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PEOPLE METERS WILL CHANGE RADIO AGAIN

F

fennessy

To change the subject away from whether or not WOGL or WPEN will change format, I haven't seen anyone post anything or discuss the advent of "people meters", which have been deployed by Arbitron experimentaly in the Philadelphia and Wilmington radio markets. Does anyone have an opinion...I'll start.

I'm all for it...because Radio in our undying attempt to turn audience into revenue, has totally structured what it does ( and what the listener hears) to conform to the methodology of Arbitron. Using Arbitron's own guideline for how it assigns listening credit to radio stations, the radio business has structured it's clock hours to take advantage of " Quarter hour maintainence", all of us running our stopsets at the same time, and saying and doing things in the hope that someone is actually keeping a dairy. The people meter eliminates all this, because instead of being reported listening, it's actual listening electronically tracked and recorded.

The initial tests in the selected markets has shown that the diary method has under-reported cume. Imagine the people who constantly flip KYW on for traffic news and sports...stopping what they're doing and taking the time to write down "KYW". Their Time Spent Listening can't be improved upon...when the new technology comes into being, their share ( a quotient of number of listeners and time spent listening) will go through the roof.

Conversely, the time spent listening of some stations has been over-reported by diary method, and your A/C, Rock, and other long listening-type stations will be affected. Arbitron itself predicts that it will lead radio to a greater share of advertising dollars, because it will show that Radio's reach is greater than what we've claimed up to this point.

Maybe the new technology will help get Radio out of it's rut...we'll re-think where to place the stopsets and how long they should be, and play by new rules that say that a station's ratings can't be hyped by playing to Arbitron's methodology...WE HAVE TO PLAY TO THE AUDIENCE TO WIN, INSTEAD.

I'm all for it...how about you?
 
OK, I'll bite.

I agree. I'm all for the People Meters. More accurate reporting: Why wouldn't you want that?

And I think this will further what radio should be finding out with its recent increased competition: Localism is key.

I agree with Kevin that KYW and stations like it (the news leader in any given market, or the station known for traffic and weather every ten minutes) will go up. And among the major demographics where these stations will see an increase is people 25-44. Young men are listening to sports on KYW at :15 and :45 and not writing it down. Soccer moms are listening to traffic on the 2's and Accuweather and not writing it down.

ACs and other formats with heavy in-office listening (classic hits, classic rock) will go down. Are people really listening for 8-9 hours a day? Probably not.

Stations will a strong sense of community (in Philly, think WDAS and Power 99) will also go up. Spanish language stations that are seeing strong numbers will continue to look strong.

Group owners and CEOs who have spoken out against People Meters have done so because they're afraid of what will happen to the ratings of their cookie cutter soft AC and classic hits stations. Lack of community involved stations in their groups is the problem, not the People Meter.
 
I can hear it now. Immediately after audience measurements move to people-meters : "Leave your radio on all night at work. If our secret burglar breaks into YOUR office and hears WXXX playing, you'll win a zillion dollars."

Bill
 
> I can hear it now. Immediately after audience measurements
> move to people-meters : "Leave your radio on all night at
> work. If our secret burglar breaks into YOUR office and
> hears WXXX playing, you'll win a zillion dollars."
>
> Bill
>
I'm not sure I get the joke. I doubt the burglar will have a people meter, and if there is no one working at the office who will be there with a people meter to measure the listening?
 
I expressed some thoughts on people meters on this board when the first Philly tests started a couple of years ago (is the testing phase ever going to end?) I'm not saying yet if I'm for or against them. But my questions still haven't been answered in anything I've read on the subject:

1) The meters presumably record listening to the exact minute. So, will Arbitron report that raw data so they, or anyone else, can calculate how many people pushed the button at the start of or during a stopset? That could definitely be of interest to advertisers and possibly depress their interest in time buys. (The raw data could also be a useful programming research tool, identifying the exact songs or program elements with high/low tuneout ratios).

