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Phoenix Radio Seems So Boring Right Now...
- Thread starter 2Son
- Start date
Bored?
What could possibly be boring?
The stations in Phoenix (and most of the rest of the country) have done exactly what the people who analyze the People Meter told them that the people who don't know about the People Meter want.
And those people (the latter group of people) want radio stations that play songs and talk very little, if at all.
That stuff that you may have found entertaining? The on-air personalities and the clever station branding? It turns out (according to the former group of people) that people (the latter group) don't like that stuff.
See, here's how it works...Arbitron managed to convince radio stations that they should pay millions of dollars to monitor the listening habits of people who have been determined to not actually care about what they're listening to.
Not surprisingly, these passive listeners have told Arbitron (and their clients) exactly what you'd expect a person - who doesn't actually care about what they're listening to - would say if asked to fill out some sort of survey:
They don't care.
Radio stations have taken this important data and adjusted their programming accordingly.
This is why you find Phoenix radio to be so boring. Quite frankly, it is no longer targeted at you, the active user of the product. It is targeted at the passive, disinterested people whom Arbitron has randomly decided to bribe with a few bucks to carry a People Meter.
If you think things are boring now, just wait.
What could possibly be boring?
The stations in Phoenix (and most of the rest of the country) have done exactly what the people who analyze the People Meter told them that the people who don't know about the People Meter want.
And those people (the latter group of people) want radio stations that play songs and talk very little, if at all.
That stuff that you may have found entertaining? The on-air personalities and the clever station branding? It turns out (according to the former group of people) that people (the latter group) don't like that stuff.
See, here's how it works...Arbitron managed to convince radio stations that they should pay millions of dollars to monitor the listening habits of people who have been determined to not actually care about what they're listening to.
Not surprisingly, these passive listeners have told Arbitron (and their clients) exactly what you'd expect a person - who doesn't actually care about what they're listening to - would say if asked to fill out some sort of survey:
They don't care.
Radio stations have taken this important data and adjusted their programming accordingly.
This is why you find Phoenix radio to be so boring. Quite frankly, it is no longer targeted at you, the active user of the product. It is targeted at the passive, disinterested people whom Arbitron has randomly decided to bribe with a few bucks to carry a People Meter.
If you think things are boring now, just wait.
Ford wins. Well said. Bingo!
Ford said:
When the diary was used, radio stations looked for ways to reach the very few that would actually take the time to keep a log for seven days (remember Thousand Dollar Thursdays?). Now PPM more accurately tracks actual listening...whether it's active or passive. Like it or not, most listeners don't care for all the B.S. on a music station and smart broadcasters have cut it down or out altogether. Radio is simply doing today what it did before PPM. Call it boring, but it's what listeners really want...in spite of the few bucks Arbitron throws at them!
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Dr. Akbar, this isn't what listeners really want. Do you really believe that? If so, you should work for Arbitron. Listeners don't want boring radio with reduced talent. It's simply all that is available right now. Therefore, PPM is simply rating the best of the worst. Due to cost-cutting, downsizing, and radio struggling in general - the talent bar is being dramatically lowered so listeners are choosing more music. However, this is ironically killing FM music radio stations as there are many other convenient options to get music elsewhere. Music radio is not offering anything special or unique now. Without entertaining talent, music radio is a dinosaur. Arbitron's business is to rate what is available, but don't mistake winning in PPM with having a good product or a product that "listener's want." Listeners don't have much of a choice now. If the only thing open are fast food restaurants, try to find a good steak. Instead, you would have to choose the best meal of what is available. Does that mean your meal will be good, or in your words, “what listeners want?” No. That late-night drive-thru that you were forced to choose, with the warmed over hamburgers and stale fries is simply the best of the worst. You had to pick something. You were hungry and forced to choose one by default. That is PPM right now. That is sad. Unless music radio starts to resonate and relate to listeners again, it will never return to being relevant.
Dave Pratt said:
All you have to do is do personal interviews with actual listeners and you find that the interest in "Disk Jockeys" in the 70's and 80's sense of the term is very limited; people are used to getting things much more specific to their taste. DJs are not specific and often talk for the sake of doing it.
Is that a perception or reality? Whatever the case, folks have a much better tuned BS filter today, and they tune out the crap and the fill and the stuff that is irrelevant to them.
