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[317C50KW]

One thing that is surprising to me that's been left out of this frank discussion of 770 is the weirdness of its operators, past and present: Dad (Crawford Broadcasting) and Son (DJR whatever the heck it is). They're operating philosophy definitely marches to another drummer.

Nice to see Jack back. I hope I don't have start having those recurring nightmares about cueing up those T-SOYL tapes again!

 

[crbigband]

Again, I feel that many here are missing my point.

What standard stations there are across the country that are failing I have no knowledge. But, if they're operated with the same HANDICAPS as KAAM I think it's an oversimplification to blame the format and nothing else.

In Houston, KQUE was a $$$Cash Cow$$$. It had agency buys. Advertisers were clients for years - not weeks or months. And they were "Big Ticket" advertisers. Travel agencies, luxury auto dealerships, restaurants, national products, etc. It had the ALL of the 55+ crowd, as well as a "smattering" of every other demo.

Nobody (& I mean NOBODY) who has posted here can accurately predict that, with a level playing field (see previous post), whether or not a standards station could thrive - including me.

By and large, would most here agree that most consider the AM band for talk formats and FM for music formats?

I also submit that a primary reason talk radio does as well as it does is due to the personalities. Radio has always been about personalities. But many music format stations have gotten away from that. DJ's have become liner card readers. They're not nearly as autonomous as DJ's were from say 1954-1975. When people here post about radio gone by, they're always talking about this DJ or that DJ, seldom is format mentioned. In all radio - PERSONALITY is key. Just ask Ron Chapman.

The reason why KAAM has any listeners at all is BECAUSE of the format. Little1's points regarding McCoy are well taken. And he's the only major personality on the station now - he's seen to that. Except for Bockleman, the others are kept on a very tight leash. I know, I was there.

KAAM is exclusively infomercials on the weekends and now those infomercials are encroaching on the middays. How do you think an FM in this market would fare if they did likewise?

They had one sales person the whole time I was there. ONE. And she was so handicapped by the Crawford methodology that it was hard to sign new clients in the first place.

Then there's the sports. High School football, college football & basketball have further alienated listeners. Can you imagine KLUV doing something similar? Of course NOT!

And the signal itself. Daytime it's ok in most parts of Dallas east of 35. But you're definitely challenged at night. And day or night, good luck hearing the signal in Ft. Worth.

Overall, KAAM isn't advertiser- or listener-friendly anymore, due to poor ownership and management.

But, don't blame the format.

 

[jbishop]

Thank you 317c50kw it's good to be remembered. And yes I too remember those moyl tapes with a certain amount of shall we say #$&@!
Getting back to the question I put to txchipx , I laid out the problem and I really want to know at what point do you as an operator do you say you had better do soming different than the same old same old and it was your call what would you do?I promise I want steal your idea.

Because I've been around since Marconi I can remeber when we a tough time getting buys for aor and urban let alone spanish language.Based on what txchipk says classic rock should be in trouble and oldies should be dead. If you were 15 in 1967 your are now 58 and nobody should want your dollars so why place a buy on KLUV or a KZPS. Buzz Bennnet years ago was talking about how age related demos only told a small part of the answer. Buzz believed more in life style programming.

I've worked with a lot of sales people in a lot of formats and can tell you that most of them are lazy.Also no one commented on what little Ken Jones is able to do or for that matter Ranch in Ft.Worth? So once again when all the easy formats are full what do you ?

 

[little1]

Again, I feel that many here are missing my point.

We're not missing it, we're just not agreeing with it.

In Houston, KQUE was a $$$Cash Cow$$$. It had agency buys. Advertisers were clients for years - not weeks or months. And they were "Big Ticket" advertisers. Travel agencies, luxury auto dealerships, restaurants, national products, etc. It had the ALL of the 55+ crowd, as well as a "smattering" of every other demo.

And that as 20 or 30 years ago. 30 0Years ago KVIl was dominating with 10+ shares. Now the top station is lucky to get a 5. There's just that much more competition.

Nobody (& I mean NOBODY) who has posted here can accurately predict that, with a level playing field (see previous post), whether or not a standards station could thrive - including me.

Agreed. But we can also look at the number of standards stations that are thriving and extrapolate data. Oh wait, that's right, standards stations aren't thriving. Extrapolate failure into the future and what do you get?

. In all radio - PERSONALITY is key. Just ask Ron Chapman.

Same Ron Chapman who's current station is getting killed in the ratings? That Ron Chapman?