2) The people meters require that the wearer keep it with them at all times, then remember to competently dump the data into the phone every night. It seems there is still a lot of potential for skewed numbers. How many women are going to want to wear this thing? And can we expect good compliance from the many people who couldn't seem to stop their VCRs from blinking 12:00? What about people who don't have landlines for the data dump (a growing number of people) or people who listen to sat rad (also a growing number)?

3) Here's evidence of my technical ignorance: If the volume is low or completely down does the people meter still detect the coded identifier? If yes, could large buildings secretly solicit payoffs from stations to "broadcast" silence over strategically placed radios to shoppers, workers, students etc? If not, how loud does it have to be to be measured? How do PMs work for people listening with headphones?

...I actually have more questions but that's good for starters. :)
 
I don't know if anyone is aware, but are radio stations currently using streaming (online) listening statistics in the same way they could use the data from people meters? I guess they can get similar details from streams?

> OK, I'll bite.
>
> I agree. I'm all for the People Meters. More accurate
> reporting: Why wouldn't you want that?
>
> And I think this will further what radio should be finding
> out with its recent increased competition: Localism is key.
>
> I agree with Kevin that KYW and stations like it (the news
> leader in any given market, or the station known for traffic
> and weather every ten minutes) will go up. And among the
> major demographics where these stations will see an increase
> is people 25-44. Young men are listening to sports on KYW at
> :15 and :45 and not writing it down. Soccer moms are
> listening to traffic on the 2's and Accuweather and not
> writing it down.
>
> ACs and other formats with heavy in-office listening
> (classic hits, classic rock) will go down. Are people really
> listening for 8-9 hours a day? Probably not.
>
> Stations will a strong sense of community (in Philly, think
> WDAS and Power 99) will also go up. Spanish language
> stations that are seeing strong numbers will continue to
> look strong.
>
> Group owners and CEOs who have spoken out against People
> Meters have done so because they're afraid of what will
> happen to the ratings of their cookie cutter soft AC and
> classic hits stations. Lack of community involved stations
> in their groups is the problem, not the People Meter.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Owen</P>
 
Ah...leave your People Meter "listening" to the station all night even when you are not!


> > I can hear it now. Immediately after audience
> measurements
> > move to people-meters : "Leave your radio on all night at
>
> > work. If our secret burglar breaks into YOUR office and
> > hears WXXX playing, you'll win a zillion dollars."
> >
> > Bill
> >
> I'm not sure I get the joke. I doubt the burglar will have a
> people meter, and if there is no one working at the office
> who will be there with a people meter to measure the
> listening?
>
 
How do they work

How exactly will the people meters work? Will they detect the local oscillator signal emitted by the radio? Or something different.<P ID="signature">______________
17-year-old radio geek
Location: Princeton Junction, NJ
AIM: KewlDude471</P>
 
Wouldn't work. From what I understand, the People Meter is movement activated so if it sits still for a certain length of time it shuts off.

> Ah...leave your People Meter "listening" to the station all
> night even when you are not!
>
>
> > > I can hear it now. Immediately after audience
> > measurements
> > > move to people-meters : "Leave your radio on all night
> at
> >
> > > work. If our secret burglar breaks into YOUR office and
>
> > > hears WXXX playing, you'll win a zillion dollars."
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > I'm not sure I get the joke. I doubt the burglar will have
> a
> > people meter, and if there is no one working at the office
>
> > who will be there with a people meter to measure the
> > listening?
> >
>
 
Re: How do they work

The radio station emits the PPM detection info as part of its signal.

> How exactly will the people meters work? Will they detect
> the local oscillator signal emitted by the radio? Or
> something different.
>
 
Good stuff Kevin

I suspect the People Meter will have two major effects on programming.

1. It makes it far less important to actually identify the station every chance you get since the constant use of station identifiers is done primarily for diarykeeper recall (much the same reason why politicians flood an area with campaign signs). Since the People Meter automatically identifies the station, I think you'll see some stations structure their music clocks differently with more straight segues, etc.

