C
california
Guest
winners, losers and the usual also rans? (trend)
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PITTSBURGH ARBITRON PPM RATINGS RELEASED: JUNE 2010
- Thread starter pjc1961
- Start date
california said:winners, losers and the usual also rans? (trend)
WDVE is still #1, though down slightly.
KDKA is still #2, but is in danger of falling into third place.
KISS had the highest numbers in the history of that format, and if they gain another half-point or so, will
have the highest numbers in the history of the frequency.
3WS and BOB still in a pitched battle for the Classic Hits listeners, although 3WS is gaining. I can't recall
3WS ever having a number that high.
WSHH and STAR both uptrended nicely. The X dropped sharply, probably due to the end of the Penguins
(as others have noted).
KDKA-FM aka "The Fan" was beaten by WHJB-FM and tied WJPA. I begin to think, for the first time, that
they might have made a mistake, but I still believe they're in it for the long haul, and we'll see what goes
on when Pitt comes on board.
The new 103 KVE nearly doubled its cume, and Frankie Day on the Swingin' 770 has beaten the sports on
970 yet again.
C.
C
california
Guest
How can stations like am 970, wltj 92.9, among others, continue with such consistant bad numbers?
In 970's case, it costs CC virtually nothing, gives Premiere Radio Networks (which is CC) clearance on Dan Patrick and Jim Rome, and generates some revenue by carrying things (long form Steeler shows, the Dave Wannstedt show when they had Pitt) that would be ratings killers on FM, but still bring in a few bucks. When CC owns clusters, not every station is intended to have big ratings. If 970 were well programmed, it would potentially take male 25-54 listeners from DVE, so in their mind this is part of their "protect the mothership" mentality. They would rather own it and have it do nothing than have to compete against it. (I could go on at some length about the anti-competitive practices that abound among the big companies in the industry).
92.9 does not necessarily need big 12+ numbers. to evaluate how they are doing you would have to see women 25-54 and 35-64. If they are in the top 5 in those demos they make money. That has been WLTJ's business plan for almost 25 years now.
92.9 does not necessarily need big 12+ numbers. to evaluate how they are doing you would have to see women 25-54 and 35-64. If they are in the top 5 in those demos they make money. That has been WLTJ's business plan for almost 25 years now.
california said:How can stations like am 970, wltj 92.9, among others, continue with such consistant bad numbers?
You are only looking at the generic numbers. If 970 AM is #5 in 25-54 Males in Allegheny County, they can sell it. For this station in particular I do not know the specifics but more than likely its some sort of a deal between the network and CC to have the programming aired in the Pittsburgh market. The 970 signal stinks. I can't really imagine anything would do well on it.
WLTJ has been a bottom feeder for years. Its identity crisis, the past few, has not helped it any. Tired, over repeated a/c songs with mushmouth 1980s soft a/c jocks during the day - a half-assed attempt at urban a/c at night with robotic song tags and irritating "let's relate to our audience with annoying quips every few songs" imaging - the entire mess hands the a/c crowd to WISH.
This will be the next format change in Pittsburgh because the suits at CBS don't have the pride to say the Fan stinks.
Most of the bottom stations book after book, WLTJ, The Fan, etc. are not necessarily owned by people willing to take any sort of programming risks either. Despite what people say, this market begs for an urban station, an adult album alternative or because of the age of the population, a WDUV knockoff. You won't see any of these happen. Not in a market as stale as Pittsburgh.
Parttimer said:WLTJ has triple the 12+ audience of the Fan and is probably in or near the Top 5 in female demos.
970 has a virtually no audience, they aren't top 5 in anything. Nor are they intended to be.
On most nights, the PNC Park public address announcer has triple the 12+ audience of the Fan.
Jkf said:Parttimer said:WLTJ has triple the 12+ audience of the Fan and is probably in or near the Top 5 in female demos.
970 has a virtually no audience, they aren't top 5 in anything. Nor are they intended to be.
On most nights, the PNC Park public address announcer has triple the 12+ audience of the Fan.
