Play All The Oldies

[Thomps2525]

In 1998, Lauryn Hill had a big hit with a song titled Doo Wop...and it was not a doo-wop song. Explain that one!

The History Of Rock website (history-of-rock.com) describes "doo-wop" as "a form of R&B-based harmony vocalizing using phonetic or nonsense syllables (like a repeated 'doo-wop') for rhythm and intricate harmonic arrangements." That's a very vague definition though; it would include certain versions of Mairzy Doats and Aba Daba Honeymoon.

 

[oldies76]

In 1998, Lauryn Hill had a big hit with a song titled Doo Wop...and it was not a doo-wop song. Explain that one!

And all she says in that #1 song, is "That thing, That thing, that thing"...........

 

[landtuna]

I don't believe that there IS a clear definition of Doo Wop music.

It's kinda like porn. I know it when I hear it. ;D

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister Fonz and Mister landtuna, if doo-wop, by definition, has a lot of "ooh-oohs" in the background, then the long version of Donna Summer's Love To Love You Baby could be doo-wop and porn.

 

[hornet61]

I have Ring-A-Ling---and every time I mention the title, I start thinking of Lily Tomlin's "Ernestine" character on Laugh-In: "One ringy-dingy...two ringy-dingies..."---on a 1987 CD titled Classic Old & Gold (Laurie 3CD100). It also includes Denise, Hushabye, A Teenager In Love, the Belmonts' Tell Me Why, the Passions' Just To Be With You, and Tear Drops Follow Me by the Del Satins. There ya go!

By the way, XM Satellite Radio Channel 5, which is known as "'50s On 5" but plays songs from 1960-63 along with the '50s hits, plays quite a few low-charting and non-charting dooi-wop songs. Yesterday I heard Oh Rose Marie by the Fascinators!

The Carlo and Belmonts are the most underrated group and producers..when Dion dumped them in 1960..they started their own label Sabrina ..later changed to Sabina and had some great hits...they used fledgling producers/songwriters Ernie Maresca and gary granahan... a real coup for Doo-Wop stations is to play The belmonts backing Pete Barin on "So Wrong". and "Shu-Bop" by Dion with the Belmonts. Another good one by the facinators is "Chapel Bells".

Hate to correct you....but...the Belmonts didn't back Dion of Shu Bop. What Dion did was use the same recording equipment when recording the album. That's a huge problem with most stations play Doo Wop, they only play the hits, they don't give people a musical education AND entertain them at the same time. If left up to station owners, they will only play the hits, if you want to hear great collectors cuts then listen to stations...Internet or Terrestrial...whose shows are hosted by collectors. Listen to this weeks Doo Wop Vault, and checkout the archives too.
www.doowopvault1950s.podomatic.com

If I have mis-stated i want to be corrected, you won't hurt my feelings..I do alot of this from memory,and it's a 66 year old brain....I have listened to your archives many a time, and we are pretty much in sync about what doo-wop is..albeit I did like land tuna's comment "it's like porn i know it when I see it"
I think I even have the record label chronology backwards on my comments..you are correct the only good/real doo-wop is on the net, and you have one of the better stations....When the term Doo-wop was retro fit to every R&B group recording from 1950 forward I gave up trying to explain my definition of Doo-Wop after all 5,000 PD's can't be wrong.I still stick to my guns the SOME Facinators are Doo-Wop NONE of the Platters are, and if some folks don't get that, there's no explaining to them..

 

[TheFonz]

NONE of the Platters are, and if some folks don't get that, there's no explaining to them..

See, now you've started a whole new debate. Before the Platters hit with "Only You" on Mercury, they made a lot of recordings for the Federal label out of Cincinnati (including the original version of "Only You"). Those songs were DEFINITLY Doo Wop.

 

[landtuna]

Before the Platters hit with "Only You" on Mercury, they made a lot of recordings for the Federal label out of Cincinnati (including the original version of "Only You"). Those songs were DEFINITLY Doo Wop.

I've been through every Platters entry of "Only You" on Youtube but cannot find a version that is Doo Wop or different than their big hit of the mid-50's.

Do you have a source for the DW version?

 

[hornet61]

IMO...the platters are Pop ,at best R&B.again i say IMO

Berry Gordy created a label of artists that was always intended for the white cross-over market...then came Stax-volt that was pure Soul....eventually the tempts and marvin gaye did some stuff that leaned more toward Soul... my point because Motown was primarily black artists that didn't make them Soul they were Pop by design.the platters were black and a group that doesn't make them Doo-Wop...by my definition any way..if you want to take the retro-fit route then they are Doo-Wop ..
when i say by my definition or IMO, I mean If I put together a Doo Wop Station the playlist would look more the following:

Jay and the Deltas - the bells are ringing
carollons - all the gangs knows
Eternals - babalu's wedding day
carlo - Ring-A-Ling
bop-chords - castles in the sky
vocaleers - Could you Adore me
rick and the Masters - I don't want you love
Parkway - Doreen
fantastics - there goes my love
capri's - Guardian Angel
here Am I Broken hearted -anyone of three other versions

here are the 4 J's......http://youtu.be/_9iFNicAnOc

 

[TheFonz]

Before the Platters hit with "Only You" on Mercury, they made a lot of recordings for the Federal label out of Cincinnati (including the original version of "Only You"). Those songs were DEFINITLY Doo Wop.

I've been through every Platters entry of "Only You" on Youtube but cannot find a version that is Doo Wop or different than their big hit of the mid-50's.

Do you have a source for the DW version?

