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Place Your Bets...Cleveland's JACK Convert?

O

OldAkronite

With the flip of oldies mainstay WCBS-FM in New York, and sister oldies WJMK in Chicago, no format or station seems sacred from Infinity's new mandate to spread "JACK FM" (variety hits) across the country. They even have a new corporate exec in charge of programming the format.

I'm not going to do any handicapping here, but a full-time "JACK FM" seems likely to show up in Northeast Ohio in the next few weeks, as Infinity owns 4 FM properties in Cleveland.

So, here's your choices:

* WQAL "Q104" (Hot AC)
* WDOK/102.1 (AC)
* WNCX/98.5 (Howard Stern/Classic Rock)
* WXTM/92.3 (Xtreme Radio/Alt. Rock)

Keep in mind that you can think outside the box here...i.e. wiping out the classic rock on 98.5 after Stern, and running him in AM drive until January (a la Buffalo's new JACK FM), or moving 92.3/Xtreme and Rover to 98.5 and mounting the JACK format instead of classic rock on 92.3.

Or...maybe it IS Q that makes the move.

As I noted on another board, the lack of enthusiasm for "JACK FM"/Variety Hits from Infinity's biggest competitor in this market, Clear Channel, may slow down the train...but the company's clearly looking to add the format wherever possible.

I have absolutely no inside information on this, and don't pretend to have any. (In addition, being mostly a news/talk creature, my knowledge base in this arena isn't nearly as big.)

I'm just looking to get thoughts on what people on here think...and sparking some discussion.

-OA
 
> With the flip of oldies mainstay WCBS-FM in New York, and
> sister oldies WJMK in Chicago, no format or station seems
> sacred from Infinity's new mandate to spread "JACK FM"
> (variety hits) across the country. They even have a new
> corporate exec in charge of programming the format.
>
> I'm not going to do any handicapping here, but a full-time
> "JACK FM" seems likely to show up in Northeast Ohio in the
> next few weeks, as Infinity owns 4 FM properties in
> Cleveland.

I dunno. I still can't see a format like that (at least named after a guy) here in Cleveland. Infinity has been pretty vocal about possibly dumping stations in markets outside of the top 15/20 isn't it? Keep in mind, these were oldies stations that were blown-up. I think that might say more about what the "future" of oldies-based formats in most markets. I've heard that Clear Channel doesn't have oldies formats in their long-term forecasts (about 5 years). Whether this is true, I don't know.

> So, here's your choices:
>
> * WQAL "Q104" (Hot AC)

Although they are doing these "Whatever!" weekends, I can't see them switching. They are doing quite well ever since they've become more focused on the "90's and Now". Now, if they were still doing the old positioner which had 80's music in regular rotation and still getting their butts handed to them, THEN I could see them switching. I see them sticking with these "Whatever!" weekends (although I think they can do a better job with the music) & their current format full-time.

> * WDOK/102.1 (AC)

I'll say no to this one :D. I can't see them touching this $$$ & ratings monster.

> * WNCX/98.5 (Howard Stern/Classic Rock)

I think this is the most vunerable of all of them. But not until after January 1st. While it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few classic rockers across the country flipped to something else (the ones who carry Stern), there is something that makes me think they're going to wait and see how 'NCX performs post-Howard before they decide to do something with WNCX.

> * WXTM/92.3 (Xtreme Radio/Alt. Rock)

I think it's safe to say this station is good for now. I'd really like to see them do something in afternoon drive...similar to what they had with Opie and Anthony. It seems the rock audience has a pretty decent balance between the musical leans of WXTM and WMMS, and the classic seasonings of 98.5.

> I have absolutely no inside information on this, and don't
> pretend to have any. (In addition, being mostly a
> news/talk creature, my knowledge base in this arena isn't
> nearly as big.)
>
> I'm just looking to get thoughts on what people on here

I don't have any inside info either, I am just looking at the market as whole. I would still like to know what Infinity's plans are for markets like Cleveland and below. Are they still talking about dumping them or have they changed their mindset in light of this whole "JACK" thing? Maybe they want to keep more markets (like top 50 or something like that)? I dunno.

IMHO, the station I can see going Variety Hits (or similar) in the future is WMVX. They can still keep the "MIX" positioning, but just reimage the station and tweak their playlist & widen up the library.
 
Q104. Of the two Jack stations I've heard (Buffalo 92.9, and "Ben" in Philly) 104.1 isn't that much of a leap. A lot of the songs I remember hearing on those stations that I haven't heard in years (prime example - "Cryin" by Aerosmith) would mix in just fine with what Q104 does now.

98.5 isn't going to be touched before Stern leaves. Besides that, 98.5 is probably the best sounding classic rock station I've heard in my travels (and I used to live in a city where I could fill an entire FM preset row with classic rock stations) so I'm pulling for them to stay that way...

