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Philly January Ratings Are In
- Thread starter d21ofnj
- Start date
Stations with looser formats seem to have TSL issues: WISX, WBEN and WYSP. These stations have much lower AQH than do tighter-formatted stations with similar cumes like WMMR, WMGK and WRFF, lower cumes like WDAS and WXTU.
My guess: trainwreck segues are causing lots of tune out.
Also, big post-Christmas gains for WXTU and WOGL. And a big loss of cume for WYSP now that football season is open.
My guess: trainwreck segues are causing lots of tune out.
Also, big post-Christmas gains for WXTU and WOGL. And a big loss of cume for WYSP now that football season is open.
any word on the morning numbers?
Help me win a contest. I need to know the daily in-tab for Women 35-44 in January.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
12+ numbers are worth....what, in the grand scheme of things? 
O
oasisrulz
Guest
Always great to see MMR and RFF doing good and gaining...for all who think Rock is dead....
In terms of talk radio in Philly the rankings are (based on those 12+ numbers) WIP, WHYY-FM, WPHT, WPEN, and last WNTP. I would think that WHYY-FM is happy about their ratings as they are ranked #2 for talk and news. KYW is #1 for news as WIP is #1 for talk.
imhomerjay said:12+ numbers are worth....what, in the grand scheme of things?
The actual numbers are not worth very much, but I'd bet that a move from one month to the next in 12+ signifies a move in the same direction and of the same magnitude in the demos that matter. Actual demo numbers would be better, but we don't have those.
I
imhomerjay
Guest
oasisrulz said:
Or that a certain midday personality should be shipped out to pasture?
Just having some fun.Its relative, my guess is WHYY-FM's numbers TSL probably drop during their various begathons. However, I do see your point, but many on this board continue to say that so called Lib talk isn't viable, yet WHYY-FM is doing fine. Could a commercial radio station be successful with Lib talk in Philly? Maybe, but would have a better chance if the NPR programming weren't available here.
However, there might be another aspect of this to consider. Generally liberals are better educated, better read, have a broader world view, etc, etc, than conservatives. This difference might also affect the style of talk show preferred. My Guess is that the lesser educated listener may tend to prefer the more raucous angry hosts that tend to be conservative talk radio (Rush/Beck/Hannity/Savage). The more introspective type hosts / college lecture teaching, etc, (think NPR) may generally appeal to the better educated liberal listener. So a liberal version of Rush or Hannity might not be able to pull in enough liberal listeners due to that style of talk being unpleasant to that demo's ears and approach rather than their being no interest in lib talk.
Salem's conservative talkers are more NPR like in their style than Rush/Hannity, etc, and their poor ratings would seem to show that generally conservatives prefer the lam-bast of Rush/Hannity, etc.
However, there might be another aspect of this to consider. Generally liberals are better educated, better read, have a broader world view, etc, etc, than conservatives. This difference might also affect the style of talk show preferred. My Guess is that the lesser educated listener may tend to prefer the more raucous angry hosts that tend to be conservative talk radio (Rush/Beck/Hannity/Savage). The more introspective type hosts / college lecture teaching, etc, (think NPR) may generally appeal to the better educated liberal listener. So a liberal version of Rush or Hannity might not be able to pull in enough liberal listeners due to that style of talk being unpleasant to that demo's ears and approach rather than their being no interest in lib talk.
Salem's conservative talkers are more NPR like in their style than Rush/Hannity, etc, and their poor ratings would seem to show that generally conservatives prefer the lam-bast of Rush/Hannity, etc.
J
jaypea
Guest
It might surprise you to know that public stations (like 'HYY, 'RTI, 'XPN, etc) really don't care much about ratings. I mean, it's nice to know how you're doing relative to the market in general. And maybe we'll use them to consider some schedule adjustments to stabilize or gain more "core." But it's not like we're out there selling the numbers. Public stations are more concerned with loyalty and affinity on the part of listeners. We're looking to make sure we're serving our core audiences properly, and that the core either stays stable or grows. We really don't care how old our listeners are, just how loyal they are, and whether, and how much they value our service. And the numbers are somewhat meaningless because, as someone said, our fund drives don't do us any favors (except bring in a nice chunk of operating income).