Here's an Amazon.com link to a CD with the Federal cuts. Unfortunatly the CD is not linked to the player.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Fede...UTF8&qid=1360826182&sr=1-22&keywords=platters

 

[TheFonz]

Before the Platters hit with "Only You" on Mercury, they made a lot of recordings for the Federal label out of Cincinnati (including the original version of "Only You"). Those songs were DEFINITLY Doo Wop.

I've been through every Platters entry of "Only You" on Youtube but cannot find a version that is Doo Wop or different than their big hit of the mid-50's.

Do you have a source for the DW version?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7TaFeXtDM

 

[landtuna]

Before the Platters hit with "Only You" on Mercury, they made a lot of recordings for the Federal label out of Cincinnati (including the original version of "Only You"). Those songs were DEFINITLY Doo Wop.

I've been through every Platters entry of "Only You" on Youtube but cannot find a version that is Doo Wop or different than their big hit of the mid-50's.

Do you have a source for the DW version?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7TaFeXtDM

Thank you. I did listen to this one yesterday but it isn't Doo Wop either. Nothing but ordinary lead vocal and backup harmony - none of the uniqueness that makes a DW song.

If this is the best example of The Platter's "doo wop" music I'd have to agree with the earlier poster who stated they were not a Doo Wop group.

 

[TheFonz]

Thank you. I did listen to this one yesterday but it isn't Doo Wop either. Nothing but ordinary lead vocal and backup harmony - none of the uniqueness that makes a DW song.

If this is the best example of The Platter's "doo wop" music I'd have to agree with the earlier poster who stated they were not a Doo Wop group.

It seems like the discussion has moved from trying to define a Doo Wop SONG to trying to define a Doo Wop GROUP. So I must ask you.....................what is your definition of a Doo Wop GROUP?

 

[TheFonz]

I did listen to this one yesterday but it isn't Doo Wop either. Nothing but ordinary lead vocal and backup harmony - none of the uniqueness that makes a DW song.

What is the "uniqueness" the the Federal version lacks?

 

[landtuna]

It seems like the discussion has moved from trying to define a Doo Wop SONG to trying to define a Doo Wop GROUP. So I must ask you.....................what is your definition of a Doo Wop GROUP?

We were discussing DW songs, not groups, but an earlier poster made a claim that the Platters were not a DW group and someone else disagreed.

Unless a group produced only DW songs I would not call them a DW group. There probably were groups in the early 50's that specialized in DW and didn't do other genres but I'm not knowledgeable enough to identify them. The groups I listened to seemed to migrate from Doo Wop to Be-Bop and/or general pop music by the early 60's.

 

[landtuna]

I did listen to this one yesterday but it isn't Doo Wop either. Nothing but ordinary lead vocal and backup harmony - none of the uniqueness that makes a DW song.

What is the "uniqueness" the the Federal version lacks?

The closest definition of Doo Wop that I could find lists several unique components which define the music:

Big bass harmony (usually just one voice)
Lead tenor (sometimes falsetto)
"nonsense" rhythm sequences (like the "doo wop" sound that named the genre)
Intricate harmonies (my source likened it to a barbershop quartet type sound)

 

[TheFonz]

Unless a group produced only DW songs I would not call them a DW group.

The Spaniels recorded "Stormy Weather". The 5 Satins recorded "I'll Be Seeing You". The Flamingos recorded a full album of Pop songs. So these wouldn't be Doo Wop groups, right?

 

[TheFonz]

The closest definition of Doo Wop that I could find lists several unique components which define the music:

Big bass harmony (usually just one voice)
Lead tenor (sometimes falsetto)
"nonsense" rhythm sequences (like the "doo wop" sound that named the genre)
Intricate harmonies (my source likened it to a barbershop quartet type sound)

Well, the Federal cut contains 3 out of 4. And I'm not sure I agree with your source about "big bass harmony". As a very wise person once said...............I know a Doo Wop song when I hear one.

 

[unitron]

Before the Platters hit with "Only You" on Mercury, they made a lot of recordings for the Federal label out of Cincinnati (including the original version of "Only You"). Those songs were DEFINITLY Doo Wop.

I've been through every Platters entry of "Only You" on Youtube but cannot find a version that is Doo Wop or different than their big hit of the mid-50's.

Do you have a source for the DW version?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7TaFeXtDM

Close, but no cigar.

It shows more Doo-Wop influence than the later, best known version (and it's a fascinating find), but if it had been Doo-Wop there would have been a deep voiced guy coming in in the middle with a spoken part

"Darling, only you can make this change in me..." etc.

And Mary and Flo doing the doo wahs back there would have been more prominent.

Like the man said, you know it when you hear it.

 

[landtuna]

Unless a group produced only DW songs I would not call them a DW group.

The Spaniels recorded "Stormy Weather". The 5 Satins recorded "I'll Be Seeing You". The Flamingos recorded a full album of Pop songs. So these wouldn't be Doo Wop groups, right?

I'm not enough of a music historian to answer your question directly but will answer it this way. What kind of group would you call Peter, Paul & Mary? Folk, right? Because that is about all they ever sang. That's the analogy.

 

[TheFonz]

Unless a group produced only DW songs I would not call them a DW group.

I'm not enough of a music historian to answer your question directly but will answer it this way. What kind of group would you call Peter, Paul & Mary? Folk, right? Because that is about all they ever sang. That's the analogy.

In this post you said "about all". In your first post you said "only". About how many non-doo wop songs would a group have to record before they are considered a non-doo wop group?