102.1? Ratings too high, and there'd be an instant format hole. I think CC would flip 106.5 (back) to soft rock in a heartbeat if this happened.

Again, I don't see 92.3 being tinkered with before 104.1, especially now with the "Rover's flagship station" thing. All bets are off after December 31st, though...although flipping 92.3 to ANYTHING before doing a format change on 104.1 of some sort would seem silly.
 
> With the flip of oldies mainstay WCBS-FM in New York, and
> sister oldies WJMK in Chicago, no format or station seems
> sacred from Infinity's new mandate to spread "JACK FM"
> (variety hits) across the country. They even have a new
> corporate exec in charge of programming the format.
>
> I'm not going to do any handicapping here, but a full-time
> "JACK FM" seems likely to show up in Northeast Ohio in the
> next few weeks, as Infinity owns 4 FM properties in
> Cleveland.
>
> So, here's your choices:
>
> * WQAL "Q104" (Hot AC)
> * WDOK/102.1 (AC)
> * WNCX/98.5 (Howard Stern/Classic Rock)
> * WXTM/92.3 (Xtreme Radio/Alt. Rock)
>
> Keep in mind that you can think outside the box here...i.e.
> wiping out the classic rock on 98.5 after Stern, and running
> him in AM drive until January (a la Buffalo's new JACK FM),
> or moving 92.3/Xtreme and Rover to 98.5 and mounting the
> JACK format instead of classic rock on 92.3.
>
> Or...maybe it IS Q that makes the move.
>
> As I noted on another board, the lack of enthusiasm for
> "JACK FM"/Variety Hits from Infinity's biggest competitor in
> this market, Clear Channel, may slow down the train...but
> the company's clearly looking to add the format wherever
> possible.
>
> I have absolutely no inside information on this, and don't
> pretend to have any. (In addition, being mostly a
> news/talk creature, my knowledge base in this arena isn't
> nearly as big.)
>
> I'm just looking to get thoughts on what people on here
> think...and sparking some discussion.
>
> -OA
>


WNCX makes money, and does well P25-54, even after Stern (Bill Louis should be commended). I bet WXTM is a harder sell. IF a flip happens, I say Infinity waits until Stern is done. Rover goes to 'NCX and XTM flips.
 
> IMHO, the station I can see going Variety Hits (or similar)
> in the future is WMVX. They can still keep the "MIX"
> positioning, but just reimage the station and tweak their
> playlist & widen up the library.
>

If you have been listening to Mix in the last month or so, they have done this. They have added a decent collection of 70's in rotation...started "No Repeat Workdays", decreased the amount of Hot AC currents they play, and have eliminated "Triple Play Weekends" in favor of weekends that are specializing in some older stuff.
 
It all depends on Howard. Remember, he could still make a quick exit as well. But, since noone's immune, I am going with highly rated WDOK. 98.5 is stuck with Stern, and 92.3 is hanging in there with Rover. Now, after Stern leaves, WDOK reappears on 98.5. Q104 goes CHR to protect DOK and Jack.
Just my two sense.
 
> WNCX makes money, and does well P25-54, even after Stern
> (Bill Louis should be commended). I bet WXTM is a harder
> sell. IF a flip happens, I say Infinity waits until Stern is
> done. Rover goes to 'NCX and XTM flips.

I'd tend to agree with you, as far as waiting to post-Stern, but:

Infinity is really, really hot on this format now. They do seem to be concentrating on getting rid of oldies stations for it (WGRR/Cincinnati employees are likely already sending out their T&Rs), but they flipped a struggling FM talker in Buffalo to the format a couple or three weeks ago... and KEPT Stern.

Infinity's local cluster seems to do pretty well, and there aren't really any "up front" candidates that scream out for a switch (and no oldies in their cluster). But Infinity is, as I put it elsewhere on this board, "drinking the JACK FM Kool-Aid". If they see ANY reason to flip any of the 4 local stations, they'll likely do it.

And as far as "making money"...as far as I know, WCBS-FM was still a moneymaker for them. It was still a top 10 station in the market last book (12-plus), though I have read former PD Joe McCoy noting that sales people complained about selling lower 25-54 numbers.

It's not whether a station "makes money" or not...it's whether they believe the new format can make MORE money.

To my eyes, as someone who's not all that well versed on the market's music stations...everyone except perhaps cash cow WDOK is vulnerable for a JACK-ing.

If they flipped WNCX-post-Stern to JACK, it'd mirror Buffalo, and they could (I suppose) move Rover to 98.5 in January, either with that format or the alt rock format moved from Xtreme.

