short playlist only work in the short run, and eventually turn people off not only to the station, but to the entire format.

The A-Z really did poorly - about 30% lower than their regular programming. That is a great example of how unfamiliar will kill you. You are correct about a lot of the special programming - but that's a thing that doesn't work as well in PPM.

JACK plays about 800-900 songs on a weekly basis. That is a fact. They may rotate up to 2000 in and out, but in a normal week that number is about 850.

KRTH didn't go up just because Jhani added songs. The PPM helped him more than anything as did updating the music about 5 years on average. He's done a great job, but to not give the meter an assist - wouldn't be fair.

 

[scooty430]

Apples and oranges comparing A to Z to regular programming. Why? All the people forced to listen to KLOS at work were on vacation, and many of those remaining probably had someone switch the channel to KOST for the Xmas bonanza. (There's always ONE in every office...)

They did it many many times, so it must have worked at some point. The A to Z, I mean.

As for JACK, 900 songs is still quite a few. KLOS not only had (and has) WAY fewer songs, it doesn't change them. You're going to hear "Money" by Pink Floyd this week, next week, and the week after that.... Same "Money" you heard in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s.

When you talk about a 2000 song playlist, I think it counts if you are bringing songs in and out. In fact, that is good. So if JACK is using 2000 songs in a given year, and KLOS is using 500, that is a big difference.

As for KRTH, you could argue that it is the content (70s versus 60s) that made the numbers go up. Hard to say. They were, though, up way before PPM - Jhani's been there awhile. But at the end of the day, they are now at around 800 titles (with more rotated in and out, clearly) and they used to be 250.

250=ratings falling. 800=#3 station. Bigger playlist=bigger ratings.

 

[OCradiodude]

I think this has to do with relevance. KLOS isn't relevant and hasn't been since the 80s. KCBS-FM (Jack) is much more relevant and cheaper to run.

As we all know KCBS and KLOS were competing for the same audiance for several years. Obiously, KCBS had to change. KLOS is still stuck.

I hope Bob does some good things with KLOS.

 

[scooty430]

I hope he does "good things" for KLOS too. By good, I mean make it less boring.

By the way, the KLOS/JACK competition must be over desirable demos. They are essentially tied in the overall ratings. JACK is 14th with a 3.0, and KLOS is 15th with a 2.9.

JACK is .1 "more relevant" than KLOS.

Interesting to see that KRTH is almost tied with #1 KIIS, not counting the Xmas period. They were #3 Xmas, #2 before that. (Ya, ya 12+ doesn't mean anything, bla bla bla. I'll say that so you don't have to, DE.)

 

[david91326]

She also deserves better than just being let go. She deserves the same treatment Erik Braverman got when he left KABC. He was given a few weeks notice. Is that so much to ask for 25 years of faithful service to a really awesome lady.....way to "F" it up AGAIN Citadel!

Jim Ladd gave her a really nice tribute on his show on the night of her termination.

 

[davideduardo]

By the way, the KLOS/JACK competition must be over desirable demos. They are essentially tied in the overall ratings. JACK is 14th with a 3.0, and KLOS is 15th with a 2.9.

That is in 6+, which is meaningless and which is why, as I have mentioned to you before, Arbitron gives it away for free.

Interesting to see that KRTH is almost tied with #1 KIIS, not counting the Xmas period. They were #3 Xmas, #2 before that. (Ya, ya 12+ doesn't mean anything, bla bla bla. I'll say that so you don't have to, DE.)

3rd week of "Holiday" in 25-54, KIIS had a #1 with a 7.1 and KRTH had an 11th with a 3.6. In 12+, same week, KIIS 1st and KRTH 3rd, but two whole points away.

I'll mention the irrelevance of 12+ until you realize that the radio industry can not and does not program to 12+ because both under-18's and over-55's are not much wanted by advertisers so there is no market there for commercial radio. To make observations based on 12+ is unrealistic and disingenuous.

 

[radioresearcher]

By the way, the KLOS/JACK competition must be over desirable demos. They are essentially tied in the overall ratings. JACK is 14th with a 3.0, and KLOS is 15th with a 2.9.

That is in 6+, which is meaningless and which is why, as I have mentioned to you before, Arbitron gives it away for free.

Interesting to see that KRTH is almost tied with #1 KIIS, not counting the Xmas period. They were #3 Xmas, #2 before that. (Ya, ya 12+ doesn't mean anything, bla bla bla. I'll say that so you don't have to, DE.)

Scooty:


Numbers I am referring to were after KOST flipped from Christmas. KLOS and JACK are tighter 25-54 in meter than diary - however, KLOS is being driven by mornings. In the music dayparts, JACK tends to win pretty easily.

I remember when ARROW flipped to JACK and KLOS thought it was a good thing. In reality, it wasn't. JACK is the Classic Rock station in a lot of ways for Los Angeles.

KROQ was an important part of the rock landscape in the 80's - so much so that KMET went away because the changing ethnic landscape of the marketplace couldn't support that many rock stations.

Because of the Modern Rock influence - L.A. isn't your normal Classic Rock market. October was the only month KRTH was even in the top 5 25-54. The meter has helped Oldies/Classic Hits. KOLA has seen their numbers go way up, as has WLS-FM and WCBS-FM.

But all of those except WLS-FM have made music changes to make their stations younger.








3rd week of "Holiday" in 25-54, KIIS had a #1 with a 7.1 and KRTH had an 11th with a 3.6. In 12+, same week, KIIS 1st and KRTH 3rd, but two whole points away.

I'll mention the irrelevance of 12+ until you realize that the radio industry can not and does not program to 12+ because both under-18's and over-55's are not much wanted by advertisers so there is no market there for commercial radio. To make observations based on 12+ is unrealistic and disingenuous.

 

[scooty430]

By the way, the KLOS/JACK competition must be over desirable demos. They are essentially tied in the overall ratings. JACK is 14th with a 3.0, and KLOS is 15th with a 2.9.

That is in 6+, which is meaningless and which is why, as I have mentioned to you before, Arbitron gives it away for free.

Interesting to see that KRTH is almost tied with #1 KIIS, not counting the Xmas period. They were #3 Xmas, #2 before that. (Ya, ya 12+ doesn't mean anything, bla bla bla. I'll say that so you don't have to, DE.)

3rd week of "Holiday" in 25-54, KIIS had a #1 with a 7.1 and KRTH had an 11th with a 3.6. In 12+, same week, KIIS 1st and KRTH 3rd, but two whole points away.

I'll mention the irrelevance of 12+ until you realize that the radio industry can not and does not program to 12+ because both under-18's and over-55's are not much wanted by advertisers so there is no market there for commercial radio. To make observations based on 12+ is unrealistic and disingenuous.

What part of "I'll say it so you don't have to" did you not understand?

We ALL understand that people of a certain age are desirable to advertisers. WE GET IT.

Move on.