Is that nights when the Pirates are home, or nights when the Pirates are away?
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
It would seem that WJAS could do a lot worse for it's AM signal and format. At times they have sounded very close to WDUV in music selections, but now seem to be going more MOYL than in the past several years. I think a WDUV type station on a strong FM signal could do well here, but I have no idea who would try it.
WDUV is #1 in the ratings in Tampa Bay and #14 in billing.
WLTJ became Q92.9 because they were headed down the same path, their demos were too old.
WJAS is driven largely by business that Bogut and Cardille bring in personally.
So what station would try the WDUV soft AC format? WLTJ is the lowest rated FM in the market for practical purposes (full market standalone, commercial.. so they are beaten by the combined Frogs, and I don't count the religious signals), and they are sold in tandem with BOB-FM. What would they gain? What good are higher ratings if they bring in less revenue?
WLTJ became Q92.9 because they were headed down the same path, their demos were too old.
WJAS is driven largely by business that Bogut and Cardille bring in personally.
So what station would try the WDUV soft AC format? WLTJ is the lowest rated FM in the market for practical purposes (full market standalone, commercial.. so they are beaten by the combined Frogs, and I don't count the religious signals), and they are sold in tandem with BOB-FM. What would they gain? What good are higher ratings if they bring in less revenue?
1. If you are #1 in ratings and #14 in billing - your sales team is not doing their job. Let's reverse that and say a station as awful as The Fan, if they get another PBP contract, might eventually become only #12 in the ratings, but #2-3 in billing.
2. WLTJ became Q 92.9 because some consultant thought it should. Its an adult contemporary version of Bob in that its the same old same old packaged in a more decorative box. We can hear Matchbox 20 on five stations in town - but only Bob can insert a liner about West View Park, and only the robot on Q92.9 can tell us the title, in case we forgot after hearing that song 1,000 times.
3. Given WJAS' respectable ratings, even in the PPMs, Renda should pay more attention to the format. I do think, unfortuantely, once Cardille and Bogut hang up the headphones Renda will flip the format or shut it down completely.
4. Maybe WAOB could go to a WDUV format mixed in with Catholic programming. And before you laugh, it's being done on KLUX in South Texas on a non-comm frequency.
2. WLTJ became Q 92.9 because some consultant thought it should. Its an adult contemporary version of Bob in that its the same old same old packaged in a more decorative box. We can hear Matchbox 20 on five stations in town - but only Bob can insert a liner about West View Park, and only the robot on Q92.9 can tell us the title, in case we forgot after hearing that song 1,000 times.
3. Given WJAS' respectable ratings, even in the PPMs, Renda should pay more attention to the format. I do think, unfortuantely, once Cardille and Bogut hang up the headphones Renda will flip the format or shut it down completely.
4. Maybe WAOB could go to a WDUV format mixed in with Catholic programming. And before you laugh, it's being done on KLUX in South Texas on a non-comm frequency.
Jkf said:1. If you are #1 in ratings and #14 in billing - your sales team is not doing their job. Let's reverse that and say a station as awful as The Fan, if they get another PBP contract, might eventually become only #12 in the ratings, but #2-3 in billing.
That's because the lower-rated station is delivering listeners that advertisers want. WJAS salespeople can't get some agencies to take their calls because they know the audience is 55+ and they don't want that.
Jkf said:1. If you are #1 in ratings and #14 in billing - your sales team is not doing their job. Let's reverse that and say a station as awful as The Fan, if they get another PBP contract, might eventually become only #12 in the ratings, but #2-3 in billing.
To put WDUV in context, they are one of 6 FMs Cox owns in that market (and yes, the limit is 5 but they did some smooth talking to the commission about contour overlaps.. technically one of them is a Sarasota station). But they rank around 10th in women 25-54, and in their key demos they rank 4th in their own building. So their sales force has better numbers to sell on other frequencies.
The Fan, on the other hand, is edging towards the top 5 in men 25-54 and will make money on that. I'm hearing through the grapevine that they are starting to show some signs of life in the weekly numbers.