You say radio is not as good as it once was due to the economy and greed. I say that the kind of radio that once worked does not any more because listeners have more to compare against and no longer want the vacuous chatter and silly dialogue of the days of yore.
When we have a jockless station in LA, where the dial is loaded with talent, that has been around the top in ratings for quite a number of years, we know there is rejection of the old jock model by some. And by talking to lsiteners, we find that attention spans are different, and the formatics once employed are today rejected by many.
Oh, and it's getting old and tired to hear of "talent" that does not cut it in PPM blaming the methodology. There are plenty of personality air talents who have gone up in PPM... because they believe the methodology is sound and have achieved an understanding of how to work within a new reality.
It's all self-fulfilling, cyclical, lowest common denominator, pure BS. And if I could say it any stronger without being rightfully censored by our friendly moderator, I would! Dave Pratt is 100% correct. There is plenty of room for discussion, but for once I must stand firm on this. Any personality, with any measure of talent, who has watched this game spiral steadily down to the dregs, would have to agree. And anyone who has not been a successful, relevant personality, with a lengthy track record, will never ever agree. If you haven't been in the battle from the programing side - if you've never watched great marketing, direction, and teamwork take hold - I apologize for what I'm about to write. YOU DON"T HAVE A CLUE!!!
Yes I'm "on the beach", so sorry to spoil that rude comment. Yes I'm bitter watching some brilliant minds kowtow to Wall Street. And I am a former CBS employee, with good friends in and out of 840 N. Central. Did I cover all of the ulterior motives? Oh yeah, I'm posting under my own name - imagine that.
When I was 20 years old, working at one of Nashville's greatest radio stations, someone put up a huge poster in the sales pit which read, "Nothing happens in this world until somebody sells something". And I promptly wrote underneath that, "and nothing can be sold until someone creates it." Chicken or egg argument? Only to the bean counters.
Now, before I crawl back under my rock, let me clarify. I am not so crude as to rank myself among the talent I reference above. I have been privileged to work with DOZENS of amazing personalities, and at least five who could be counted among the greatest ever. So I speak from observation, and the privilege of breathing their air.
Go back to Pratt's steak vs. fast food analogy. Read it well. Argue it all you want. It doesn't matter anymore. It may never matter. Radio did a fantastic job of delivering the message, starting about seven years ago. What message? "There are lots of new media to explore and enjoy. Please tune out, and go find all of these exciting new toys." Remember all of the radio killers? TV, 8-tracks, cassettes, VCR's, CD's, DVD's? Now what do we have to listen to (with few exceptions)? "Hey that's Brad Paisley. He's in Alberta this weekend, and he sure puts on a good show. You've got to see him if he ever comes here. (Think voice track / syndication from out of state.) If you wanna see some great pictures of the concert, go to www.somegenericradiostation.com. Now here's another song we've been playing six times a day for ten years, then we'll do another promo for the web site, and then six minutes with 15 units of commercials about shrinking your mortgage and enlarging your private parts. Gather the whole family - they're gonna love these spots."
Sorry for rambling! G'night David.
Yes I'm "on the beach", so sorry to spoil that rude comment. Yes I'm bitter watching some brilliant minds kowtow to Wall Street. And I am a former CBS employee, with good friends in and out of 840 N. Central. Did I cover all of the ulterior motives? Oh yeah, I'm posting under my own name - imagine that.
When I was 20 years old, working at one of Nashville's greatest radio stations, someone put up a huge poster in the sales pit which read, "Nothing happens in this world until somebody sells something". And I promptly wrote underneath that, "and nothing can be sold until someone creates it." Chicken or egg argument? Only to the bean counters.
Now, before I crawl back under my rock, let me clarify. I am not so crude as to rank myself among the talent I reference above. I have been privileged to work with DOZENS of amazing personalities, and at least five who could be counted among the greatest ever. So I speak from observation, and the privilege of breathing their air.
Go back to Pratt's steak vs. fast food analogy. Read it well. Argue it all you want. It doesn't matter anymore. It may never matter. Radio did a fantastic job of delivering the message, starting about seven years ago. What message? "There are lots of new media to explore and enjoy. Please tune out, and go find all of these exciting new toys." Remember all of the radio killers? TV, 8-tracks, cassettes, VCR's, CD's, DVD's? Now what do we have to listen to (with few exceptions)? "Hey that's Brad Paisley. He's in Alberta this weekend, and he sure puts on a good show. You've got to see him if he ever comes here. (Think voice track / syndication from out of state.) If you wanna see some great pictures of the concert, go to www.somegenericradiostation.com. Now here's another song we've been playing six times a day for ten years, then we'll do another promo for the web site, and then six minutes with 15 units of commercials about shrinking your mortgage and enlarging your private parts. Gather the whole family - they're gonna love these spots."
