Pittsburgh Area Community Radio

[Radio_Realist]

Now, I just have to find the right location.

If the salesman is good enough, the location won't matter all that much. If he's not good enough, the location also won't matter all that much.

The classic 80/20 rule applies here. Basically, any success in a low powered station is 80% salesman's skill, 20% location and programming content.

If you think that finding just the right location is the key to success, then you're fooling yourself.

 

[WCWalker]

I guess it all depends upon your definition of success. Perhaps if I ran a 1kw AM I would be mostly concerned with the bottom line. But the goals I have for this Part 15 AM station are not based solely upon monetary return on the initial investment. This is mostly about servicing the community with quality information, talk, news in addition to entertaining the audience. Any profit that results will be a plus.

 

[Radio_Realist]

This is mostly about servicing the community with quality information, talk, news in addition to entertaining the audience.

Then why bother with all the trouble involved in putting up a radio transmitter. Buy yourself a hand bell, and stand on the local street corner. Putting "quality information" out there is one thing. But if only a scant handful of people who are within the range of your transmitter bother turning their dials to your station, even if you are transmitting the kind of stuff that wins awards, you're not accomplishing much.

Wake up and smell the coffee. The overwhelming majority of people don't want "quality information". They want sensational, tabloid journalism. They want shock-jock entertainment. They want shrill-voiced advocates of what they already believe in to reinforce their beliefs. They want dirt. If you can find news about who is having a clandestine affair with whom, or any other really juicy and scandalous local news, you'll get listeners. Beyond that, there's just not enough going on in small towns to keep the people who live there interested.

If you want to be the 21st century equivalent of "Poor Richard", go for it. If you want to do the radio equivalent of "Wayne's World" or some other cable access program, go for it. It will probably be fun until you go broke. And, if you're independently wealthy, then it would be a great hobby to spend your spare time.

But don't kid yourself into thinking that you'll be providing some sort of a community service that the community is going to embrace with open ears.

So enjoy yourself. Have fun.

 

[WCWalker]

Actually, when you consider that radio ad revenue is slowly on the rise while listenership is down, it shows that Salesmanship is indeed important. The only people that want to listen to the radio you describe are morons. Thankfully, the kind of radio I plan to produce will still garner a fair number of listeners. Already have done it and the next step is to make it a commercial entity. The fact that I had a GM of a 5kw station in a Top 50 market want to develop a "symbiotic" relationship between his station and mine seems to indicate this kind of radio is still popular. And since I have several other radio professionals from small to large markets involved in this venture I suspect they have some faith in my judgment.

I'm not really interested in your opinion about whether or not such a venture will succeed or fail. In fact, you are overwhelmingly negative and seem to suggest community radio is not only not needed but ignored by the radio audience. Not the case. Corporate America feeds them pablum because it is cheaper to produce than to staff a station with real people and program it accordingly. It's still being done in some places like Gloversville, NY where WENT AM 1340 is live and local for more than 12 hours a day. Me thinks you are attempting to get my goat i.e. under my skin. It won't work. ;D

 

[Radio_Realist]

It always cracks me up when someone posts something that includes the words "Your feedback is welcome" who then gets angry when the feedback received isn't what they wanted to hear.

What you call "overwhelmingly negative", I call "simply realistic".

Corporate America feeds them pablum because it is cheaper to produce than to staff a station with real people and program it accordingly.

No, Corporate America (as well as all of the independent entrepreneurs who own small market radio stations all over the country) feeds the audience what the audience wants because H. L. Mencken was correct.

 

[WCWalker]

Yes, your feedback is welcome. And no, I am not angry about you stating your opinion. I simply don't need to know in your estimation why it will fail. ;D

Corporate America does what IT wants and not necessarily what it's LISTENERS want. I know one station owner that programs his station for his advertising clients and NOT his listeners. Having formerly worked in the corporate environment in a number of industries I can tell you that Corporate America does not give a damn about its customers.