Jkf said:2. WLTJ became Q 92.9 because some consultant thought it should. Its an adult contemporary version of Bob in that its the same old same old packaged in a more decorative box. We can hear Matchbox 20 on five stations in town - but only Bob can insert a liner about West View Park, and only the robot on Q92.9 can tell us the title, in case we forgot after hearing that song 1,000 times.
True, but the point is that for years as Lite FM they WERE what WDUV is now. The difference in WDUV's 12+ numbers and LTJ's is KDKA. There's no AM with that kind of staying power in Tampa (WFLA is more or less the same station as 104.7). And LTJ's numbers were getting too old. The fact that they chose a really horrendous format as the alternative is another story...
While I know that the Frischlings have always sold LTJ for female demos, I think there's actually a hole on the market for a good adult rock format that would mix classic artists like Springsteen, Tom Petty, U2, Beatles, Clapton and Sheryl Crow with more modern artists like Jack Johnson, Wilco, and Death Cab for Cutie.
Jkf said:3. Given WJAS' respectable ratings, even in the PPMs, Renda should pay more attention to the format. I do think, unfortuantely, once Cardille and Bogut hang up the headphones Renda will flip the format or shut it down completely.
It's ALL over 55, just not sellable. I think they'd do better if they could put something together with some of the second-tier syndicated talkers who aren't currently represented here, such as Boortz, Clark Howard, Smerconish, Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin, etc.
Jkf said:4. Maybe WAOB could go to a WDUV format mixed in with Catholic programming. And before you laugh, it's being done on KLUX in South Texas on a non-comm frequency.
WAOB doesn't care about packaging, they just care about their mission.
J
JimmyJames
Guest
"I think there's actually a hole on the market for a good adult rock format that would mix classic artists like Springsteen, Tom Petty, U2, Beatles, Clapton and Sheryl Crow with more modern artists like Jack Johnson, Wilco, and Death Cab for Cutie."
WYEP.
(and yes, I know you probably mean more mainstream than YEP but any "adult rock" format would be splitting audience with them which would undercut their fundraising base while probably not rating that highly. I love the AAA format, but most companies can't look past the low ratings measurement most of them pull.)
WYEP.
(and yes, I know you probably mean more mainstream than YEP but any "adult rock" format would be splitting audience with them which would undercut their fundraising base while probably not rating that highly. I love the AAA format, but most companies can't look past the low ratings measurement most of them pull.)
JimmyJames said:"I think there's actually a hole on the market for a good adult rock format that would mix classic artists like Springsteen, Tom Petty, U2, Beatles, Clapton and Sheryl Crow with more modern artists like Jack Johnson, Wilco, and Death Cab for Cutie."
WYEP.
(and yes, I know you probably mean more mainstream than YEP but any "adult rock" format would be splitting audience with them which would undercut their fundraising base while probably not rating that highly. I love the AAA format, but most companies can't look past the low ratings measurement most of them pull.)
There's also the fact that too few advertisers can accept the fact that as the Baby Boomers age, the 55+ market isn't the desolate wasteland it used to be.
JimmyJames said:"I think there's actually a hole on the market for a good adult rock format that would mix classic artists like Springsteen, Tom Petty, U2, Beatles, Clapton and Sheryl Crow with more modern artists like Jack Johnson, Wilco, and Death Cab for Cutie."
WYEP.
(and yes, I know you probably mean more mainstream than YEP but any "adult rock" format would be splitting audience with them which would undercut their fundraising base while probably not rating that highly. I love the AAA format, but most companies can't look past the low ratings measurement most of them pull.)
Way more mainstream than WYEP., this would be almost a Rock AC. Their audience is the granola bars and Birkenstocks crowd. I'd play the Eagles last album, and McCartney's "Fireman" project... somewhere between "The Spectum" on satellite and the original WMMO in Orlando back in the 90's.
There's more appeal to this music than you think... next time you're in Best Buy look at the bands that are featured on their in-store videos. Pretty much the same ones that lead the Alternative downloads on iTunes.
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