 

[little1]

.Based on what txchipk says classic rock should be in trouble and oldies should be dead. If you were 15 in 1967 your are now 58 and nobody should want your dollars so why place a buy on KLUV or a KZPS.

Have you listened to KZPS lately? The music mix is nothing like the days when you roamed the halls of 15851 Dallas Parkway.
Sure they're still playing Jimi, but there's also a ton of Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, Police, etc...If you were 5 in 1967, you're now 48, and still in that 25-54 wheelhouse. Which is why their playlist is much more late 70's oriented than the typical 'old school' classic rock ideal (Beatles, Stones, Jimi, Zep,etc)

 

[jbishop]

Yes KZPS has updated and expanded its' music mix . The same can be done with an adult standrds station by focusing remakes and covers. Every year dozens of new versions of the songs are done and I'm not just talking about Michael Bubble . Just a few years ago even Queen Latifa did a cd of standards. When are we going to realize that the audience for all formats is better served by staying focused on the music and not on just what has been done in the past. Maybe it is time to work for the BBC or CBC.

 

[charles123]

Yes KZPS has updated and expanded its' music mix . The same can be done with an adult standrds station by focusing remakes and covers. Every year dozens of new versions of the songs are done and I'm not just talking about Michael Bubble . Just a few years ago even Queen Latifa did a cd of standards. When are we going to realize that the audience for all formats is better served by staying focused on the music and not on just what has been done in the past. Maybe it is time to work for the BBC or CBC.

It's still the same music they've been playing

 

[jd]

Have you listened to KZPS lately? The music mix is nothing like the days when you roamed the halls of 15851 Dallas Parkway.

Granted the music has evolved, but the problem I have with KZPS is what they don't do. They need to go a little deeper with the music, not necessarily a lot, and they need put additional effort into day-parting. Moreover the station needs to promote what they're doing in other day-parts throughout the day. Special programming, "lost" tracks or whatever can be done in non-critical day-parts but it should be talked about often outside those times to give a hipper feel to the station. I heard a jock today going into a stopset with a promo about what was coming up next musically. It went like this, "a classic from Eric, also known at time as Derek and the Dominoes." Well, duh, what do you think they played?

One more thing, related to the supposed "hip factor," why is it that we still hear a lot of Classic Rock personalities who have voices that sound like they've been honed with unfiltered Camels and Jack Daniels? Aren't we over that yet?

 

[little1]

Granted the music has evolved, but the problem I have with KZPS is what they don't do. They need to go a little deeper with the music, not necessarily a lot, and they need put additional effort into day-parting. Moreover the station needs to promote what they're doing in other day-parts throughout the day. Special programming, "lost" tracks or whatever can be done in non-critical day-parts but it should be talked about often outside those times to give a hipper feel to the station.

Totally disagree. They're in the top 10 6+ with a 3.6, they're in the top 8 in cume, they're doing very well doing exactly what they're doing.
I'd bet that people like you, that think they need to get hipper, play more deep cuts, etc, also listen WAY more than your average listener. You know why the average listener isn't sick of Layla? Because they only listen a couple of hours a week and haven't heard it 18 million times, like everybody in radio has. (They'e only heard it 6.5 million times). If they weren't doing well you might have a point, but they're a force to be reckoned with 25-54.

 

[crbigband]

Little1 proves my point. "KVIL in the old days gets a 10, and nowadays the top station is lucky to get a 5 because there's that much more competition."

With a limited number of formats those top stations are splitting an every-decreasing pie. Why should listeners listen to one station over another if the other stations are playing the same music?

The fastest growing demo is 55+. As people get older their tastes change. It's logical that their taste in music will change/refine at well. These people have independent discretionary income. Income that isn't necessarily tied up directly with a rising or falling U.S. economy. More and more of these people are tuning radio out and going to the internet or satellite radio because commercial radio leaves them no choice.

To think that just one Adult Standards station in this market has no chance to succeed if given a level playing field - properly promoted with an aggressive sales strategy - is simply obtuse. At any rate, it hasn't been tried, so there's no way of predicting failure or success.

 

[jd]

I'd bet that people like you, that think they need to get hipper, play more deep cuts, etc, also listen WAY more than your average listener.

I don't disagree about their success. But read a little closer and you'll see that I was suggesting ways to make it better, ensuring that they stay fresh and exciting and that they continue to get good ratings. You'll also note that I didn't suggest "deep cuts." I believe it can be made more interesting in their presentation and that doesn't mean that the music they're playing is wrong, it just needs a little kick now and then. It's the feel of the station that I have a problem with, and despite the numbers I don't think they're at the top of their game.

