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Phoenix Market Shares

P

pberger

Guest
In most markets, the top station is around 9 or higher. In Phoenix, the top station, seldom goes over 6. Any theories on why nobody in Phoenix can get a share higher than 6.0? Could it be because we have too many stations? I'm wondering if it is due to too much format flipping.
 
pberger said:
In most markets, the top station is around 9 or higher. In Phoenix, the top station, seldom goes over 6. Any theories on why nobody in Phoenix can get a share higher than 6.0? Could it be because we have too many stations? I'm wondering if it is due to too much format flipping.
Click to expand...

In most major markets, the top shares are in the 5 to 6 range. LA is in the 5's, SF is in that range, too. Dallas and Houston are similar, as is Chicago.

In fact, the only top 20 markets with stations with 12+ shares are Atlanta (WVEE and WSB), Tampa (WDUV), Minneapolis (WCCO, KEEY and KQRS) St Louis (KMOX), Boston (WJMN, WXKS, WMJX, WBZ) and Detroit (WMXD).

All other markets have a 6 share max... even Detroit is eliminated if you go to a 6.1.

What you have in several of these markets is a lot of nearby markets that split the good allocations. In the case of Phoenix and many Western markets, there is little for many miles around to "absorb" the channels, so the big cities get over-radioed. Places like Boise, Salt Lake, Albuquerque, Denver, Tucson have more stations and more viable stations to fragment the shares.

It's important to look at the non-listed non-commercial shares, too since they "take numbers" from the 100 total shares, but are not listed in the 12+ data given to the press.
 
Fifteen years ago (or so) it was not uncommon for a station such as KNIX to get a 12 share or better. They owned the market in many ways. Other stations occasionally flirted with that kind of rareified air, too. KOY in the 1970s owned the market with double-digit shares.

But I think KNIX was the last station to pull this off with any regularity. Part of it was because they were the only Country formatted station in town for a while. KJJJ 910 became KFYI in 1986. 92.3 tried country for a while, but they too, abandoned it in 1986, leaving KNIX and KNIX-AM as the only Country game in town.

Then around 1990 or so, Shamrock (owned by Roy Disney) picked up a sleepy preacher tape station licensed to Chandler and turned KMLE into Camel Country 108. Radio people were skpetical and thought Buck Owens would use his considerable muscle to destroy this competition. But as we all know, both stations have co-existed ever since. The fallout was that while both stations could get decent ratings and make good money, neither was going to dominate. Add in all the rimshot signals, a few new licenses, a proliferation of Spanish language stations, sports talk (an unknown format except as a 7-10 PM kind of thing until about 1990), and Phoenix just has too darn many signals for any one of them to stand out and grab double-digits.

Of course, since Phoenix has a lot more people than 15 years ago, a 6 share can go a long way toward healthy billings.
 
Add to the mix XM, Sirius, I-Pods, and web listening, and a 6 share sounds pretty spectacular! The pie will only be carved in smaller sections as time goes on. Any of the old farts remember Hooper & Pulse ratings when Top 40 stations had ratings in the stratosphere?
 
I remember when KNIX had a 22 share in 1980. I was fortunate to be apart of the airstaff then. Most every daypart was pulling double digits. I think my shift did a 14 share one-time. In the early to mid-80's KJJJ and KJJJ-FM were competitors. Then KC-92, but KNIX dominated. It was one of the most professionally run stations in the country. KNIX was everywhere!
If an event was happening in Phoenix or the market....KNIX was there! That was part of its appeal and dominance for many years !

KNIX was one of the very first stations in the market to do TV spots. I remember country singer George Strait customizing our first TV spot. KNIX was certainly cutting edge and formidable in those days. Buck Owens and son Michael Owen's who was general manager were shrewd businessmen and broadcasters. They remained Number One for many years! Buck and family were not afraid to spend money to make money!