Sorry for rambling! G'night David.
From a listener standpoint, I may not know much about advertising, etc, but it seems to me that radio and personalities used to not only entertain the audience, but educate the listener about music as well. It used to be exciting to hear what song "might" be getting airplay next. Nowadays, the music just seems watered-down with this "Idol" singer (not signer/songwriter) sounding like the next. It's amazing how that works since I'd say there are even more artists out there in different genres nowadays not getting any airplay than there used to be, and when I speak to many of my younger friends, I hear them say how they wish the variety of music from the 80's/early 90's was something that was passed on to their generation. There may be stations without jocks ("Bob's", "Jacks", etc...) who claim to play a more variety of music, yet their playlists (however large they are) still play the same songs over and over. Boring.
I miss the days when stations weren't afraid the push the envelope with new music even if they didn't have the best jocks (KHFI in Austin - early 90's comes to mind). I also miss the days of the great jocks on stations like WLS/Chicago.
It seems to me that radio started to die in the mid-late 90's when programming that used to sound fresh began to sound repetitive and stale. It's now 2010, and if you put me in a time capsule and sent me from '93 into the future, I'd certainly think we'd be hearing much more exciting radio than what we're getting. I'd be in tears too.
I miss the days when stations weren't afraid the push the envelope with new music even if they didn't have the best jocks (KHFI in Austin - early 90's comes to mind). I also miss the days of the great jocks on stations like WLS/Chicago.
It seems to me that radio started to die in the mid-late 90's when programming that used to sound fresh began to sound repetitive and stale. It's now 2010, and if you put me in a time capsule and sent me from '93 into the future, I'd certainly think we'd be hearing much more exciting radio than what we're getting. I'd be in tears too.
Dave Pratt said:
Why is it you can find more Billboard #1-ranked artists (e.g., The Shins, Spoon, Sade) on TV shows like SNL but they're rarely, if ever, heard on FM radio anymore? That's what I don't understand. You can hear more new music on TV (late nite, regular scripted shows, even on 'Live With Regis & Kelly') than on the radio these days. I find it hard to believe that more suits and bean-counters can't simply add the tracks that are increasingly featured on iPod commercials and car commercials. Whoever said "TV is the new radio" wasn't kidding. It has nothing to do with the "talent bar" and everything with simply putting different tracks in rotation. Being a knowledgeable, enthusiastic, and entertaining DJ only goes far with the audio equivalent of spam and top ramen noodles.
The surge of the the Classic Hits/Oldies format is a direct indication that radio with personality and jock-driven energy.....is indeed, very alive!
KOOL, KRTH, Q105, WCBS being just a few prime examples!
All have an unmistakable Top 40 sound of the past...All employ Jocks that inject personality and life in to the mix!
That makes for good radio and substantial PPM results!
KOOL, KRTH, Q105, WCBS being just a few prime examples!
All have an unmistakable Top 40 sound of the past...All employ Jocks that inject personality and life in to the mix!
That makes for good radio and substantial PPM results!
Here's one solution for all the former radio stars:
www.dahl.com
Chicago's Steve Dahl has created his own podcast, where he does what he wants, has a dedicated audience of about 10,000, and apparently attracts advertising. Sure, it's a fraction of his former audience, but you don't play by PPM rules, you don't answer to bean counters (other than yourself), and you can do it from your house.
www.dahl.com
Chicago's Steve Dahl has created his own podcast, where he does what he wants, has a dedicated audience of about 10,000, and apparently attracts advertising. Sure, it's a fraction of his former audience, but you don't play by PPM rules, you don't answer to bean counters (other than yourself), and you can do it from your house.