2. I think the People Meter will reveal to advertisers that listeners punch around the dial during commercial breaks, so it will become counterproductive for radio to run long stopsets. I believe that radio will start running shorter commercial breaks as well as shorter commercials. We'll start to see 60 second spots becoming 30 second spots and 30 second spots becoming 15 second spots. I also think that quick spot reads by jocks during programming or quick sponsorship of service elements like news, weather, traffic, etc. become more valuable to the advertiser since they don't interrupt the flow of programming as much and is less likely to cause listeners to tune out. A quick live read during a sponsored traffic report or a weather forecast could become more valuable than a 30 or 60 second commercial in a stopset. Also, if commercials are seen as a tuneout, it will make stations (and advertising agencies) produce better quality and entertaining commercials to help hold listener attention.


> To change the subject away from whether or not WOGL or WPEN
> will change format, I haven't seen anyone post anything or
> discuss the advent of "people meters", which have been
> deployed by Arbitron experimentaly in the Philadelphia and
> Wilmington radio markets. Does anyone have an opinion...I'll
> start.
>
> I'm all for it...because Radio in our undying attempt to
> turn audience into revenue, has totally structured what it
> does ( and what the listener hears) to conform to the
> methodology of Arbitron. Using Arbitron's own guideline for
> how it assigns listening credit to radio stations, the radio
> business has structured it's clock hours to take advantage
> of " Quarter hour maintainence", all of us running our
> stopsets at the same time, and saying and doing things in
> the hope that someone is actually keeping a dairy. The
> people meter eliminates all this, because instead of being
> reported listening, it's actual listening electronically
> tracked and recorded.
>
> The initial tests in the selected markets has shown that the
> diary method has under-reported cume. Imagine the people who
> constantly flip KYW on for traffic news and
> sports...stopping what they're doing and taking the time to
> write down "KYW". Their Time Spent Listening can't be
> improved upon...when the new technology comes into being,
> their share ( a quotient of number of listeners and time
> spent listening) will go through the roof.
>
> Conversely, the time spent listening of some stations has
> been over-reported by diary method, and your A/C, Rock, and
> other long listening-type stations will be affected.
> Arbitron itself predicts that it will lead radio to a
> greater share of advertising dollars, because it will show
> that Radio's reach is greater than what we've claimed up to
> this point.
>
> Maybe the new technology will help get Radio out of it's
> rut...we'll re-think where to place the stopsets and how
> long they should be, and play by new rules that say that a
> station's ratings can't be hyped by playing to Arbitron's
> methodology...WE HAVE TO PLAY TO THE AUDIENCE TO WIN,
> INSTEAD.
>
> I'm all for it...how about you?
>
 
> Wouldn't work. From what I understand, the People Meter is
> movement activated so if it sits still for a certain length
> of time it shuts off.

Foo. I thought I had a brainstorm.

Wait !! New idea !!! The contest is, if your cell phone answers at 2 AM, and the station is on in the background, you win. You leave your radio on, and your cell phone is set to auto-answer, and is rubber-banded to the people-meter. The station calls all contestants' cell phones every five minutes all night long.

Bill
 
Question about the people meters

Good points by both Kevin and Keith. Your number two item would be a great improvement to FM radio especially. Their spot breaks seem so long, and yes I'm guilty of switching stations just as I do with my TV during their spot breaks.

A question about the people meter, if you are surfing around the dial, and stop and listen to an "out of town" station, say for example, I live in Wilmington and stop and listen to WSCL-FM in Salisbury MD (sometimes it comes in quite well) or WDAC-FM in Lancaster, PA or on the AM dial at night I have listened to 1030 WBZ- Boston, 740 from Toronto Canada, or 750 from Atlanta, GA, etc. Will the people meter register stations that are far away or will it only register local stations say from Philly/Wilmington markets?