 

[kenhawk1160]

OK, it's scary that two of us on this board grew up in Vandergrift. But I think you're right on the money as far as the income prospects. With the improvement of access into Pittsburgh, Allegheny and Washington Townships have become low-tax alternatives for those willing to make a longer commute into the city, so many of those with good incomes likely aren't even going to be in your listening area during the day. Most now shop in Monroeville and at Pittsburgh Mills. I have never heard a single spot during the music programming on WTYM in Kittanning. I think all of their revenue comes from tape-delayed high school sports broadcasts and brokered weekend programming.

I mean really, if a fantastic signal like 620 needs to make its living with brokered programming despite the potential of serving nearly 2 million listeners, how much money can you make on $5 spots? What is your business plan? Are you aiming to clear maybe $1,000/week? (I don't know, maybe you can make that nut just seeling the weekend mornings to churches and the rest is gravy, but WAVL would likely have a vast head start on that front). Not telling you not to do it, but I wouldn't.

Parttimer, most of Allegheny and Washington Townships, as well as the Tri-borough area along the Kiski River are made up of older people...as in retirees. The high-income people you're speaking of won't be home during the day, but you also have another high-end income audience made up of AL, B&W, and other industry employees retired from the shop. Those people are more apt to buy their cars at Keddie Chevrolet, suits at Malcolm's, eat at Bonello's, and buy gardening supplies at Apollo Milling.

I think money can be made in this venture, but keep in mind how small of a piece of the advertising pie you're going to have. You have competition from Comcast, the Valley Daily, the Kiski News, and of course, the two local radio stations. The reason why the two stations aren't airing a lot of spots is because they're not being aggressively marketed because they both have non-broadcast revenue to fall back on. However, if you get aggressive, they will likely do the same.

But I wish you success...I wouldn't mind hearing my alma mater's (Kiski Area) football games on the air each week.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Corporate America does what IT wants and not necessarily what it's LISTENERS want. I know one station owner that programs his station for his advertising clients and NOT his listeners. Having formerly worked in the corporate environment in a number of industries I can tell you that Corporate America does not give a damn about its customers.

Actually, this is the case with just about EVERY radio station on the dial. If it sells, it goes on the air, with very few exceptions. However, the ones that succeed are the ones who don't entirely sell out to their clients. When WTYM in Kittanning was a country station for two years (1990-92), they received TONS of positive listener feedback, including an actual blip in the Arbitrons for probably the first time in its history.

HOWEVER, the station did NOT do any better financially than they had been doing when they were playing AC and oldies. To the contrary, there was tons of advertiser backlash. There are certain markets where you can wave a ratings book in an advertiser's face all you want and tell them that 'these are how many listeners our station has'. That may mean something to an agency, but in small market, where you survive on more than 90 percent local revenue, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. An advertiser will NOT buy spots on your station if they don't like the product you're putting out.

I don't particularly like news/talk, but if that's what I feel is going to make me money for my station, then that's what's going on the air. Radio is like any other business...you can program it to your own personal tastes and expect to go dark within a year, or program it to the needs of your business and civic community and turn a profit.

 

[Radio_Realist]

I can tell you that Corporate America does not give a damn about its customers.

Corporate America cares greatly about what its customers want to buy that can be sold profitably. It only cares about what its customers needs if that need translates to a want. If the customers need it, but don't really want it, Corporate America doesn't care much about trying to sell it. If the customers want it, but it can't be sold profitably, then that want will go unfilled.

Go to any women's' shoe store and look at the products offered for sale. There are far fewer choices of sturdy, healthy shoes that are comfortable and lead to good podiatric health than there are pointy toed high heels and other cruel shoes that women want to buy and wear. So, does the fact that Corporate America makes far more fashionable cruel shoes that women want to buy than "sensible" shoes that most women wouldn't wear in public mean that Corporate America doesn't care about customer needs or that it does care about customer wants?

program it to the needs of your business and civic community and turn a profit.