I left the market in 1986 for another station in the midwest but came back when offered a gig at the then-new KMLE Country. KMLE Country went on the air on election day in November 1988. It took a few years to garner decent ratings, but yes, both stations co-existed and KMLE carved their own niche as a younger-driven appeal country station. Then owner the Disney families-Shamrock Broadcasting was able to put the right promotional dollars into the mix to make KMLE a player.

I believe that yes, KNIX
 
I remember when KNIX had a 22 share in 1980 ! I was fortunate to be part of the airstaff then. Most dayparts were pulling double digits in the early 80's. KJJJ and KJJJ-FM were competitors, then KC-92, but KNIX dominated. It was one of the most professionally run and promotionally active radio stations in the country. KNIX was everywhere! If an event was happening in Phoenix or the market...KNIX was there! That was part of its appeal and dominance for many years!

KNIX was one of the first stations in the market to do TV spots. I remember country singer George Strait customizing a TV spot for the station. KNIX was certainly cutting edge and formidable in those days. Buck and son Michael Owens, the station GM at the time were shrewd businessmen and broadcasters. The station remained #1 for years. Buck and family were not afraid to spend money to make money!

I left the market in 1986 for a station in the midwest but came back when offered a gig at the then-new KMLE country. KMLE Country 108 went on the air on election day in November 1988. It did take a few years and several books before the station garnered decent ratings but, yes, both stations co-existed and KMLE carved out its own niche as a younger appeal country station. Then owner the Disney family and Shamrock broadcasting was able to put the right promotional dollars in the mix to make KMLE a player into the 90's and they still do well today under CBS radio!

I believe that yes, KNIX might have been the last station in the market to pull double digit ratings, even that was a few years ago now.
 
Are there any seniors our there that remember when KNIX went on the air back in 1959, owned and operated from a residence at 545 W. Highland at 1,000 Watts? The owners were John and Mary Karshner and the play list was BM. The stereo transmitter was in a remodeled front porch area with the antenna was atop a telephone pole in their back yard. They later moved the station to the top floor of the Camelback Towers, south of Camelback Rd. The antenna was changed out, the power increased to 3KW ERP and now reached throughout the valley.

I read for Mary Karshner one Saturday evening in the Camelback Towers and was offered a non-paying shift for Sunday afternoons. I thanked her for the coffee and wished her good luck on my exit.

Buck Owens' group purchased the station for around $60,000 in 1961/62 and assumed all indebtedness. He relicensed it (eventually) for 100kw atop S. Mountain.
 
I have an old tape from those days, where a sort of rusty, female voice comes in over the music and says "KNIX Phoenix." It was probably Mary. As I recall, there were no commercials. The tape is a reel-to-reel, and I think it is all music.

What station had their antenna on the Heard/Arizona Savings Building about Central and Monroe?
 
Having worked for Buck & Michael Owens at KNIX the story I heard and read in print was that KNIX was purchased in 1968. At the time it was some form of a rock station. The purchase price was reported to be $75,000. A year earlier (1967) Buck bought KYND a daytimer (MOR station) at 1580....which became Country KTUF for $360,000 !!!!

AM was KING in those days regardless if you were a daytimer or not...!

Nice investment of 75K for the FM that certainly paid off for Buck some 31 years later in 1999 when he sold it to Jacor-Clear Channel for Several Million with an "M". The value of an FM station was not realized yet, back in the 60's...!
 
thirdtickket said:
Nice investment of 75K for the FM that certainly paid off for Buck some 31 years later in 1999 when he sold it to Jacor-Clear Channel for Several Million with an "M". The value of an FM station was not realized yet, back in the 60's...!
Click to expand...

KNIX and KESZ were sold in 1999 for $142 million.
 
$142 million for KNIX and KEZ. Thats right....nice return on investment!

Buck also sold the AM (1580) separate from the FM and made some more big bucks there. I believe it was 8 or 10 years ago that he sold his music publishing company (BLUE BOOK MUSIC) to SONY-Tree Publishing for 10-15 million or so too.....