Your observations about me are way off base. I'll admit that my statement about the "hip factor" was perhaps a little provocative, in that I should have emphasized the need for more self-promotion and listener involvement (or, interest, if you will). I already addressed the "deep cuts" issue but you'll recall I also suggested more attention to day-parting of the music. Finally, you're also wrong about my listening habits; I mainly switch between KXT, KPLX, KKDA 730, WRR and KDMX. KZPS is way down the list for me. When I'm not checking those stations out I listen to a serious collection of blues. And by the way, you and I are probably about the same age.

 

[lomax]

Sure..FM with full market coverage always wins...Take KLUV, or KVIL... signal that I can pick up from Weatherford to Sherman... Move them to AM and see what happens. Of course they would be obliterated. Kqee in Houston may have been fm and therein was its success...it never had enough support from staffers or houston listeners to be able to create a successful follow through on an am...no former staffer convincing enough to a manager or owner to take the reins and create a success story. When I'm in houston, I feel the void...major market..no standards format...look forward to just north of huntsville and the big kaam 770 frequency

 

[little1]

With a limited number of formats those top stations are splitting an every-decreasing pie. Why should listeners listen to one station over another if the other stations are playing the same music?

But there are few if any stations in this town actually playing 'the same' music. MAYBE KISS and i93, but KPLX and KSCS have different mixes, and The Ranch, Range, etc are vastly different from those 2. Sure there's a lot of stations playing 'rock' music, and some songs might show up on more than 1, but the Eagle, Edge, KZPS, Jack, etc are all different. To say stations are playing the same music is simplistic at best, naive and unrealistic...

The fastest growing demo is 55+. As people get older their tastes change. It's logical that their taste in music will change/refine at well

.Anything to back this up other than feelings? Talk radio generally gets more popular with old people as they can't find the music they like, but in decades in this industry, I have yet to see anything, research, reports, anecdotes, anything, that says mass amounts of people are suddenly going to develop a taste for a style of music thatthey'd shown nointerest in for the preceding 60 years.

These people have independent discretionary income. Income that isn't necessarily tied up directly with a rising or falling U.S. economy.

And there are other methods besides radio, methods that may be more cost efficient, to reach those people.

To think that just one Adult Standards station in this market has no chance to succeed if given a level playing field - properly promoted with an aggressive sales strategy - is simply obtuse. At any rate, it hasn't been tried, so there's no way of predicting failure or success.

The problem that you seem to be obtuse about is getting that level playing field. Big stick FM's are, for the most part, driven by 25-54 year old ratings. Because that is the biggest pie, and even getting a smaller slice of that pie means more money than having a big ol'chunk of the 55+ audience pie.

Look at CBS. They feel like they can be more successful being the 3rd sports station (and the 10th spoken word station) than being the adults standard station.

 

[little1]

Your observations about me are way off base. I'll admit that my statement about the "hip factor" was perhaps a little provocative, in that I should have emphasized the need for more self-promotion and listener involvement (or, interest, if you will). I already addressed the "deep cuts" issue but you'll recall I also suggested more attention to day-parting of the music. Finally, you're also wrong about my listening habits; I mainly switch between KXT, KPLX, KKDA 730, WRR and KDMX. KZPS is way down the list for me. When I'm not checking those stations out I listen to a serious collection of blues. And by the way, you and I are probably about the same age.

My aplogies then.
Just that for a long time, including some time spent at KZPS, when I've heard the 'you need to play more deep cuts/album tracks/insert-term-here, the person usually listens WAY more than that partiucular stations avg TSL. And then it becomes the argument- do you program for the heavy user, the light user, or in between? Does Channel 4 REALLY need news at 6, 9 and 10? Or do they know that they have turnover? A heavy watcher might question why they have to keep repeating stories, but s smart news/program director knows how to find a middle ground...

 

[Chuck]

I think it is interesting that for a "dead format" this has had well over 2200 views in less than a week. I think I detect a pulse...

Or maybe people on this forum just like to argue.

Take your pick.

 

[jbishop]

Hey Chuck I think the format has a pulse and there has never been an agrument that I did want to be in! And can we really call KAAM an adult standards station?

 

[Chuck]

And can we really call KAAM an adult standards station?

That is an interesting question. I tend to think it is close to being an adult standards station, but in reality, it is neither fish nor fowl. It is simply KAAM.