That sounds good. It's wrong, but it sounds good. If businesses catered to the needs of their markets, most of them would go broke. Businesses succeed by catering to the desires of their markets.

What causes many well-intentioned businesses to fail is often a perception on the part of the entrepreneur that he knows best what his market needs. It's usually presented in some sort of high-sounding, very noble service for the betterment and improvement of the community. The hidden sub-text of the presentation of the idea is "I know what's good for you, so I'll deliver this 'good medicine' to you and your lives will be better thanks to my superior wisdom".

Operating a super-local low-powered radio station that serves what some superior minded expert regards as the "needs" of the community is like opening a road-side snack food stand that only sells broccoli and spinach. After all, the community needs vitamin packed vegetables. Providing them with leafy green vegetables is meeting a need that the corporate chains like Dairy Queen and Tastee Freeze aren't serving. Never mind that the majority of people don't want to stop for a quick serving of spinach or broccoli as they drive down the road. They need those leafy green vegetables.

 

[WCWalker]

Corporate America does not care greatly about what its customers want to buy. A significant number of American corporations treat their customers with utter contempt and disdain. I know this FIRST HAND from experiences I've had both as a customer and an employee. Another example:

In 1995 supermarket chain in New England bought out another chain. The new chain came in and PROMPTLY removed most of the favorite products of the current customer base and replaced it with what they perceived the customers wanted. In reality they stocked the shelves with brands the corporate home office wanted and NOT what the customers wanted. How do I know this? I asked a Regional Director why they were not carrying the products the customers were asking for and his response was "We'll give them what we want to give them. Eventually they will get used to it". No kidding. Another example:

Another friend in radio, a GM of a 5kw AM in the Harrisburg market, got out of the business after the following happened. He was running a Mom and Pop AM in the market and it did quite well. Live and local coverage was what the people wanted and he gave it to them. Pretty soon it got to the point where he could barely get enough advertisers to cover his station's costs. Reason being? Several of his current and former clients told him the corporate sales people in the market would come in and "convince" their respective businesses that they should buy time on their station because it would reach the "right" kind of people that would utilize their products or services. These businesses soon learned it was nothing more than a lie and that the sales people of these corporations were simply selling a "story" about an alleged demographic that supposedly tuned into the station at the time of day they would advertise. Sadly, this was not an isolated incident either and it happened to a lot of businesses. My friend wound up quitting his job as GM of the 5kw AM and chose to start up his own part 15 AM. He found it was EASIER to sell the part 15 AM than the 5kw AM because people were able to clearly distinguish between the little Mom and Pop part 15 vs. the large, high powered stations.

50 years ago corporate America did still give a damn about its customers. Today they are incredibly arrogant and elitist when it comes to dealing with their customer base and in reality, do what they choose to vs. what is best for the consumer. Your vague analogies to leafy green vegetables comparing to sound business practices is absurd.

I have done and will do marketing studies to learn what the needs or as you say desires of the listening audience will be. I am not foolish enough to program a station for my own needs or interests and then attempt to pass it off to the community as a public service. I should also add, at one time I was the highest salaried manager in the ENTIRE nation for the company I worked for. I was recognized by my company as being one of the very best they had. I have a very clear grasp of how to run a small business, how to take care of customers, and to effective market a product. I plan to utilize those sound and ethical practices with my radio station. And your allegation that I am a "superior minded expert" is laughable.

 

[kenhawk1160]

program it to the needs of your business and civic community and turn a profit.

That sounds good. It's wrong, but it sounds good. If businesses catered to the needs of their markets, most of them would go broke. Businesses succeed by catering to the desires of their markets.

What causes many well-intentioned businesses to fail is often a perception on the part of the entrepreneur that he knows best what his market needs. It's usually presented in some sort of high-sounding, very noble service for the betterment and improvement of the community. The hidden sub-text of the presentation of the idea is "I know what's good for you, so I'll deliver this 'good medicine' to you and your lives will be better thanks to my superior wisdom".