The sole saving grace preventing a quick JACK-attack here - CC's general unwillingness (so far) to adopt the format, so it puts less time pressure on Infinity to beat someone else in the market to a format Infinity clearly is embracing.

Hmm. 95-5 Jesus FM? "We're playing what God wants"? Nah....
;)

Again, I'm just throwing the chess pieces out there to see how they look...

-OA
 
> It all depends on Howard. Remember, he could still make a
> quick exit as well. But, since noone's immune, I am going
> with highly rated WDOK. 98.5 is stuck with Stern, and 92.3
> is hanging in there with Rover. Now, after Stern leaves,
> WDOK reappears on 98.5. Q104 goes CHR to protect DOK and
> Jack.
> Just my two sense.
>

Never happen. But I like to see you thinking way outside the box. It can be fun.
 
Q seems to be the obvious choice, but why haven't they switched yet? Things may be more complicated than we think.


> > It all depends on Howard. Remember, he could still make a
>
> > quick exit as well. But, since noone's immune, I am going
>
> > with highly rated WDOK. 98.5 is stuck with Stern, and
> 92.3
> > is hanging in there with Rover. Now, after Stern leaves,
> > WDOK reappears on 98.5. Q104 goes CHR to protect DOK and
> > Jack.
> > Just my two sense.
> >
>
> Never happen. But I like to see you thinking way outside
> the box. It can be fun.
>
 
> Q seems to be the obvious choice, but why haven't they
> switched yet? Things may be more complicated than we think.
>
>
> > > It all depends on Howard. Remember, he could still make
> a
> >
> > > quick exit as well. But, since noone's immune, I am
> going
> >
> > > with highly rated WDOK. 98.5 is stuck with Stern, and
> > 92.3
> > > is hanging in there with Rover. Now, after Stern
> leaves,
> > > WDOK reappears on 98.5. Q104 goes CHR to protect DOK
> and
> > > Jack.
> > > Just my two sense.
> > >
> >
> > Never happen. But I like to see you thinking way outside
> > the box. It can be fun.
> >
>

I agree ... I think Q104 is most likely, perhaps the "Whatever" weekends are an "audtion" for their ownship to see if a flip would work. Who knows? I think Rover will remain the anchor of 92.3; and perhaps in the initial post-Stern days 98.5, will look for someone (or a morning show team) to keep classic rock alive in Cleveland. Just my thoughts ... should be interesting though
 
Q-104

I put all my money on Q-104!! And I will go as far to say it will happen this weekend!! And at the same time as Cleveland I see them flipping Pittsburghs 93.7..
 
Re: Q-104

> I put all my money on Q-104!! And I will go as far to say it
> will happen this weekend!! And at the same time as Cleveland
> I see them flipping Pittsburghs 93.7..
>

Here's the thing. Both Cleveland and Pittsburgh have Infinity-owned Hot ACs (Q104 in C-Town, Star 100.7 in the Steel City). How much overlap is there between those formats and a Jack station?

By the way, I re-iterate again: Jack is nothing more than a glorified college radio format. I was doing it 7 years ago, and didn't get paid at all, let alone get a VP position. (And, yes, it was researched. Email and I'll let you know how...)
 
Going way outside the Cleveland box... what about Q92? It's been a while since they've flipped, "adjustments" notwithstanding, and Jack seems like just the flavor of the month/quick fix to get Donnie P's attention. And then when Jack sputters out, he's got his excuse to flip to classic rock (which he's been wanting to do for years), pending the outcome of the Cleveland format dance and its effect on Akron.
 
> Going way outside the Cleveland box... what about Q92? It's
> been a while since they've flipped, "adjustments"
> notwithstanding, and Jack seems like just the flavor of the
> month/quick fix to get Donnie P's attention. And then when
> Jack sputters out, he's got his excuse to flip to classic
> rock (which he's been wanting to do for years), pending the
> outcome of the Cleveland format dance and its effect on
> Akron.
>

Interesting... but lets wait for this book to wrap up and see what shakes out.
 
Re: Q-104

> > I put all my money on Q-104!! And I will go as far to say
> it
> > will happen this weekend!! And at the same time as
> Cleveland
> > I see them flipping Pittsburghs 93.7..
> >
>
> Here's the thing. Both Cleveland and Pittsburgh have
> Infinity-owned Hot ACs (Q104 in C-Town, Star 100.7 in the
> Steel City). How much overlap is there between those
> formats and a Jack station?
>
> By the way, I re-iterate again: Jack is nothing more than a
> glorified college radio format. I was doing it 7 years ago,
> and didn't get paid at all, let alone get a VP position.
> (And, yes, it was researched. Email and I'll let you know
> how...)
>
It would overlap with AC,Hot AC and Classic Rock.. That said, they Have both an AC and a Hot AC station. Being they already have AC stations along with Jack in other markets I would put my money on Q. Q is the number 2 Hot AC station in cleveland which has 3 AC stations overall.. And I know some of you probably are putting money on extreme, but they are doing some shocking things when placing this station!! And I would highly doubt they want a 4 way battle for the AC Pie with 2 of the pieces being theres (DOK and QAL)!!