As for the liberal vs conservative thing, NPR, and public talk radio in general is actually quite balanced. People have two main misconceptions about public talk radio. We're either too (pick a side), or we're all gay.
The "gay" thing comes from the actual sound of our talk stations--FM, less processed, very midrangy. Sort of makes us all sound like we're lisping. Craig Ferguson recently had a funny, joking exchange with NPR's Peter Sagal that may have been more revealing than anyone may have thought. Look it up on YouTube if you get a chance (it was on Craig's CBS-TV show).
As for the left/right situation: besides the independent research that says we're pretty much balanced, for every complaint we get locally that we're biased to one side or one issue, there's a complaint that says we're on the opposite side. And left/right isn't the worst of it. You should see what we get when the Top-'o-the Hour NPR Newcasts report on the Israeli/Palestinian troubles. Even the music stations that run the NPR 'casts get hit with that one. Sheesh, you'd think our listeners, who it's true are more affluent, better educated, better read, with a broader worldview, would put their big brains in gear before putting their mouths and pens to the gas pedal! It's almost like they're reacting to Rush or Stern or someone.
In any case, this is probably too way off for the subject at hand, but I thought it might be nice to get it all out there.
As for the liberal vs conservative thing, NPR, and public talk radio in general is actually quite balanced. People have two main misconceptions about public talk radio. We're either too (pick a side), or we're all gay.
The "gay" thing comes from the actual sound of our talk stations--FM, less processed, very midrangy. Sort of makes us all sound like we're lisping. Craig Ferguson recently had a funny, joking exchange with NPR's Peter Sagal that may have been more revealing than anyone may have thought. Look it up on YouTube if you get a chance (it was on Craig's CBS-TV show).
As for the left/right situation: besides the independent research that says we're pretty much balanced, for every complaint we get locally that we're biased to one side or one issue, there's a complaint that says we're on the opposite side. And left/right isn't the worst of it. You should see what we get when the Top-'o-the Hour NPR Newcasts report on the Israeli/Palestinian troubles. Even the music stations that run the NPR 'casts get hit with that one. Sheesh, you'd think our listeners, who it's true are more affluent, better educated, better read, with a broader worldview, would put their big brains in gear before putting their mouths and pens to the gas pedal! It's almost like they're reacting to Rush or Stern or someone.
In any case, this is probably too way off for the subject at hand, but I thought it might be nice to get it all out there.
Thanks for the insight in how NPR stations look at their ratings, listeners, and even noting that the listener's age isn't an issue (unlike commercial stations who don't care if anyone over the age of 49 even listens to their respective station).
I agree that NPR's coverage in news reporting is pretty well balanced just as Jim Leher's News Hour on PBS also seems to be. I remember during the Iraq War during the Bush years, being surprised that NPR's coverage on All Things Considered and Morning Edition included both liberal and conservative points of view.
It simply amazes me that commercial radio can't make a living successfully airing a similar quality, style, and type of programming that NPR and their affiliates typically air (both music formats - WRTI, WXPN, and news/informational formats like WHYY-FM). Even small independent non-comms like WVUD Univ of Del. Newark, with their varied musical formats that pull in enough listeners so they too are successful both in having plenty of loyal listeners and faithful donors.
The thing that seems so odd is there are enough folks who want that NPR type programming that they're willing to help pay for it with their own money, and yet advertisers don't want those listeners. That's sort of a paradox. That's why NPR, their affiliates, and independent non-comms like WVUD are so successful. They are the radio stations for all those listeners that commercial radio discarded.
I agree that NPR's coverage in news reporting is pretty well balanced just as Jim Leher's News Hour on PBS also seems to be. I remember during the Iraq War during the Bush years, being surprised that NPR's coverage on All Things Considered and Morning Edition included both liberal and conservative points of view.
