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People are so negative about HD Radio

I'm not sure HD radio is eating into any station or groups profits. I would argue that streaming is more expensive, given the CARP and other fees and taxes being charged for streaming via the public Internet. Frankly I've yet to understand the model behind that idea either.. There have been no stations that stream who have seen ratings or revenue increases. This includes the whole idea of making it easier to listen while at work through their work PC.

In fact, many larger business and government organizations have blocked the ability to stream radio or video to the desktop due to the productivity decrease and bandwidth usage. Microsoft is one of those organizations that block streaming to employee office PC's except through Microsoft sites.

The stations that already made the big investments in HD radio transmission and encoding equipment don't pay anything other than electricity and, depending on the station or group, their Ibquity license fee which I believe is every three years.
 
I wonder how many station managers will elect not to pay Ibiquity for another 3 years when their licenses come up for renewal. I'd bet that we will see a few cases of this.
 
Bongwater said:
And just LOOK at what you hear on HD 2/3....Why here's......OK, so it's wall to wall Christian Rock with no DJs or personality....hang on....Oh wait, here's the BBC World Service!.......And.....All Comedy.....and.....wall to wall gay dance music.....and.....some talk program about new age healing crystals.....and......a simulcast of Rush Limbaugh.....and.....

Let's face it. The offerings just aren't that exciting.

I actually pay to have that diverse of a selection on Houston HD-2's and 3's! Gives you an idea about how dismal our situation is ---. And I DO pay for the content - satellite and monthly data package to stream through my iPhone. But the point is made - without compelling content on HD-2 and 3's, consumers will have little interest in buying an HD radio to hear it.
 
HowardMBurgers said:
Hi Nick, Welcome to the HD radio discussion group! As you can probably tell by now, the forum has been pretty well occupied by those who appear to feel HD radio is on par with the apocalypse. Some feel they have been personally and financially injured by some AM stations implementing the Ibquity IBOC system, others who enjoy long-distance listening as a hobby, (Medium-Wave DX'ers) don't appreciate the interference to their hobby, while some appear to be older folks who think AM is fine the way it is. Really it doesn't take long to read between the lines.

I think you read too much between the lines. If anybody has given HD radio a fair chance, it is me. I own two HD radios. I listen to HD-2 channels on occasion, and listen to AM HD - when and if it actually works. I've given technical assistance to those trying to get HD radio reception - antenna selection and installation, etc.

That said - I also take a cold, hard look at the technology and am appalled at what I see. I have well documented the shortcomings of both the AM and FM systems, with tests as scientifically accurate as possible. I've torn into receivers to see how compatible they are with HD technology. I don't think anybody outside the advocacy groups for this technology have done more testing.

Yes, I do long distance listening. But for more than 40 years, it has not been a hobby. It has been the only way to get musical formats I want. Now, there is satellite and streaming, and you can bet that after 40 years I am good and tired of eating static because local broadcasters suck - now I can get static free satellite and streaming, and forget large antennas, modifying receivers to be more sensitive and selective, and the like. What a bunch of wasted time and effort over the years, all because local broadcasters can never seem to "get it right"!

As an independent voice, I have no financial stake in the success or failure of the technology. For what it is worth:

- I see assumptions, based on solving problems that simply don't apply to the majority of people.

- I see very bad engineering, systems not adequately tested before going public, a lot of posturing and denial when problems occur, ad hominen arguments directed at those who point out the problems, and intimidation. These are NOT signs that the system has credibility.

- I see poor marketing techniques that do not address the advantages to the consumer of the technology. If they want to sell HD to the public, they need to fire their ad agency and get another.

Specific technical issues: AM

(1) I have documented very well that most newly designed AM radios are inherently broadband, just because the manufacturer puts as little money into the IF section as possible, sometimes bypassing it with a capacitor making the only selectivity in the receiver due to the antenna and tuning capacitor. +/- 40 kHz IF bandwidth is commonplace. Given that wide of a bandwidth, the portions of HD signal occupying 10 to 15 kHz punch right through, and tiny speakers make terrific tweeters for those frequencies.