> I suspect the People Meter will have two major effects on
> programming.
>
> 1. It makes it far less important to actually identify the
> station every chance you get since the constant use of
> station identifiers is done primarily for diarykeeper recall
> (much the same reason why politicians flood an area with
> campaign signs). Since the People Meter automatically
> identifies the station, I think you'll see some stations
> structure their music clocks differently with more straight
> segues, etc.
>
> 2. I think the People Meter will reveal to advertisers that
> listeners punch around the dial during commercial breaks, so
> it will become counterproductive for radio to run long
> stopsets. I believe that radio will start running shorter
> commercial breaks as well as shorter commercials. We'll
> start to see 60 second spots becoming 30 second spots and 30
> second spots becoming 15 second spots. I also think that
> quick spot reads by jocks during programming or quick
> sponsorship of service elements like news, weather, traffic,
> etc. become more valuable to the advertiser since they don't
> interrupt the flow of programming as much and is less likely
> to cause listeners to tune out. A quick live read during a
> sponsored traffic report or a weather forecast could become
> more valuable than a 30 or 60 second commercial in a
> stopset. Also, if commercials are seen as a tuneout, it
> will make stations (and advertising agencies) produce better
> quality and entertaining commercials to help hold listener
> attention.
>
>
 
Re: Question about the people meters

> A question about the people meter, if you are surfing around
> the dial, and stop and listen to an "out of town" station,
> say for example, I live in Wilmington and stop and listen to
> WSCL-FM in Salisbury MD (sometimes it comes in quite well)
> or WDAC-FM in Lancaster, PA or on the AM dial at night I
> have listened to 1030 WBZ- Boston, 740 from Toronto Canada,
> or 750 from Atlanta, GA, etc. Will the people meter
> register stations that are far away or will it only register
> local stations say from Philly/Wilmington markets?

Might be a good way to identify the need for a certain format which is missing from a particular market. It certainly wouldn't register enough readings outside the market to matter, but it would show that someone isn't being served by his own market and is, therefore, forced to turn elsewhere. I also listen to 740 CHWO from Toronto, as well as 700 WLW Cincinnati (Steve Sommers overnight show, formerly hosted by the Truckin' Bozo), 720 WGN Chicago (Nick Digilio), 680 WCBM Baltimore, and 1160 WOBM Lakewood NJ (conditions permitting).

If one person puts up with the fading and static to hear something he can't get at home, I wonder how many others would be listening if reception came in perfectly right in their own market.
 
Re: Question about the people meters

The encoding might not register with a weak or noisy signal, but - bottom line - out of metro market area (or out of total market area) listing will not be included in the listings for the home market (Lancaster or Salisbury) or for the market in which you are located (since the station is not being rated in that market). Same thing if you are DX'ing Atlanta, Boston or Toronto. The purpose of the ratings is to sell advertisers. An out of market listener is no good to a local advertiser and the number of out of market listeners is too small to matter to national advertisers. Even if distant stations are registered, they don't count.

Currently, Wilmington does not have enough ad revenue to be a continuous measurement market. Low ad revenue (relative to size) means stations won't or can't pay for continuous measurement. So medium and smaller markets may not get people meters (or other new ratings technology) for some time, if at all. The validity and reliability of ratings from non-continuous measurement markets is even more in question than the numbers from continuous measurement markets. One result may be that national and regional media buyers in agencies may shy away from markets in which they don't have good data. This means small and medium market stations become even more dependent on local advertisers and on brokered programming, and even more motivated to cut costs (meaning more use of automation, voice-tracking and 24/7 satellite formats).
>
> A question about the people meter, if you are surfing around
> the dial, and stop and listen to an "out of town" station,
> say for example, I live in Wilmington and stop and listen to
> WSCL-FM in Salisbury MD (sometimes it comes in quite well)
> or WDAC-FM in Lancaster, PA or on the AM dial at night I
> have listened to 1030 WBZ- Boston, 740 from Toronto Canada,
> or 750 from Atlanta, GA, etc. Will the people meter
> register stations that are far away or will it only register
> local stations say from Philly/Wilmington markets?
>
 
Re: Question about the people meters

I am also wondering how it works if you are listening to internet radio. Is the station coding included on the internet stream?

