PEW RESEARCH POLL: HD RADIO "PROSPECTS IN DOUBT"

[Savage]

RadioPhilly, it's not surprising that your market has a lot of HD stations. It's home to clusters owned by CBS, Greater Media, CC and Crawford - all investor-developers in the system. Jerry Lee is a rare example of an individual-entrepreneur "believer" in HD Radio, but that has more to do with ego and his eagerness to be "on the cutting edge" than it does the merits of the system.

In many if not most cases of noncomms running HD, they got their equipment paid for by government grants. That means you, I and everyone else bought that stuff for them. (What a country.) Pubcasters wanted the subchannels (NPR invented the concept) for nuisance subformats they've endlessly been pestered about by donor-listeners, such as jazz and classical, so that's a neat short-term solution for them.

The real question is, how people are listening in digital? I would bet: very few. And dropping.

 

[gosmith123]

I want to hire Bob Struble for advertising sales. I want to sell spots at 3 and 4am, 6am Sundays, EAS tests, pattern changes....oh yes. And I want to sell that time when we're actually off the air for emergency maintenance. I want to sell "naming rights" for the bathroom.

If he can sell HD to Detroit, he can sell ANYTHING.

Back in 2007, Chrysler was smart enough to "investigate" HD Radio, and has been a holdout ever since. I never thought that Struble would be able to dupe GM. It's interesting that Honda and Nissan have also been holdouts. The fact that iBiquity was able to convince VW to go with Artist Experience speaks volumes. All of this should come to a head one day, one way or another. I really feel sorry for the dealerships taking the brunt of the complaints - it's not their fault, but upper-management.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

Most cars do have HD Radio built in now. Philadelphia Audio Show almost all of the basic models did even.

 

[Savage]

Huh?? "Most cars?" Honda doesn't. Chrysler doesn't. They make a little line of cars called "Jeep" you may have heard of. And they are still the leaders in the minivan market. Nissan doesn't. And even with manufacturers who are "aboard" with HD, most make it only part of upcharged - very PRICEY - audio and nav systems. That's hardly "most cars."

I checked with my friend who owns dual local stores, Ford and Chrysler. He reports that he has never had an inquiry about HD Radio from any customer - whether the manufacturer makes it available (Ford) or not (Chrysler.) They do ask about free deals on satellite radio, though.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

I should reiterate.

Every car company at the Philadelphia Auto Show (which has every single car company but Suzuki and another Japanese one) had HD Radio.

Only Hyndai, Mitsibishi, Nissan and Scion had three or four models without it.

I'm assuming these cars at this show are all features built in.

 

[gosmith123]

Most cars do have HD Radio built in now. Philadelphia Audio Show almost all of the basic models did even.

If you are referring to such cars as the Ford Focus, the only way to get standard HD Radio is through the Titanium model, bundled with the expensive, poorly-reviewed MyFordTouch/Sync systems. HD Radio will only add to the problems Ford is facing with these systems. BMW was offering optional HD Radio, back in 2005 - 2007, but it was priced from $350 - $500. Ford does not even offer a stand-alone HD Radio option. Come on, iBiquity, let's see more of these vehicles with optional/standard stand-alone HD radios, because we want to see more TSBs like BMW and Volvo. Perhaps, iBiquity is trying to hide the true costs of installing HD radios from the lawyers.

 

[gosmith123]

I should reiterate.

Every car company at the Philadelphia Auto Show (which has every single car company but Suzuki and another Japanese one) had HD Radio.

Only Hyndai, Mitsibishi, Nissan and Scion had three or four models without it.

I'm assuming these cars at this show are all features built in.

So, you saw Chysler, Nissan, and Honda models with HD Radio, and all other GMs aside from the Acadia? Well Bob, I guess it's time for your IPO!

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

It must be! I don't remember a single car at that show without HD Radio Compatibility included. I'm assuming many of those weren't meant to include such features.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

It must be! I don't remember a single car at that show without HD Radio Compatibility included. I'm assuming many of those weren't meant to include such features.

Personally - if the in-car audio system had HD in addition to satellite, streaming, i___ dock etc. I'd probably use the HD occasionally for a couple of formats not available on analog. But more than likely I'd just stay parked on satellite because I've become used to having the formats I want there. It would hardly be worth the band change to broadcast unless it was transparent as a part of the presets.

An HD radio without satellite and / or streaming / i___ dock would not be something I would want as an option. And I shouldn't have to choose. Give me all of them.

Another thing I wouldn't want is a car radio with poor AM capability, because some of the less popular formats are migrating to AM. A lot of newer car systems have downgraded AM. I hang onto my old aftermarket car radios jealously so I can continue to get good AM reception.

For long trips, I let the passengers watch DVD's on the car system anyway. There isn't much to DX any more on the highway, and no need to DX with satellite.

 

[tomservo]

I hate to half-arsed back up RadioPhillyFan but I'm pretty sure I saw advertising for the upcoming Dodge Dart that included HD and Pandora on the radio.

Maybe Chrysler is getting on the bandwagon after all?

Honda's lack of HD doesn't surprise me. They've never offered anything interesting with their radios, not even RDS or AM stereo that I'm aware of. I think Toyota hopped on AM stereo in the 80s and Nissan began placing RDS-capable receivers in the late 90s or early 2000s but Honda has remained in 1989 steadfastly. But then again their car lineup as a whole reflects their lack of recent ingenuity and modernity. They're fat, bloated, basic transportation for the no frills crowd. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

VW has always targeted younger, more affluent demographics so it doesn't surprise me they were sold on HD and the terrible Artist Experience feature. Their service managers are used to disgruntled customers thanks to their less than average reliability, so one more party trick that doesn't work is inconsequential. And I say that as a happy VW owner, too.