Self fulfilling prophacy, yes--but also a key question should be asked: Is the current state of radio a case of life imitating art or the other way around? 20 years ago, radio was more about personality, building an audience and connecting with the community, that's what GM's would say and that's what their research would tell them, now--strangely--their research tells them the precise opposite. I understand there's a tremendous cultural evolution that has taken place in a short time, I also am well aware that our collective attention spans have waned significantly, but isn't it odd how PD's/GM's always find the research that agrees with their position and then puts on a radio station that does just that--thereby the audience accepts that style of radio as the "norm". So, less talk, less personality is what the culture has gone with because GMs have set it up that way.
Of course, listeners are leaving terrestrial radio in droves so I'm not exactly sure how people can continue to justify these radical changes, I guess some people still believe the Titanic is unsinkable.
Of course, listeners are leaving terrestrial radio in droves so I'm not exactly sure how people can continue to justify these radical changes, I guess some people still believe the Titanic is unsinkable.
indieradioguy said:
Stations, as a group, add more new music than ever before. That's mostly because there is much more format differentiation nad fragmentation than in the past. Each station, assuming it even plays currents, adds some music... and the sum is a lot of new cuts being exposed.
However, the mere fact that a song is on some TV show or commercial does not guarantee it ongoing play. New tracks are researched with station listeners for playability. In other words, listeners are played a bit of the song and asked how much they want or don't want to hear the song on the radio today. If a song fails, it gets no more play.
Managers and accountants don't determine the music... it's the programmer and the listener.
DavidEduardo said:
True...one live performance on a TV show is nothing compared to the commitment of adding a song in even light rotation. Also, although there may be laws about payola for airplay, there are a lot of games taking place for appearances on TV shows. The label will often pick up a lot of the expenses, and new acts get a shot if the label also delivers the bigger stars. And I've spoken with labels about this, and they will tell you that at the end of the day, only three TV shows move the meter when it comes to record sales, at least to the degree that one gets from an add on a major radio station.
airpab said:
You hit the key issue.
There is realignment as radio adapts to a more precise measurement. Some formats show greater strength and some do not. This is no different than what we saw moving from Hooper and Pulse to Arbitron in the past, or when looking at Birch vs. Arbitron in later years.
The diary measured three things, when good ratings measure only two. The diary measured cume, TSL and memory... the diarykeeper's ability to write down, later, what was listened to earlier in time. The meter just measures what it hears.
To a considerable extent, these pleasant, fun to listen to classic hits stations do well in the PPM because they are "everyone's" second favorite station... the one you use along with 4 or 5 others... but quite regularly. In the diary, listening to the favorite station got exaggerated by rounding and memory and hype, while the secondary stations got under-reported.
We are also seing a nice resurgance of CHR and that's in demos where supposedly nobody listens to radio. Yet in LA, one CHR cumes 3.5 million and the other around 2.5 million!
Big A, or whatever....(all of these fake names still suck) You don't know one DJ who wouldn't take a radio job if one opened up? If that is the case, I can assure it is only for the paycheck. Understandable, but still very sad. Although I have never considered myself a "DJ" (yuck), you can now claim that you know of a radio personality who would not take just any job if one opened up. In fact, quite honestly, I have already turned down 3 of the 4 major companies in town who own a total of nearly 20 stations, as well as several stations in larger markets. No thanks. Currently, there is not one station in this market that would interest me enough to come back. Believe me, I am more than grateful to currently have my "get out of jail free card." Unless somebody or some station does something different or gets aggressive again, radio is boring right now. For the first time in my life, I barely even listen to the medium that has blessed my family for 30 years. As a listener, radio has currently lost my interest. On an average day, I consume 10 to 15 minutes max, and most of that time is desperately switching channels in an attempt to find something compelling. Believe me, I am one of radio's biggest cheerleaders but like the majority of listeners, I am running out of patience while waiting for a chance to show support.
Dave Pratt said:
That's fine. When you take a job at a radio station, you're playing with house money. You know what that means. When you play with house money, you take what you get, and it can be boring. The alternative is putting your own assets on the line. You and Stu have the knowledge, experience, contacts, and everything else to take a few risks on your own, rather than depend on some fat corporation to take the risk. So when your term is over, just do it, and show us all how dumb we really are. That's the ONLY way things will change.
Big A - Now you're talkin'! And how many pros would rather work with me than for one of the big stale conglomerates? I am making my list now. And no, my goal would not be to show you how "dumb you are", but instead, show you how much fun radio can still be if you choose to lead and not follow. I would rather have us on the same team. Life is too short for a cattle call. Why be part of the mindless herd?
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