> > A question about the people meter, if you are surfing
> around
> > the dial, and stop and listen to an "out of town" station,
>
> > say for example, I live in Wilmington and stop and listen
> to
> > WSCL-FM in Salisbury MD (sometimes it comes in quite well)
>
> > or WDAC-FM in Lancaster, PA or on the AM dial at night I
> > have listened to 1030 WBZ- Boston, 740 from Toronto
> Canada,
> > or 750 from Atlanta, GA, etc. Will the people meter
> > register stations that are far away or will it only
> register
> > local stations say from Philly/Wilmington markets?
>
> Might be a good way to identify the need for a certain
> format which is missing from a particular market. It
> certainly wouldn't register enough readings outside the
> market to matter, but it would show that someone isn't being
> served by his own market and is, therefore, forced to turn
> elsewhere. I also listen to 740 CHWO from Toronto, as well
> as 700 WLW Cincinnati (Steve Sommers overnight show,
> formerly hosted by the Truckin' Bozo), 720 WGN Chicago (Nick
> Digilio), 680 WCBM Baltimore, and 1160 WOBM Lakewood NJ
> (conditions permitting).
>
> If one person puts up with the fading and static to hear
> something he can't get at home, I wonder how many others
> would be listening if reception came in perfectly right in
> their own market.
>
 
Re: Question about the people meters

> I am also wondering how it works if you are listening to
> internet radio. Is the station coding included on the
> internet stream?
>
Maybe but Arbitron measure online listening separately. The audio servers can tell how many people are getting the stream (of course, that doesn't mean they are actually listening). In any case, on-air ads are not carried on audio streams so online listening can not be included in broadcast ratings. The purpose of audience measurement is to sell ads and when push comes to shove, it doesn't matter how many people are listening to the programming. It's how many people hear the spot the counts.
 
Re: Questions about the people meters

I gather from what you wrote that in your opinion Wilmington won't be getting the people meters because, you said not enough ad revenue is generated here, but apparently Kevin thinks we have them already as he say in his post:

>> I haven't seen anyone post anything or discuss the advent of "people meters", which have been deployed by Arbitron experimentaly in the Philadelphia and Wilmington radio markets.>>

So I'd assume that Arbitron might be considering placing them here to use for their actual ratings when the experimentation is complete, but I guess time will tell.

There have been 12+ numbers that have shown WDAC-Lancaster as well as some Baltimore stations, also I believe I've seen WNAP from Allentown (Gospel Highway 11) in the Wilmington ratings, granted the numbers were less than 1.0, but then again so are a number of other stations that get listed, so I'd interpret that as if enough folks are listening (it seems as low as 0.5) then it would show in our ratings book (at least the 12+ numbers), at least from a neighboring area like Lancaster, Baltimore, Allentown, and maybe even Salisbury or NYC.

I get your point though about national and out of state advertisers not caring if someone in Wilmington DE was listening to their Atlanta station. But I can't but wonder as WBZ Boston's signal is farely consistant at night here, if for some reason enough folks started tuning in to hear Boston Red Sox baseball at night (as they are the parent team of the Wilmington Blue Rocks minor league baseball team) might Aribtron also show them in the 12+ numbers if not in the other catagories they tally ? I realize that a large enough listenership is not likely to develop tuning in to Boston radio to hear the Red Sox, but IF that did happen would it be listed?

Jim's post also asks a good question about internet radio listening and I guess it also this question should apply to Satellite Radio (XM), etc.