Operating a super-local low-powered radio station that serves what some superior minded expert regards as the "needs" of the community is like opening a road-side snack food stand that only sells broccoli and spinach. After all, the community needs vitamin packed vegetables. Providing them with leafy green vegetables is meeting a need that the corporate chains like Dairy Queen and Tastee Freeze aren't serving. Never mind that the majority of people don't want to stop for a quick serving of spinach or broccoli as they drive down the road. They need those leafy green vegetables.

That was admittedly my bad, Realist. I did mean 'desires' rather than 'needs'. My point was that you can offer a station with full-service programming elements such as local news and sports aired frequently, but if your product is so bad that listeners tune out after the news, then you have a real problem. Your most vocal and outspoken listeners may want country, but the more palatable choice will likely be AC or something a little more mainstream.

 

[Radio_Realist]

My point was that you can offer a station with full-service programming elements such as local news and sports aired frequently, but if your product is so bad that listeners tune out after the news, then you have a real problem.

You also have a problem if there simply is no local news that more than a handful of people want to hear. You can have the best reporters finding the stories, the best writers turning those reports into compelling copy, and someone with a stentorian voice of authority to read that copy (or, if you're lucky, one triple-threat talent who can do all three jobs), but if there's simply nothing interesting going on in town, you're not going to have a newscast people will want to tune in to.

Reminds me of a story about a guy who goes to a small town in New England on a business trip. He's walking around town at 8:00 looking for something to do, and finds nothing. He sees an old guy on his porch, and he asks the old guy what people do in the town for excitement. The old guy looks at him and says, "'Round here, folks just don't get excited."

 

[kenhawk1160]

My point was that you can offer a station with full-service programming elements such as local news and sports aired frequently, but if your product is so bad that listeners tune out after the news, then you have a real problem.

You also have a problem if there simply is no local news that more than a handful of people want to hear. You can have the best reporters finding the stories, the best writers turning those reports into compelling copy, and someone with a stentorian voice of authority to read that copy (or, if you're lucky, one triple-threat talent who can do all three jobs), but if there's simply nothing interesting going on in town, you're not going to have a newscast people will want to tune in to.

Reminds me of a story about a guy who goes to a small town in New England on a business trip. He's walking around town at 8:00 looking for something to do, and finds nothing. He sees an old guy on his porch, and he asks the old guy what people do in the town for excitement. The old guy looks at him and says, "'Round here, folks just don't get excited."

I don't care how small the market is, Realist. There's always something going on that's fodder for local news. There should always be something going on in your newsroom. If the town is so small that there's nothing going on, then the station wouldn't be on the air, as there would be no revenue to support it...unless you're a Part 15 AM of course.

Vehicle accidents with injuries, burglaries, any $5,000 or more bailable offense, local government meetings, localized state news (i.e. Gov. Rendell hands out economic development grant money at the county level), obituaries of prominent local business people and regional 'kickers' are all good examples.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Vehicle accidents with injuries, burglaries, any $5,000 or more bailable offense, local government meetings, localized state news (i.e. Gov. Rendell hands out economic development grant money at the county level), obituaries of prominent local business people and regional 'kickers' are all good examples.

Even though I doubt if most small towns have events like that happening with enough regularity to fill newscasts every day of the week, it would take quite a staff of reporters to cover such news. But, if you can find enough people with the kind of morbid curiosity to care about traffic accidents, burglaries, and crimes to run a station, more power to you. Personally, I have found that the public doesn't care about that kind of news they way they used to. They've become jaded. Now, if you can find some juicy scandals, like the mayor boinking the chief of police, then you'll get listeners. The problem is that kind of story doesn't happen real often, but the newscast has to be interesting and compelling every single day in order to hold an audience.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Even though I doubt if most small towns have events like that happening with enough regularity to fill newscasts every day of the week, it would take quite a staff of reporters to cover such news. But, if you can find enough people with the kind of morbid curiosity to care about traffic accidents, burglaries, and crimes to run a station, more power to you. Personally, I have found that the public doesn't care about that kind of news they way they used to. They've become jaded. Now, if you can find some juicy scandals, like the mayor boinking the chief of police, then you'll get listeners. The problem is that kind of story doesn't happen real often, but the newscast has to be interesting and compelling every single day in order to hold an audience.

