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Plans for FM/TV atop the new Freedom Tower?
- Thread starter HHH
- Start date
Presentations and sales pitches have been made to the FM and TV players. It's assumed that the FM's that were on the WTC due to short spacing will go back, but that it'll be cost-prohibitive to TV to warrant a whole new buildout in 2013, and the other FM's that are fully spaced at Empire won't be able to make the move downtown.
Let's see what happens when One57 and 432 Park top out in a few years...
Line of sight will be great from this new site, I would love to see a bunch of signals move there.
I remember KTU had a better signal down in Toms River when they were on the WTC...
How much ERP would a signal from the Freedom Tower at 1776'
have to be to equal the coverage from the ESB...my guess would be about 4500 watts.
I remember KTU had a better signal down in Toms River when they were on the WTC...
How much ERP would a signal from the Freedom Tower at 1776'
have to be to equal the coverage from the ESB...my guess would be about 4500 watts.
The master antenna center of radiation will be other than 1776 feet, but...
From the FCC:
Class B facilities for Equivalency Determination:
Reference ERP = 50.000 kW @ HAAT = 150.0 meters
F(50,50) 60 dBu protected contour at 52.2 km distance
Equivalent ERP (rounded per 47 CFR 73.212)
Unrounded ERP = 2.845 kW @ 541.3 meters HAAT
Someone in NYC may wish to correct me, but I would guess that for penetrating into Manhattan office towers, WFUV might have the best deal going, high power straight through the windows.
From the FCC:
Class B facilities for Equivalency Determination:
Reference ERP = 50.000 kW @ HAAT = 150.0 meters
F(50,50) 60 dBu protected contour at 52.2 km distance
Equivalent ERP (rounded per 47 CFR 73.212)
Unrounded ERP = 2.845 kW @ 541.3 meters HAAT
Someone in NYC may wish to correct me, but I would guess that for penetrating into Manhattan office towers, WFUV might have the best deal going, high power straight through the windows.
Not really. With WFUV's HAAT, they are shooting into the side of the buildings. With the NYC skyscrapers being miles deep, they only get into the first row. That's why they've put up various boosters over the years. The trick in NYC is to be above all of the buildings as much as possible, to "see" them all. WFUV is broadside of a miles thick "concrete and steel cliff".
I assume WFUV can't move to Empire or WTC or they'd have done so long ago, right? Their booster(s) help a little but I can't get their HD signal in midtown. Too bad since I like The Alternate Side carried on their HD3 which might just be the only live & local HD station in the city.
They also put a crappy signal to the west where the FM starts picket fencing as soon as you get over the GWB heading into NJ. The HD signal is also unusable at that point which is what, maybe 5 miles away from their transmitter? Sad.
They also put a crappy signal to the west where the FM starts picket fencing as soon as you get over the GWB heading into NJ. The HD signal is also unusable at that point which is what, maybe 5 miles away from their transmitter? Sad.
Old WTC HAAT was something like 1520 feet... I think, just going on what I recall off the top of my head. It wasn't a whole lot more than Empire, the master antenna was rather low on the tower. Which was part of the signal problem close in, the roof blocked the radiation from the master antenna.
WFUV is hemmed in by WBJB, WMSJ, WHYY and about a million other non-comms that have popped up since it signed on.
They are highly directional away from the west, that's your "crappy signal". Drive to New Haven and it comes in loud and clear all the way up 95.
Have you tried 91.5 for the hours that the Alternate Side is on? They carry it all morning until whatever happens at noon.
WFUV is hemmed in by WBJB, WMSJ, WHYY and about a million other non-comms that have popped up since it signed on.
They are highly directional away from the west, that's your "crappy signal". Drive to New Haven and it comes in loud and clear all the way up 95.
Have you tried 91.5 for the hours that the Alternate Side is on? They carry it all morning until whatever happens at noon.
Would 1WTC make a good aux site? I hope that there will never be a need for auxiliary sites again.
WKTU when on the old WTC was super strong. Never understood why they swapped with 97.1 (which is also strong but on the ESB) with 103.5 back in 1988. Of course I live near downtown Brooklyn and I was able to see the old WTC outside my kitchen window. I can even see the new WTC outside my kitchen window. Maybe that is why 103.5 was so strong.
The HAAT from the old WTC was between 1350 and 1450 ft depending on the setup. WFUV already is pulling in its signal to the south so if they moved to the ESB or WTC they would have to go more directional. I suspect that they own their current tower site in the Bronx so cost may also be a factor.
And WPRB was barely listenable north of the Brunswicks thanks to KTU going HD. WPRB's general manager said that he was glad that WPRB could "fight Clear Channel" when I went to the WPRB studios personally to complain about the IBUZ. They view HD radio as mutually assured destruction.d21ofnj said:
d21ofnj said:
And yet I can hear KTU in SE PA on the turnpike and around Willow Grove pretty well.
There's no way WFUV could move that far south, no matter what DA they're using. So many non-comms have cropped up around them using their current signal contours. It is what it is, and for what it is, it isn't bad. You have 90.5's all over the place, and 90.9 in Philly, just to name a few.
As for WPRB/WKTU... shows how stupid "HD" really is. It never should have been allowed to spill over on to your neighbor. It's the radio equivalent of raking 1/2 your leaves on the neighbors yard. Should have been designed to fit into the SCA region of the carrier. But everyone was greedy, and wanted their SCA's and IBOC at the same time.
As for AM IBOC, never should have happened. Disaster from the start.
Nick said:
In the case of 103.3/103.5 why not use only one sideband for each, rather than both...103.3 can send its HD over 103.1 and 103.5 can use 103.7 for it's HD. You only need one sideband theoretically for the HD to work ok I think. Or maybe both stations can limit the 2nd sideband in the direction of it's neighboring adjacent station.
I remember not long ago I drove around downtown Princeton, across from Princeton University and I was able to hear KTU, quite a bit of interference but still listenable and not too bad being less than 3 miles from PRB. Also around that time, I was having trouble keeping an HD lock on 103.3 or 103.5 in East Brunswick where Route 18 meets the Turnpike...
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