 

[Chuck]

I have a 2012 Buick LaCrossse with the high end nav package and every bell and whistle offered. Sorry, there is no HD radio....

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I think Toyota hopped on AM stereo in the 80s.

Those Toyota AM stereo radios were great radios - I had one in a Toyota and it was amazing. When I used it in Houston, I often made the trek to Dallas while 570 was playing top-40 music in AM stereo. The AM stereo would be perfect until almost Conroe, when KLVI 560 would begin putting 10 kHz hetereodyne on 570. I moved to Jackson, MI for a time and was getting WLS 890 AM stereo during the day absolutely clear. This was when they played music and mattered. I also had perfect AM stereo on WKRC Cincinnati, which was almost 300 miles.

 

[spunker88]

Honda's lack of HD doesn't surprise me. They've never offered anything interesting with their radios, not even RDS or AM stereo that I'm aware of. I think Toyota hopped on AM stereo in the 80s and Nissan began placing RDS-capable receivers in the late 90s or early 2000s but Honda has remained in 1989 steadfastly. But then again their car lineup as a whole reflects their lack of recent ingenuity and modernity. They're fat, bloated, basic transportation for the no frills crowd. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

They don't use RDS in Japan so most Japanese car makers don't put RDS in their base model radios. AM stereo on the other hand was used in Japan. This is true of late model Nissan and Toyota cars as well. Even though the FM bands are different, chances are many Japanese auto makers use the same radios internals in both the Japanese and North American versions of their cars. Most new FM chips I see tune 64-108mhz in the specs. Then through software the language and frequency restrictions can be programmed in.

But for Honda they are known for building reliable engines so they probably don't need to add extra electronic features if their cars are already selling fine.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

2012 top-end Chrysler Radio gives you a horrible-sounding Sirius radio (XM would sound so much better) - very metallic 20KB dial-up internet audio sounds like 'wow & flutter' from Sirius; flat crappy AM section without CQUAM or HD and nasty AM bandwidth; FM section which has nice narrow bandwidth and good selectivity but a 'too small' RDS display (needs just one more digit!) and no HD anywhere. CD's and MP3 discs take forever to load, like you're dumping in a BluRay or something. One of the few radios on the planet still with an "ST" indicator (a rare breed) and "info" to indicate RDS "info available". AUX in. There is NO mute button. Actually uses a real rod antenna, so DX-able better than the midget amplified antennae on 3/4 of all cars today.

I'll take a 1995 Chrysler Radio with a 5 band EQ, automatic bandwidth AM Stereo to about +/- 7.5KHz, a nice 'full' analog FM stereo sound, very easy to set 'joystick' speaker fader/balance control; nice "STEREO" indicator, a decent all the way around radio. Package that 1995 rig with some new DSP action, AM noise blankers, CQUAM, RDS display, bandwidth selection, XM, Aux in, and that would be a killer radio. HD optional of course. It would be nice if the indash SatRadios had the same features like "song select" to 'listen for your favorite' and beep to notify you, as well as a 45 minute (TiVo-type) audio buffer so you could pause PB while ordering your Big Mac.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

After a bit of poking around, I found out why all models had HD Radio there.

It was just showing what the car could offer, most were not basic car radios.

But, BMW's models it does come standard in. There is some hope, but only a glimmer.

HD Radio needs a redesign. It should be less like it's part of FM and more of it's own band (in terms of HD-2's and HD-3's only, HD-1 remains to appear as 102.9 FM). Doing so would encourage companies to launch formats that aren't as much a copy and more of it's own thing on it. Kinda make it a bit more like XM. Only simple radio programming changes.

 

[KB1OKL]

HD radio will soon be known as the Dodo of 2006.

 

[Chuck]

Even some once enthusiastic pub-casters are having second thoughts. Having two or three formats that draw largely from the same audience has done nothing but fragment their audience. That seems to translate to fewer donors, or at minimum, a lot more work to keep the same number of donors. Of course running multiple formats costs more than doing just one, so there is a need for increased listeners and donors, not less.

Add to this the fact that radios are few and far between, and it isn't looking good.

 

[TheBigA]

Even some once enthusiastic pub-casters are having second thoughts.

Really? Like who? Certainly not the view of NPR. They are providing lots of free content for their affiliates to put on their HD channels. And usually, they place very different formats aiming at different audiences on those channels, like bluegrass or folks music, while keeping news or classical on the main channel. So it doesn't cost a whole lot more, and it doesn't draw on the same audience. Just last month, the new owner of WBFO was providing disenfranchised jazz audiences a deal for HD radios, as reported right here on this message board.

This is not to say that any of this makes any difference in the long term future of HD, because it's all small potatoes anyway. Just that I don't see the "second thoughts" that you're talking about. Nor do I see any concern about fragmenting their audience.

 

[Chuck]

You need to read the pubtech digest.

 

[TheBigA]

You need to read the pubtech digest.

That didn't really answer the question, did it?

People in public radio aren't concerned about fragmenting their audience. In fact, pubcasters are buying more stations, so clearly fragmentation isn't a concern. They're looking for multiple platforms because they have an overabundance of content. If people don't buy HD radios, then they'll just expand their online presence.

But as I said, a few public radio stations are not going to make a difference in the success or failure of HD Radio. That has to come from radio sales, and obviously that's not going to happen. But the use of HD by public radio stations has proven that the lack of consumer radio sales is not because of the lack of quality and unduplicated programming. Public stations are giving the receivers away, and it still hasn't made a difference.