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rbrucecarter5
Guest
Ah that old "Jesus reference" argument. I thought I took care of that one ten years ago: http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/hymns.htm
Phil Keaggy is a really good guitarist. I was really glad when he played "Love Divine" - at long last a song that highlighted his talent and was playable on a Christian rock station.
Phil Keaggy is a really good guitarist. I was really glad when he played "Love Divine" - at long last a song that highlighted his talent and was playable on a Christian rock station.
GaryTheThompson said:
Thanks for posting that one Gary.
rbrucecarter5 said:
Have you ever seen Keaggy perform live and in person Bruce?
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DougD
Guest
QUOTE FROM ARTICLE:
Keaggy: There are new generations of Beatles' fans yet music from the '70s in Christian music is forgotten. They are only thinking about the present and not the treasures of the past or the futures of their artists—which is why the indie explosion is best thing that ever happened to Christian music. I just wish the hearts, pocketbook and bank accounts could have real righteous actions to go along with the explosion of CCM. I don't know, I might get myself in trouble! (laughs)
Boy, is he right about that! I'd add THE ENTIRE DECADE OF THE 80s to the 70s he mentioned. Rarely are any songs from that period, even the early 90s, heard anymore. Even the biggies like RISE AGAIN and PRIORITY from THE IMPERIALS.
CCM and the radio stations playing the commercialized bland music have forgotten their roots and could care less about anything before the mid- to late 90s.
There's opportunity in the "oldies" market. The music is much more substantive and those listening, like those just disovering the BEATLES, ELVIS and THE BEACH BOYS 40-50 years later would discover and purchase some of this roots CCM.
Too bad the industry has its blinders on.
Keaggy: There are new generations of Beatles' fans yet music from the '70s in Christian music is forgotten. They are only thinking about the present and not the treasures of the past or the futures of their artists—which is why the indie explosion is best thing that ever happened to Christian music. I just wish the hearts, pocketbook and bank accounts could have real righteous actions to go along with the explosion of CCM. I don't know, I might get myself in trouble! (laughs)
Boy, is he right about that! I'd add THE ENTIRE DECADE OF THE 80s to the 70s he mentioned. Rarely are any songs from that period, even the early 90s, heard anymore. Even the biggies like RISE AGAIN and PRIORITY from THE IMPERIALS.
CCM and the radio stations playing the commercialized bland music have forgotten their roots and could care less about anything before the mid- to late 90s.
There's opportunity in the "oldies" market. The music is much more substantive and those listening, like those just disovering the BEATLES, ELVIS and THE BEACH BOYS 40-50 years later would discover and purchase some of this roots CCM.
Too bad the industry has its blinders on.
Great post on Mr. Phil Keaggy. That man is awesome. I have some of his CD's. I find his statements to be right on target. I still listen to the classic songs and find nothing wrong with them. Been hearing some of the Classic CCM songs, on Sirius Satellite's CCM station, for the past few months now. They have been playing the Imperials, Keith Green, Dallas Holm, Bob Bennett, Twila Paris, David Meece, Mr. Rich Mullins and DeGarmo and Key (Three of My All Time Favorites), Wayne Watson, Some of Michael W. Smith's earlier songs and Randy Stonehill.
I'm impressed with the the way Sirius' CCM Channel, is now mixing in these timeless classics with the currents. (Something Music Choice did very well and I really liked) Hope they'll keep on doing it, since I like to hear the classics. Most of these classic songs do have one advantage over the new stuff, that advantage is the message. Most of the classic songs I have heard and/or have in my library, have meat to their message. That's something that turns me on, to the classic songs.
Now if Sirius would play Steve Camp, Derek Webb, Sandra McCracken and Michael Card, that would really make my day.
R.D.P. <><
I'm impressed with the the way Sirius' CCM Channel, is now mixing in these timeless classics with the currents. (Something Music Choice did very well and I really liked) Hope they'll keep on doing it, since I like to hear the classics. Most of these classic songs do have one advantage over the new stuff, that advantage is the message. Most of the classic songs I have heard and/or have in my library, have meat to their message. That's something that turns me on, to the classic songs.
Now if Sirius would play Steve Camp, Derek Webb, Sandra McCracken and Michael Card, that would really make my day.
R.D.P. <><
I appreciate Phil's perspective and opinion, but I disagree with most of his comments.
I can agree that we shouldn't "pigeonhole" or "label" ourselves Christian. However, I think his other opinions are tainted by ONLY his experiences. I don't think he's able to have an honest view at both sides of the industry.
I think Phil's comments are less of a "challenge to our industry" and more of a division.
I can agree that we shouldn't "pigeonhole" or "label" ourselves Christian. However, I think his other opinions are tainted by ONLY his experiences. I don't think he's able to have an honest view at both sides of the industry.
I think Phil's comments are less of a "challenge to our industry" and more of a division.
Do many of you remember Joe English from the '80s? Before becoming a Christian, Joe was the drummer for Paul McCartney & Wings during the "Band On The Run" days. I'll always remember an interview with Joe English because I totally agreed with him then, and have the same belief now. Joe said he didn't want to do songs where the lyrics were so watered down that the listener wouldn't be able to tell if Joe were singing about Jesus, or a girlfriend, or his dog, or his car, etc.
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GaryTheThompson
Guest
ToddStach said:
I understand what you're saying here. And to a degree, I think you have a point in that; the majority of the Nashville CCM industry operates according to a one certain model. And in that model, we're unified. In other words, the industry is a certain way. So let's work within that model, try to be positive and not gripe about it. Sure it's not perfect, but it works ok. So let's just move forward and do the best we can.
Am I correct that this is your point of view? If so, I agree that no amount of sitting on the outside complaining about it will change it.