(2) The attempt to hide HD modulation by phase modulating it from 5 to 10 kHz is worthless, because no antenna system has flat phase response and a portion of the modulation gets converted to amplitude modulation. And any mis-tuning at all, which is very easy to do with cheap mechanical lashing on the tuning mechanism in cheap radios virtually guarantees that precise tuning won't happen - therefore more IBOC sideband hiss showing up in the audio of the radio.

(3) Ibiquity's test radios were a collection of 10 to 30 year old antiques, which primarily used the three IF can reference design which is no longer produced because it is expensive, takes up too much space on a PC board, is power hungry, and is not as reliable as single IC designs. The single IC reference design has dominated every new design done in the last ten years, if not longer. And older radios get tossed because the volume knob gets scratchy - "oops my radio doesn't work, I need a new one ---"

(4) The AM HD system is very prone to interference, causing loss of lock. The slightest bit of noise and the lock is gone - which effectively makes it useless at night, because every single frequency has multiple stations on it. The same interference susceptibility causes lock to be lost going under power lines or other sources of interference. This also presents a safety hazard to drivers - before they could hear the interference increasing and decrease the volume. Now there is an abrupt change from perfect clarity to very loud interference, something HD cannot alleviate.

(5) The low bit rate that has to be employed because of narrow channel bandwidth may be adequate for speech, but it cause strange aliasing effects on music, making it very unpleasant to listen to, something akin to a medium bandwidth internet stream.

(6) The digital sidebands are more persistant that anybody could have predicted, I have personally hear sideband pairs in the daytime over 1000 miles from the station, in remote rural areas - long past the point where the analog signal can be heard at all. Surprising, given the lack of robustness of the system maintaining lock, and given the power levels involved. Yet the sidebands persist, clearly audible. It is very obvious who the offender is, when sideband pairs appear - and no other HD station is on the air in the country.

(7) Nighttime HD sidebands are horrific. I have never heard WOR from Texas. Yet its sideband pair is there at night, and disappears when I null the radio in the precise heading of the WOR transmitter. No wonder multiple broadcasters are crying foul about interference with their station from distant HD stations, and no wonder stations owned by the same group shut down HD to avoid interfering with each other.

FM technical issues:

(1) First adjacent reception is not an issue near city centers or near transmitter sites, there simply aren't that many first adjacents existing. But the situation changes dramatically in suburbs, particularly in the East. First adjacents are commonplace, enough so that even NPR is backing off from wanting a full power increase. Some of those suburbs are sources of affluent donators, who are not eager to lose their first adjacent station, especially when the signal strengths are close to the same.

(2) IC makers have poured a lot of money into FM IC's, and new technologies such as adaptive IF make first adjacent reception much easier, if not commonplace. Stations that were previously inaudible now come through clearly. It doesn't take long for people to discover them, especially with the ill-conceived "stations between the stations" ad campaign - which encourage people to tune their radios to more distant stations.

(3) The entire duration of the HD FM roll-out has been in an era of unprecedented low solar activity. Solar activity is cyclical, and the next solar max is going to take place in 2012 or 2013. The presence of HD sidebands, which will propagate like separate stations, will produce unpredictable and probably bizarre results, with the analog portion of a station taken over by an HD station on the same frequency hundreds of miles away. This has already happened on a small scale, with numerous reports of strange and sometimes humorous switch overs. These will become commonplace, particularly if an ill-advised power increase is granted. People's annoyance threshold is very low - if OTA radio isn't reliable, there are an every increasing array of more reliable music sources.

(4) Carefully conducted experiments show that HD lock can be easily obtained using nothing but a dipole 70 miles from Dallas, and 84 miles from Houston. This is about the range that the stereo carrier is starting to be lost. Therefore, the range of HD FM is comparable to the range of stereo FM, at least in those markets. NO power increase is necessary or warranted - people who don't have reliable analog reception won't have reliable HD reception, and vice versa.