I'm sorry, Realist...but I find you dead wrong on this. Especially where you say uncovering "juicy scandals" will get listeners, as opposed to my earlier statement. If you uncover something like what you just said, you better have plenty of sources to back you up, because you will be run out of town on a rail if the affected party has lots of friends out there.

You will find in small market radio, that people still do care about local news like I just mentioned. We still get phone calls regularly from listeners who want to know what's causing a Route 8 traffic tie-up, or if we heard the explosion at the AK Steel plant, and what caused it? When something happens here and our listeners want to know about it, they come to us FIRST. Not the internet, not the TV, but US. I'm not afraid to break in between songs and give our listeners a traffic advisory connected to an accident. There's also lots of word-of-mouth advertising among our listeners as well. Many of the soundbites I play of a local official during a newscast usually leads to them telling me later that someone told them that they heard he/she on the radio. That's powerful stuff.

Not everyone is 'jaded' like you say. They become jaded if they don't get what they want and they're tired of flapping their gums and nothing getting done. A competent operator will listen to his listeners and give them what they want (within reason).

In fact, it makes me wonder...how many business owners who turned down opportunities to advertise on local stations in Connellsville, Charleroi, Brownsville, Huntingdon and other such communities now wish they would have? As is often the case, you don't appreciate something until it's gone.

 

[lash]

Guys,

Has real radio gotten so bad, that the biggest conversation on this board for weeks has to do with a Part 15 AM station reaching about two blocks.

That's really sad!

 

[WCWalker]

Actually, if one uses a FCC Type Accepted Part 15 AM transmitter, the range will be far greater than a mere two blocks. The station in East Liverpool is reporting that its useable range exceeds a mile and can actually be heard up to three or four miles. The station I referenced in the Harrisburg market had similar range in three directions while slightly less in a fourth.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Has real radio gotten so bad, that the biggest conversation on this board for weeks has to do with a Part 15 AM station reaching about two blocks.

As a matter of fact, yes, it has gotten that bad. There is almost nothing new happening in Pittsburgh radio. We've had the annual "They jumped the gun on the Christmas season" discussion about starting to play Christmas music as early as what seemed to be Halloween (it wasn't that early, it just seemed that way). We've talked about the usual "how long will K-Rock continue in its death throes" stuff.

No local stations have changed format significantly recently. There have been no exciting new shows on any station. Pittsburgh seemed to have missed most of the Clear Channel cuts.

WDVE still chugs along, sounding almost exactly like it did at this time last year. The same is true for all the other Clear Channel stations, and for all the CBS stations, and all the Steel City, Renda, and Keymarket stations, and for all the stations who aren't covered by those four companies.

Everything is a year old, a year greyer, a year rustier. Tune in most stations in town and you'll hear the same DJ's playing the same few songs and telling the same few jokes between song sets as they did this time last year.

That's really sad!

Not if you work for a company that sells XM or Sirius equipment and subscriptions.

 

[kenhawk1160]

Guys,

Has real radio gotten so bad, that the biggest conversation on this board for weeks has to do with a Part 15 AM station reaching about two blocks.

That's really sad!

Maybe not bad, Chris...just boring. Nothing's been happening in Pittsburgh lately. No one got fired, formats are still the same, and no real changes are on the horizon for Pittsburgh. We need a transaction here to stir things up a bit!

 

[lash]

I posted under a different thread about some positive things east of the city. I really enjoyed SAM and Cat County 106.3 while home last week. Renda has done a great job with those stations! And SAM is being marketed as a Greensburg station again on billboards etc. That's a great part of the region to go carve out a niche in. Except for WCNS, they have no real radio competition from a billing point of view.

Ken, you gotta get out of there, and buy your own. Come to the south, and strike it rich.