But I do understand what Phil is saying. And I do agree that we in the CCM industry should be open to ideas from the outside. And we should be open to the possibility that some beneficial change could take place by us listening and considering that there could be some value in what those such as Keaggy are observing.
Teachability and openness to varying ideas are keys to improvement. And I think that even though we have a pretty well-working model, there is a possibility that some changes need to occur. I'm not sure exactly what those might be. But it is truth that when God has his hand in something, it changes as it is perfected.
Just some thoughts.
MightyFrenchman said:
Good point....But as Lewis wrote his style, he realized that society was becoming so 'anti-Jesus' that society "Couldn't see Jesus Christ because of utterence of His name"(The old "Forest for the Trees thing!)....My point... Lost people have such a 'foam' and sinful anger, that the mere mention automatically sends them running.... It's the greatest name ever uttered, but the "JPM" factor only sings to the majority of the Choir in Christendom and not all are ready to be 'reaped'....Most are just ready for the 'seed' and many are in need of 'watering'....Yet, the "Fields are ripe for harvest"... We need every tool...We don't have to water down our direction and message with a set "JPM" factor, yet in today's CCM, you are hearing the continuation of a 'revival' of contemporary Praise songs that send us back to the early "Jesus People" movement in the late 60's and early 70's....Ecl.3 is a great chapter to relate this to....We need it all... I program a "Theocratic" format in southern Indiana on a LPFM and Internet outlet...90% of our 15 to 30's never have set foot in a traditional Church, but seem to get the vibe there is more out there... Out of those hundreds that attend our Coffee House Venue, many have started their search through our Bible Studies, where we make no bones who Chirst is.... The best thing I ever thought of in my CCM experience was something The Holy Spirit put on my heart way back in 1987 at the first Way-Fm in Fort Myers, Florida.....This CCM/Radio stuff is: 1...A Spiritual Vitamin to a believer and 2...A cold cup of water to the younger generation dying in the culture's desert.....We are a para-Ministry to the greater call of The Body (Church)...We shouldn't play Church or make our efforts in place of it.....We are to be an added part and outreach of it....Nothing more, or nothing less.... Now gang...Let us go forth and throw mega-tons of Spiritual seed wherever we go......I like the Greek text best(Matthew)....It translates not "Go Forth" (as we think means to take time out from life to do some Mission and Evangelism), but "As You Go"....That means, everyday in everything we do...Make it an automatic in every ounce of our lives...... I can 'dig it', can you??? One of my mentors is a "Independent-King James Only-No Drums in the Sanctuary" Pastor...But we dig hangin' out and seeing how we have far more in common than those convictions in our walk that we differ on...Praying that we seek God's direction on what we should do in our own walk.... I serve as his Chief Engineer of his AM station... "Skipper T. Thomas" Way-Fm from 1987 to 1995 and Radio-U from 1995 to 1998....Good to see my 'ol chums' on this...Brian and Todd and others.....
skippertthomas said:
What is the "JPM" factor?
Jane-Ayne said:
You're married to George Jetson?
"JPM" (Jesus Per Minute) is a reference to how some Christians feel a song has to mention the name of Jesus a certain number of times to be worthwhile (anything less than the standard might as well be penned by Satan personally).
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
William_Yeager said:
I repeat my link:
http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/hymns.htm
I guess all of those hymns don't meet the JPM standard. And were penned by satan and not the composers I show.
When I read things like the JPM standard and "it has to mention Jesus" - sometimes I am ASHAMED of the ignorance of my fellow believers. This sort of thing is beneath contempt, or at the very least shows a real low intellectual quotient on the part of the person spouting it out.
I guess all of those hymns don't meet the JPM standard. And were penned by satan and not the composers I show.
When I read things like the JPM standard and "it has to mention Jesus" ......
[/quote]
Where did you read the JPM standard? I'd like to read it, too.
When I read things like the JPM standard and "it has to mention Jesus" ......
[/quote]
Where did you read the JPM standard? I'd like to read it, too.
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rbrucecarter5
Guest
MightyFrenchman said:
Exactly my point. There is no standard in the Bible - the only place it would matter. Some people, though, think they know what listeners need - "Now listeners, we are starting to have too much fun, we have to throw in songs that say Jesus and slow down the tempo - time to take your spiritual medicine. Here is some PRAISE AND WORSHIP music you ought to get excited about." (Everybody under 50 pushes pushbuttons in cars back to secular stations).
What is the "JPM" factor?
[/quote]
In reference to "RPM's" on race cars, many early CCM stations had in place "JPM's" .... Songs must contain a certain amount of lyrical content with the word "Jesus" or direct reference to Him, in order to be aired... "How many times is 'Jesus' mention per minute of the tune???" Sounds silly, doesn't it????
[/quote]
In reference to "RPM's" on race cars, many early CCM stations had in place "JPM's" .... Songs must contain a certain amount of lyrical content with the word "Jesus" or direct reference to Him, in order to be aired... "How many times is 'Jesus' mention per minute of the tune???" Sounds silly, doesn't it????
MightyFrenchman said:
I remember Joe English-had some of his music. Where is he now? Anyone know? Classic Christian music was produced badly, a lot of it sounded muffled and just plain "bad". The industry should spend time remixing the songs as secular radio has done with their oldie music.
i invested in something about ten years ago for 5.00..its called a turntable! all the ccm from years past can be gotten on vinyl via ebay and thrift stores. so it really doesnt matter to me what the industry is doing now. if i want jesus music i will listen to jesus music. if i want ac i will turn on the radio. my point..just because the music is not on cd and available at some bookstore doesnt mean its not available at all...plus there are jesus music stations on live 365. yea the industry has changed..but so what?? 
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