(5) A 10 dB power increase will do nothing to help HD in the fringes, where it is dropping out now. Fringe area reception is characterized by signal strength fluctuations of 60 dB. Given the lock time of HD, 10 dB will do little to alleviate the problem for drivers.

(6) The same large signal fluctuations exist near airports, causing problems as close as ten miles from the Dallas sticks, according to one report. I have personally heard the HD problem near airports - a plane files over and lock is lost. It doesn't come back reliably until the plane is far away.

(7) In spite of the claims that HD fights multipath, the wailing of listeners in hilly areas such as West of Boston leads to the inescapable conclusion that HD does little to fight multipath, lock is simply lost when multiple signal paths are present. I suspect the same will happen when skip occurs, or in first adjacent situations.

(8) A 10 dB power increase will do little to penetrate buildings. I used a spectrum analyzer to look at signal strengths inside a building. I saw a 10 dB drop every 6 to 8 feet away from the window. That is about one row of cubicles. Not a lot of additional listeners, who are probably defying their computer admin's rule against streaming as it is.

And so forth --- the list of problems goes on and on, the whole thing starting to assume the appearance of a conspiracy or a religion. As for me - the emperor has no clothes. HD myths - BUSTED. I'm an experienced engineer, not likely to make too many observational mistakes, and the whole HD thing is full of technical problems, factual distortions by the promoters, and a lot of posturing by the HD industry to keep from losing their financial shirt - which is probably inevitable at this point anyway. It has all the earmarks of somebody wanted to preserve some sort of share value, then bail out of their stock at the last moment before the defecation hits the rotary ventilation device.

OK- flame away - but do me the favor of telling me where I have made FACTUAL errors in my observations. I have no tolerance for ad hominem remarks and will ignore them.
 
Bongwater said:
What people AREN'T talking about here is the CONTENT of these HD 2/3 subchannels. That was supposed to be the REAL selling point of HD. That you can hear even MORE variety, MORE exciting programming, far out music, lots of FUN stuff.....

And just LOOK at what you hear on HD 2/3....Why here's......OK, so it's wall to wall Christian Rock with no DJs or personality....hang on....Oh wait, here's the BBC World Service!.......And.....All Comedy.....and.....wall to wall gay dance music.....and.....some talk program about new age healing crystals.....and......a simulcast of Rush Limbaugh.....and.....

Let's face it. The offerings just aren't that exciting. Nor as thrilling as we hoped. You can blame that on the economy, blah, blah, blah. But ain't nobody gonna spend $100-200 on a glorified box of redundancy when there's FAR more exciting radio via the internet. And as WiFi develops bigger and more powerful networks coast to coast, HD will be dumped by the wayside unless stations start getting serious about the development of the HD radio programming content, adding live, local personality, treating each HD subchannel like an actual top level station. And PROMOTE each HD station VIGOROUSLY. TV spots, print, billboards, whatever. That's the ONLY way it's even going to develop public interest..at all......

There was a short item in Inside Radio about stations brokering their HD side channels. So it's probably safe to say that in the coming year we'll see more and more stations throw in the towel on programming and selling their side channels and, instead, either broker or do an outright LMA with them.

Whether that results in any more compelling programming or an increase in HD Radio sales, we'll have to wait to see.
 
Carmine5 said:
There was a short item in Inside Radio about stations brokering their HD side channels. So it's probably safe to say that in the coming year we'll see more and more stations throw in the towel on programming and selling their side channels and, instead, either broker or do an outright LMA with them.

Whether that results in any more compelling programming or an increase in HD Radio sales, we'll have to wait to see.

Yes I've heard that rumor as well. However I believe that is all that it is, a rumor. It's been a while since looking over an Ibquity license agreement, but I believe at this time there are no provisions to broker or encrypt (pay per listen) your HD channels. Now certainly if there were financial opportunities that could be used to monetize or recover lost capital by selling access to the HD channels, then perhaps that could be negotiated at license renewal time with Ibquity. This scenario is especially true since the acceptance by consumers doesn't seem to have gone very well.
 