> The encoding might not register with a weak or noisy signal,
> but - bottom line - out of metro market area (or out of
> total market area) listing will not be included in the
> listings for the home market (Lancaster or Salisbury) or for
> the market in which you are located (since the station is
> not being rated in that market). Same thing if you are
> DX'ing Atlanta, Boston or Toronto. The purpose of the
> ratings is to sell advertisers. An out of market listener
> is no good to a local advertiser and the number of out of
> market listeners is too small to matter to national
> advertisers. Even if distant stations are registered, they
> don't count.
>
> Currently, Wilmington does not have enough ad revenue to be
> a continuous measurement market. Low ad revenue (relative
> to size) means stations won't or can't pay for continuous
> measurement. So medium and smaller markets may not get
> people meters (or other new ratings technology) for some
> time, if at all. The validity and reliability of ratings
> from non-continuous measurement markets is even more in
> question than the numbers from continuous measurement
> markets. One result may be that national and regional media
> buyers in agencies may shy away from markets in which they
> don't have good data. This means small and medium market
> stations become even more dependent on local advertisers and
> on brokered programming, and even more motivated to cut
> costs (meaning more use of automation, voice-tracking and
> 24/7 satellite formats).
 
Re: Questions about the people meters

It's not unusual for Baltimore stations to be listed in the Wilmington book. There is traditionally heavy listenership to Baltimore radio in Cecil County, which is part of Wilmington metro for some reason (although part of the Baltimore total survey area).

WNAP is in Norristown, PA (suburban Philly) and puts a good signal into northern New Castle County. However, I haven't seen them in the Philly or Wilmington ratings recently. Many religious stations do not subscribe to Arbitron and therefore are not listed. Likewise, WDAC is not listed in the Lancaster book.

Yes, Wilmington is part of one of the people meter tests. Since all of the Wilmington market is included in the Philadelphia total survey area, Wilmington could get people meters (hitch-hiking on Philadelphia). Most non-continuous measurement markets may not be so lucky. Currently Arbitron shows out of market stations all together get about a 2/3 audience share in Wilmington. It will be interesting to see whether people meters show even more Wilmington listeners actually listening to Philly (or Baltimore), or determine that Wilmington radio has been undercounted in the diary panels.

XM Radio and Sirius are able to count subscribers. So far, Arbitron is not measuring listenership to individual satellite radio channels. Since most satellite channels do not carry advertising, there would be little financial incentive to pay for audience measurement.

Despite the Red Sox connection, it's my experience that people in Wilmington tend to be Phillies fans (or Orioles fans). Hypothetically, if enough people listen to an out of market station, the station does get listed. It happens faily regularly in other parts of the country (i.e., the Midwest) in which stations like WJR, WLW and WGN show up in books a couple of markets away from their hometowns (although it does not happen as much as it used to). Practically speaking, evening radio listenership is small. And people who want to follow the Red Soxs (or any team) from out-of-town have better options than DXing (cable, satellite, online).


> I gather from what you wrote that in your opinion Wilmington
> won't be getting the people meters because, you said not
> enough ad revenue is generated here, but apparently Kevin
> thinks we have them already as he say in his post:
>
> So I'd assume that Arbitron might be considering placing
> them here to use for their actual ratings when the
> experimentation is complete, but I guess time will tell.
>
> There have been 12+ numbers that have shown WDAC-Lancaster
> as well as some Baltimore stations, also I believe I've seen
> WNAP from Allentown (Gospel Highway 11) in the Wilmington
> ratings, granted the numbers were less than 1.0, but then
> again so are a number of other stations that get listed, so
> I'd interpret that as if enough folks are listening (it
> seems as low as 0.5) then it would show in our ratings book
> (at least the 12+ numbers), at least from a neighboring area
> like Lancaster, Baltimore, Allentown, and maybe even
> Salisbury or NYC.
>
> I get your point though about national and out of state
> advertisers not caring if someone in Wilmington DE was
> listening to their Atlanta station. But I can't but wonder
> as WBZ Boston's signal is farely consistant at night here,
> if for some reason enough folks started tuning in to hear
> Boston Red Sox baseball at night (as they are the parent
> team of the Wilmington Blue Rocks minor league baseball
> team) might Aribtron also show them in the 12+ numbers if
> not in the other catagories they tally ? I realize that a
> large enough listenership is not likely to develop tuning in
> to Boston radio to hear the Red Sox, but IF that did happen
> would it be listed?
>
> Jim's post also asks a good question about internet radio
> listening and I guess it also this question should apply to
> Satellite Radio (XM), etc.
>
 
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