It simply amazes me that commercial radio can't make a living successfully airing a similar quality, style, and type of programming that NPR and their affiliates typically air (both music formats - WRTI, WXPN, and news/informational formats like WHYY-FM). Even small independent non-comms like WVUD Univ of Del. Newark, with their varied musical formats that pull in enough listeners so they too are successful both in having plenty of loyal listeners and faithful donors.
The thing that seems so odd is there are enough folks who want that NPR type programming that they're willing to help pay for it with their own money, and yet advertisers don't want those listeners. That's sort of a paradox. That's why NPR, their affiliates, and independent non-comms like WVUD are so successful. They are the radio stations for all those listeners that commercial radio discarded.
A
Actually_Employed
Guest
Sometimes the sheer brilliance posted on these boards is astounding. First, pay attention - these are 6+ numbers - not 12+. It's a PPM world and the currency is 6+ - even more valuable, huh? How nice to know that Public Broadcasters don't care about ratings - hey without commercials anybody can get ratings. Nicer to know that Public Broadcasters see themselves as balanced. What's worse is I believe they do.
I totally disagree that without commercials anyone can get great ratings. The vast majority of radio listeners are not listening to non-comms or NPR stations, they are listening to commercial radio. I agree that not having endless commercials back to back makes the listening experience far more enjoyable, but I'm not going to listen to a station that isn't airing what I'm interested in hearing, be they NPR, other non-comms, or a commercial station. I think you missed the point. My point was that NPR and like stations appeal to those of us that commercial radio abandoned. So yes, we radio refugees have found a radio haven within the non-comm NPR radio world. We're making those stations successful by tuning in and by our donations. These stations and NPR were smart enough to target the listeners cast aside by the commercial radio world. So no need for "sour grapes" from the commercial radio gang as you dumped us and we found a great substitute for your stations.
So how many kids get to carry around a PPM? My guess is not many if any. Even if they do, kids today have far more spending money than I did at that age. Many of today's parents give their kids big time allowances (we're talking way more than candy and comic book money - of course when I was that age a full sized candy bar cost 5 cents and a comic book 10 cents). Many parents today allow their 6 -12 year olds to buy whatever they want or to tell their parents what to buy ( I've watched it numerous times in stores), so it isn't surprising that advertisers target 6-12 year olds. They're easily persuaded. Madison Avenue has found ways to now make millions of dollars from little kids. An old book that you might find of interest (assuming you can still find it somewhere is) Vance Packard's circa 1955 best seller "The Hidden Persuaders".
Sure Public Broadcasters see themselves as balanced, just like Fox News, Rush, Randi Rhodes, MSNBC, CBS, Washington Post, Washington Times, etc, all see themselves as being balanced. Being balanced is in the eye of the beholder.
So how many kids get to carry around a PPM? My guess is not many if any. Even if they do, kids today have far more spending money than I did at that age. Many of today's parents give their kids big time allowances (we're talking way more than candy and comic book money - of course when I was that age a full sized candy bar cost 5 cents and a comic book 10 cents). Many parents today allow their 6 -12 year olds to buy whatever they want or to tell their parents what to buy ( I've watched it numerous times in stores), so it isn't surprising that advertisers target 6-12 year olds. They're easily persuaded. Madison Avenue has found ways to now make millions of dollars from little kids. An old book that you might find of interest (assuming you can still find it somewhere is) Vance Packard's circa 1955 best seller "The Hidden Persuaders".
Sure Public Broadcasters see themselves as balanced, just like Fox News, Rush, Randi Rhodes, MSNBC, CBS, Washington Post, Washington Times, etc, all see themselves as being balanced. Being balanced is in the eye of the beholder.
MikefromDelaware said:
In the first Philly release of PPM's, look at the 6+ numbers for WOGL, compare those numbers with the 12+ numbers for WOGL and you will see WOGL drop listenership in persons 12+...
This kind of ratings snafu has been happening since PPM's inception.
If Grandpa is dropping the kids off at school, gameroom, etc, and said child has PPM, the tone from Pop-pops' radio is recorded and registered. Programmers and sales departments care only for the target demos and can care less for the 6+, 12+ results..unless of course you're the Disney channel.
I
InSearchOfGear
Guest
aindik said:
It's LOSER. one "o".
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