Thanks for that insightful and interesting post, rbruce! In reading through it, I can personally attest to every technical issue that you've listed there. Even in areas bathed in a strong FM signal (like the Salt Lake valley in Utah), my portable HD radio STILL lost lock frequently when walking around. Probably picking up the signals as they bounce off the nearby mountains, causing the HD to trip off. Then I'd have to go back to the main channel for the HD feed to reload again. As you've stated, the 10 db increase will do nothing to address such an issue; it's a fundamental characteristic of the technology.

As for AM IBOC, it's junk science. Screaming sidebands that often stretch 20 kHz on either side of the main signal on most radios. I get sideband interference over stations (like WBZ) that are guilty of doing the same thing to others. Often it's not even obvious who's sidebands are ruining my listening experience.

All that the sidebands on AM are doing is hastening the demise of the band. If the band is the province of older listeners (55+ is often cited), why in the Hell do you muck it up with a noisy new technology that they would be the LAST to adopt? What sense does that make? Absurd.
 
rbrucecarter5 said:
I think you read too much between the lines. If anybody has given HD radio a fair chance, it is me. I own two HD radios. I listen to HD-2 channels on occasion, and listen to AM HD - when and if it actually works. I've given technical assistance to those trying to get HD radio reception - antenna selection and installation, etc.

That said - I also take a cold, hard look at the technology and am appalled at what I see. I have well documented the shortcomings of both the AM and FM systems, with tests as scientifically accurate as possible. I've torn into receivers to see how compatible they are with HD technology. I don't think anybody outside the advocacy groups for this technology have done more testing.

OK- flame away - but do me the favor of telling me where I have made FACTUAL errors in my observations. I have no tolerance for ad hominem remarks and will ignore them.

Bruce, I'm not here to "flame" anyone. My point was that there really is no need to effectively ram your personal opinions about HD radio down a new contributor's throat. You can ignore my comments all you like, but the fact is there are people, radio hobbyests and alike perhaps younger than you, that are interested in discussing HD radio here from time to time. What they typically get are you and other's, launching into some techno-babble or non specific diatribe how evil HD radio is. Conspiracy Bruce? No, I don't think so.

If I were some 20 something or younger individual and read all the venom and preaching to the choir on this site, I'd be hesitant to ask a question or make an observation too.

Now I'm sure some would value all your painstaking research and personal observations, but my point was to show someone who had a simple question perhaps a little balance from all the negativity. It's cool to have an opinion, but some posts here border on obsession.
 
beantownradio25 said:
Technology evolves!!! :-X Why are people so negative about HD Radio?

I personally love it, more choices in dramatically better sound quality. I live about 30 miles from Boston and can get most stations in full stength HD.

In addition to what has been mentioned, there is the proprietary nature of HD Radio and the virtual head lock iBiquity has put stations broadcasting HD in by way of exorbitant and, in most cases, ongoing license/royalty fees. Nobody likes a monopoly (unless you're the one doing the monopolizing, of course).

Also, while HD Radio was under development other, better systems were being developed as well such as FMeXtra. But the FCC, by selecting HD Radio as the U.S. standard, essentially shut them out. Yes, a station is still free to install FMeXtra, but who's going to hear it?

BTW, the FCC has apparently taken a page out of the iBiquity handbook and is using it for DTV. Any television station broadcasting ancillary services that bring in additional income (this would be other than free OTA TV) must send the Commission 5% of the gross revenues derived from such services. As Jimmy Durante used to say, "Everybody wants to get into da' act."

c5
 
HowardMBurgers said:
Bruce, I'm not here to "flame" anyone. My point was that there really is no need to effectively ram your personal opinions about HD radio down a new contributor's throat. You can ignore my comments all you like, but the fact is there are people, radio hobbyests and alike perhaps younger than you, that are interested in discussing HD radio here from time to time. What they typically get are you and other's, launching into some techno-babble or non specific diatribe how evil HD radio is. Conspiracy Bruce? No, I don't think so.