But we all will just have to wait and see!!! But it will Come you can count on that!
 
> > Going way outside the Cleveland box... what about Q92?
> It's
> > been a while since they've flipped, "adjustments"
> > notwithstanding, and Jack seems like just the flavor of
> the
> > month/quick fix to get Donnie P's attention.

It would give their salespeople a reason to get up in the morning..but would you run Jack with or without Jocks? I think Donnie has his talent under some sort of contracts, which he might have to honor to some degree..

If they were smart, they would have never dumped the oldies format in the first place..if you look at the goldmine of demographic info in the printed Arbitron book, you'd see what an uphill climb it would be for a CHR in this market..

Much of what happens in Akron/Canton will depend on what Clear Channel decides to do when WJER makes its move in later this fall...

Of course, I've always considered Mix 94.1 a ''Jack by accident'' sort of format..some of the train wrecks I've heard on there will live in my memory forever..
>

>
 
I'd put my money on WNCX after Stern leaves, Q104 would be a close second. I also wouldn't be surpised to see JACK on 92.3 and alternative music moving to either 98.5 or 104.1

Now let's have some fun with this. The following is complete fantasy and is about as likely to happen as seeing a pig fly by, getting struck by lightning, winning the lottery, and the sun exploding; all at the exact same time. So, please keep your hands inside the car at all times and enjoy the rest of your day here at...(insert amusement park here).

In a trade Clear Channel get WKNR and Salem gets WMVX and some cash.

Now Salem sells MVX to Infinity, they put JACK on 106.5 and alternative on 98.5 or 104.1.

Infinity sells 92.3 to a mystery buyer.

Salem buys 1260AM from ABC/Disney. Back in the real world, ABC/Disney is rumored to want to sell off the radio division of thier company (see DCRTV.com).
 
> I'd put my money on WNCX after Stern leaves, Q104 would be a
> close second. I also wouldn't be surpised to see JACK on
> 92.3 and alternative music moving to either 98.5 or 104.1
>
> Now let's have some fun with this. The following is
> complete fantasy and is about as likely to happen as seeing
> a pig fly by, getting struck by lightning, winning the
> lottery, and the sun exploding; all at the exact same time.
> So, please keep your hands inside the car at all times and
> enjoy the rest of your day here at...(insert amusement park
> here).
>
> In a trade Clear Channel get WKNR and Salem gets WMVX and
> some cash.
>
> Now Salem sells MVX to Infinity, they put JACK on 106.5 and
> alternative on 98.5 or 104.1.
>
> Infinity sells 92.3 to a mystery buyer.
>
> Salem buys 1260AM from ABC/Disney. Back in the real world,
> ABC/Disney is rumored to want to sell off the radio division
> of thier company (see DCRTV.com).


Interesting theories..but on Salem's Part why would they trade for WMVX 106.5 and not keep it..As far as 1260, They might as well keep 850 if they were going to go that route (buying 1260)
 
> It would give their salespeople a reason to get up in the
> morning..but would you run Jack with or without Jocks? I
> think Donnie has his talent under some sort of contracts,
> which he might have to honor to some degree..

When they flipped away from Oldies they did the all music no jock thing, during which I'm pretty sure that Fred Chenevy and crew still showed up at the station to put in some time and collect their checks. At least until Fred was snapped up by HBC-AM (best move they ever made).

Were it me, I would Jack with Jocks, but made sure the morning show connected with the community like HBC (and it grieves me to say this) is brilliant at doing. They're visible everywhere, even with that ad van they drag around town. If Q92 wants to compete with HBC, they need to understand the importance of community connection.

But then if it were me, Q92 would still be an oldies station. In the days before HLO's flip, I would have made them an FM talker, but that's another story.

> Of course, I've always considered Mix 94.1 a ''Jack by
> accident'' sort of format..some of the train wrecks I've
> heard on there will live in my memory forever..

I wish I had said that.
 
> Interesting theories..but on Salem's Part why would they
> trade for WMVX 106.5 and not keep it..As far as 1260, They
> might as well keep 850 if they were going to go that route
> (buying 1260)

In my fantasy I asumed that Salem would want to stay with AM, and would probably turn a profit with the selling of WMVX and cash recieved from the WKNR trade. When all is said and done, they would've basically sold WKNR and bought 1260.

Again this was complete fantasy. I saw somewhere further down this post about thinking outside the box, so I figured I'd see how far outside the box I could get ;)
 
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