Ole' Buck didn't just fall off one of those bales of hay on HEE HAW...thats for sure ! He was a very smart businessman...! Certainly one of the last of a dyin breed of "Ma & Pop" station owners.
 
Nope, the original family-owned KNIX in uptown Phoenix was sold to Buck Owens no later than '63 -- mind is a little weak on the exact year. No knowledge of rock ever being on 102.5 -- my goodness. When Mary Karchner opened the mike at their in-home operation you could hear their canary chirping in the background. This was "country radio" all right.

I too had a reel-to-reel of their broadcasts but over time it has vanished.

BTW: After KTAR moved to Thomas Rd with two verticals, the Heard Bldg tower set idle until KONI moved there at 1400khz around June of 1954. The top third of the tower fell during a bad storm in July/August and the station had to drop from 250 watts to around 60 watts, fed into a longwire antenna strung across Central Ave to the roof of the Adams Hotel.

A local ham provided an antenna tuner to get the best match/load possible. KONI was off the air for a couple of days but sure had a lot of free press.
 
Bob, sorry but beg to differ on the years Buck bought KNIX. He was launching his career in 1963 with his first number one record. Not much cash flow from his career yet in 63. By 1967 he had racked up some 15 or more #1 records....He first bought KUZZ radio in Bakersfield in 1966. Then in 67 bought KYND (KTUF-1580), then KNIX-FM in 1968 in Phoenix.

Only reason I replied is that I have a BILLBOARD-Country Airplay MONITOR magazine from 1999 with a front page story about the Owens family selling KNIX- FM and KEZ to Jacor-Clear Channel at that time.

In that article it mentions that the AM was bought in 67, the FM in 68 for $75,000. Seems to me I also read the same in a past issue of R & R (Radio and Records) in a country column there!

Buddy Owens is quoted as saying that Buck bought the stations as a tax shelter and then they started makin money !
 
I stand corrected, thirdtickket. My usually imbeccable sources failed me. The KTAR/KONI tower story I lived -- no third party data there.
 
In 1969 I did some part time work for KRDS-1190 in smelly Tolleson. It was one of several country music stations in the Phoenix market but the Cards Dealers had the only country music outlet after sunset. All the other country stations were daytimers. All day long the phone would hardly ever light up. Then sunset would come and we'd be deluged with requests. For 250 watts directional, it did okay. Pretty unique programming concepts. Playlist was called the Deck of 52. PD at the time was Bob Pond. I've never heard any other Cards station anywhere.
 
About seven or eight years before you labored at KRDS in Tolleson I was working at then KZON (same 1190AM Tolleson station) until they flipped to Spanish. I had done four hours every Saturday morning, buying and selling my own show. Two weeks after they flipped, the owner (E.O. Smith) called to ask for the answer to our long running "secret sound", with the winner to receive a living room full of furniture from Trader's Furniture (35th Ave & Bethany).

Seems the station was receiving quite a number of callers asking for the results. Since they gave me no notice of the flip to Spanish, I declined ;D to provide the answer and Trader's kept their furniture.
 
Another "Pioneer" Country broadcaster in Phoenix was Ray Odom who ran KHAT RADIO for many years. His station was over on the near west side (near 27th avenue & McDowell I believe?). If I recall, KHAT was only a daytimer in the 60's competing against KRDS ("Cards-1190") another daytime country station at the time was KMND in Mesa "Command Country" (which later became KDKB!!!) .....then KTUF and KNIX and K-J came along.

I'm told the studio's of KHAT had a big ole' picture window that people could look into and see the jock on the air..! The tower site had horses grazing.

Ray Odom is still active and he must be in his 80's. He later owned KJJJ radio.

Then, in Tucson there was Jim Slone who was first with country-KHOS , then successfully owned KCUB, then KIIM-FM in later years.
 
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