If I were some 20 something or younger individual and read all the venom and preaching to the choir on this site, I'd be hesitant to ask a question or make an observation too.

Now I'm sure some would value all your painstaking research and personal observations, but my point was to show someone who had a simple question perhaps a little balance from all the negativity. It's cool to have an opinion, but some posts here border on obsession.

Points made well - we are all professionals here.

Actually - my opinions are valueless. All that matters are facts, something the other side tends to ignore at the peril of free broadcast radio in the US. Which is big news right now for television. Free, over the air television may become a thing of the past due to alternate distribution techniques and market pressures. With HD making interference all over the band - advertising revenues plummeting - and copyright royalty fees skyrocketing - is free over the air radio doomed to go next in 5 or 10 years? Something to be concerned about. Or not - depending on your position in the industry.
 
Carmine5 said:
BTW, the FCC has apparently taken a page out of the iBiquity handbook and is using it for DTV. Any television station broadcasting ancillary services that bring in additional income (this would be other than free OTA TV) must send the Commission 5% of the gross revenues derived from such services. As Jimmy Durante used to say, "Everybody wants to get into da' act."

c5

The rule that you speak of has been in place for DTV since 2004. To paraphrase; what happenned was when several station groups and the NAB made comments that since the government was forcing broadcast stations to build and transfer to digital transmission, an opportunity existed for stations to recover their investment via 'multicasting', rather than a single HD transmission. There was a bit of scrambling around by the FCC, who was concerned about the political fallout from allowing stations to charge for use of a stations licensed 'digital' spectrum (which is amusing since FM was doing SCA for hire since the 80's). That's when the FCC stepped in and said, great.. If you make any non-traditional revenue off your new digital channel, we want a piece of the action..uh..to cover administrative costs of course..

To your point about FM Extra.. For the same reason Leonard Kahn never got traction with his invention, so went the FM Extra folks. Both systems, right or wrong, were developed in a basement or garage. Rather than going to a larger company and effectively selling the intellectual rights or product to someone who could take it to the next level, they stupidly chose to keep it to themselves and go up against a big organization like Ibquity. Bad move.

I saw the FM Extra equipment at NAB for about three years. In every instance the equipment wasn't working for a demo at the show and looked to be nothing more than a messy black-spray painted project box with some connectors coming out the back. The last year those guy's were at NAB, I couldn't believe the box hadn't changed nor was the demonstration working. Maybe it was just timing on my part, but I for one was not impressed. Apparently neither were the folks who could help to advance the product.
 
Nick said:
Radio stations will likely dump HD when they realize it's eating into their profits and more people are listening to the HD2s via the web streams.

This is already happening. One of my contract engineering clients (an FM station) needs to reduce its electric bill and has decided to shut off HD until further notice. I'm bypassing the combiner next Tuesday; the digital transmitter will be plumbed into the transfer switch as a conventional analog auxiliary so it will still be useful in case of emergency. The station's former HD-2 format is available on a sister station's web stream, so they will simply post a link to that URL on their home page.

I've calculated a cost savings of over $20,000 in the next year, which is substantial, given this station's economic outlook. Some of this money will be invested in construction of an FM translator to resolve some coverage issues. It will greatly increase penetration in the most densely populated portion of the market, so we expect a fairly short payback period.
 
HowardMBurgers said:
Carmine5 said:
There was a short item in Inside Radio about stations brokering their HD side channels. So it's probably safe to say that in the coming year we'll see more and more stations throw in the towel on programming and selling their side channels and, instead, either broker or do an outright LMA with them.

Whether that results in any more compelling programming or an increase in HD Radio sales, we'll have to wait to see.