Perhaps the whole problem is our tendency to put labels on everything. I never really thought my own station was adult standards either, but the label got stuck on it by Arbitron, and a multitude of search engines and radio directories who insist on pigeon-holing everything. If you want to be listed, you have to fit in one of their predetermined categories.

I think a lot of people have a negative knee-jerk reaction when you say "Adult Standards." They think of Geratol, denture cement and nursing homes. It doesn't have to be that way, although you probably will get your share of mature listeners. There are actually a lot of younger people (in their 30's and 40's) who think that lounge music is cool. RED in St. Louis tried to appeal to that market but eventually failed. I'm sure that someone else will fill us in on the specifics, but I listened to it for a week or so when I was visiting St. Louis a few years back. It was an interesting concept, but they didn't quite get it to sound right. To be honest, I haven’t heard many Standards stations that I thought were worth the bandwidth they occupied. Eventually though, someone will figure it out. I’ll know it when I hear it….

 

[crbigband]

There are those who have posted here who agree with me (more or less). And there are those who disagree. It's apparent to me that I'll never sway the little1's & the lomax's so I'm too tired to try.

Today marks my 1 year anniversary of my final jettison from KAAM. Considering the midday infomercials (and I have no doubt, with more to come) I'm glad to be gone. I'm happy to be in the August group of Crawford/McCoy KAAM Hall of Fame Rejects (Jack Bishop, Linda Martin, Jack Carlisle, Tori Logan, Chuck Brinkman, Rob Martinez, Andy McCollum, etc.) Can Mary Rose & Jack Davis be far behind?

If McCoy perceives them as a threat to his ever-shrinking fiefdom - it's just a matter of time.

I'm happy to be on KZQX. I'm treated with respect by management and listeners alike. They like what I do (even if it's not little1's cup of tea). And we're attracting new listeners - and more importantly - new sponsors all the time. We're on to something in east Texas.

Or maybe not. But we're sure having a lot of fun. After all, it's ONLY radio. At least that what McCoy used to tell me - all the time. But like so many other instances, it was a sentiment he preached but seldom practiced.

As far as that KAAM apologist (lomax) is concerned: You seem to be the only one here who has anything good to say about KAAM. You just keep listening to KAAM all the way to Buffalo on your twice weekly trips to Houston - you'll have the cleanest colon in North Texas!

BTW, your KQUE slams are not entirely accurate. There was never any comparable signal to 102.9 in which to install the format. Come to think of it, there wouldn't have been up here in North Texas either without Jack Sellmeyer, who was instrumental in bringing the 620 Witchita Falls signal to North Texas.

And then what did he, McCoy and the rest of the major investors do after three years of childish bickering and political backstabbing behind the scenes?

They sold the station to Disney, took their millions and let the rest of the staff, sales, air and office, that put their hearts, souls & talents into 620, unemployed and twisting in the wind. And those poor little listeners of 1310 who donated money to bring the station back - (what was it, $30K?). Three years of radio and then - poof! - gone with the wind.

Several investors became millionaires. I sleep better every night knowing that through wise investing (and screwing people over), many of those investors don't have the regular bills of us mere mortals.

A rotten crowd - rotten to the core. Beam me up, Scotty!

 

[lomax]

It would appear to me that those who forwarded funds for the moving of 620 to Dallas and to continue the KAAM format exposed their assets to great risk. In this rare instance their efforts were rewarded...and no small thanks to all personalities who entertained us over the years and I'm sure were reasonably compensated..Now..with 70 signals in the market..anyone displaced..need only create a business plan, bring a resume and convince a business person that their idea can make money in this distressed economy...plus its always fun having additional listening options..ie: how many country stations do we need...ranch 95.9 does a nice job covering tarrant county... with many of us older listeners..perhaps its time for a change there.

 

[lomax]

One additional note...I heard Chuck Brinkman do the Oldies show last night..he's been there for a number of years...Tori Logan was filling in on middays a couple of months ago so she's probably there on a part time basis, but on the team since the 620 days.. Folks gravitate to a place of employment they enjoy, otherwise they send out resumes and move elswhere. I enjoyed Jack Bishop....he was there at 1310, 620 and came back for 770....I'll bet he must have appreciated the music and the people he worked with. Cary's big band show was fun....and not only did 620 sound like a big family...he joined up with the same basic group of folks at 770 and stayed there quite a while....probably a heckuva great place to work.