Yes I've heard that rumor as well. However I believe that is all that it is, a rumor. It's been a while since looking over an Ibquity license agreement, but I believe at this time there are no provisions to broker or encrypt (pay per listen) your HD channels. Now certainly if there were financial opportunities that could be used to monetize or recover lost capital by selling access to the HD channels, then perhaps that could be negotiated at license renewal time with Ibquity. This scenario is especially true since the acceptance by consumers doesn't seem to have gone very well.

This can be done now with FMeXtra at a very reasonable price with better coverage and higher fidelity.
 
HowardMBurgers said:
Carmine5 said:
There was a short item in Inside Radio about stations brokering their HD side channels. So it's probably safe to say that in the coming year we'll see more and more stations throw in the towel on programming and selling their side channels and, instead, either broker or do an outright LMA with them.

Whether that results in any more compelling programming or an increase in HD Radio sales, we'll have to wait to see.

Yes I've heard that rumor as well. However I believe that is all that it is, a rumor. It's been a while since looking over an Ibquity license agreement, but I believe at this time there are no provisions to broker or encrypt (pay per listen) your HD channels. Now certainly if there were financial opportunities that could be used to monetize or recover lost capital by selling access to the HD channels, then perhaps that could be negotiated at license renewal time with Ibquity. This scenario is especially true since the acceptance by consumers doesn't seem to have gone very well.

A number of major broadcasters are LMA'ing HD2 and HD3 channels, including some South Asian formats on various Emmis signals and others on some Univision HD channels, to name two. The trend is increasing in momentum, and will sell radios as well as provide some service that is not available on radio today.The model can be for either encrypted services or open channels supported by advertising.

Further, the trades report several already on-air channels that are team based for major sports franchises, with others apparently in the process of being readied.

Between ethnic programming and team-based channels, the headlines talk about these being "killer apps" for HD.
 
DavidEduardo said:
HowardMBurgers said:
Carmine5 said:
There was a short item in Inside Radio about stations brokering their HD side channels. So it's probably safe to say that in the coming year we'll see more and more stations throw in the towel on programming and selling their side channels and, instead, either broker or do an outright LMA with them.

Whether that results in any more compelling programming or an increase in HD Radio sales, we'll have to wait to see.

Yes I've heard that rumor as well. However I believe that is all that it is, a rumor. It's been a while since looking over an Ibquity license agreement, but I believe at this time there are no provisions to broker or encrypt (pay per listen) your HD channels. Now certainly if there were financial opportunities that could be used to monetize or recover lost capital by selling access to the HD channels, then perhaps that could be negotiated at license renewal time with Ibquity. This scenario is especially true since the acceptance by consumers doesn't seem to have gone very well.

A number of major broadcasters are LMA'ing HD2 and HD3 channels, including some South Asian formats on various Emmis signals and others on some Univision HD channels, to name two. The trend is increasing in momentum, and will sell radios as well as provide some service that is not available on radio today.The model can be for either encrypted services or open channels supported by advertising.

Further, the trades report several already on-air channels that are team based for major sports franchises, with others apparently in the process of being readied.

Between ethnic programming and team-based channels, the headlines talk about these being "killer apps" for HD.
Yes, because all the South Asians within 30 miles of Hot 97's transmitter will buy an HD radio to hear Indian music. And then promptly return it when the reception cuts out every time there's a cloud in the sky or a plane flies by.
Just like all the Russians within 30 miles of WNYZ's transmitter listened to 87.7 for Russian music. It did so well that their owners got rid of the Russian format in favor of a dance format.

Ethnic formats aren't the "killer app" for HD radio. If anything, sports would be a killer app if an HD2 station gets exclusive rights (no other HD1 stations, no TV, no streaming) to broadcast a game that's in demand.
 
DavidEduardo said:
A number of major broadcasters are LMA'ing HD2 and HD3 channels, including some South Asian formats on various Emmis signals and others on some Univision HD channels, to name two. The trend is increasing in momentum, and will sell radios as well as provide some service that is not available on radio today.The model can be for either encrypted services or open channels supported by advertising.

Further, the trades report several already on-air channels that are team based for major sports franchises, with others apparently in the process of being readied.

Between ethnic programming and team-based channels, the headlines talk about these being "killer apps" for HD.

Indian music? "Ethnic" programming (clearly non-Spanish ethnic)? Team-based channels (most of which won't have rights to the games)? These are killer apps for HD?

To me, such limited-appeal formats sound more and more like the old FM SCA system and less like a mass-appeal platform. They wouldn't even work on AM, let alone on a standard, analog FM signal. They're far too niche to significantly boost sales or usage of HD radios. That's the wrong path as far as marketing this product goes.
 
There you have it: as I posted earlier, HD-FM will gradually evolve into the "New Digital SCA." Except SCA worked better and cost a lot less. Same scenario: narrowcasting to purpose-specific radios, the only difference being these radios are available - sort of, for now - to the general public.

Team-specific formats? Check out how well that HD Radio "killer app" is working out for the Penguins on the Pittsburgh discussion board.
 
BRNout said:
Indian music? "Ethnic" programming (clearly non-Spanish ethnic)? Team-based channels (most of which won't have rights to the games)? These are killer apps for HD?

To me, such limited-appeal formats sound more and more like the old FM SCA system and less like a mass-appeal platform. They wouldn't even work on AM, let alone on a standard, analog FM signal. They're far too niche to significantly boost sales or usage of HD radios. That's the wrong path as far as marketing this product goes.

This is why we needed satellite radio with thousands of channels, not a few hundred. And why we need streaming. With thousands of channels, you have 500 rock, 500 country, etc. - but also maybe a Indian station or two, along with other niche formats. We didn't get thousands of satellite radio channels - but we still have a chance with streaming - IF we can keep the copyright nazis and their lobbyists out of Congress.
 
BRNout said:
Indian music? "Ethnic" programming (clearly non-Spanish ethnic)? Team-based channels (most of which won't have rights to the games)? These are killer apps for HD?

The team based channels are, in first two mentioned cases, projects of the teams themselves. Play by play does not last long enough to generate ratings that average out for whole month... but team content does (As WIP proved many times over the years). And it is a huge magnet.

Ethnic content, including Spanish Christian Contemporary, Tejano, and other languages according to market, have great potential.

[/quote]To me, such limited-appeal formats sound more and more like the old FM SCA system and less like a mass-appeal platform. They wouldn't even work on AM, let alone on a standard, analog FM signal. They're far too niche to significantly boost sales or usage of HD radios. That's the wrong path as far as marketing this product goes.
[/quote]

Each of these options has a significant core group that, together, could sell many millions of radios. Just in unserved Spanish language formats, such as salsa, Spanish language rock, etc, in the SW, there could be several million alone.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Each of these options has a significant core group that, together, could sell many millions of radios. Just in unserved Spanish language formats, such as salsa, Spanish language rock, etc, in the SW, there could be several million alone.

There you have the weakness of corporate radio. They are operating like corporate television - programming to the least common denominator in the audience, producing a poor quality product at a cheap price. The result - news articles about the end of free over the air television. Can radio be far behind?

I am sure every single poster here could give a list of formats not available in their area. At least not over the air. But streaming has the potential to break monopolies, and niche formats such as the ones you list - while they may not be profitable in one metro area with 30 stations - may be very profitable when audience demand from all metro areas are added together. National products and services may pick up on this and advertise on a station that might happen to be located in one city, realizing that it has a nationwide audience. It is up to radio marketing groups to capitalize on this new reality and say - we may only rate 0.4 in our home town, but we attract a nationwide audience of 20 million people! Advertisers may jump on the trend - suppose they want to advertise to a Hispanic audience that likes one of the formats above? All the rules are changing - and in 5 years we may be talking about an entirely different business model for radio - one that considers over the air only a secondary service, not necessary for the station's survival financially.
 
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