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Play All The Oldies
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
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Thomps2525
Guest
Peter Paul & Mary were a folk-music trio...but would anyone consider I Dig Rock & Roll Music to be a folk song? I can think of several songs that were not folk songs but were recorded by so-called folk music groups. Similarly, not every song recorded by a doo-wop group was a doo-wop song. And we continue to refer to Rod Stewart and Paul McCartney as rock'n'roll artists even though they've recorded albums of adult standards. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I submit that "folk" and "doo-wop" and "rock'n'roll" are terms that describe and define a sound and not necessarily an artist or group.
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Thomps2525
Guest
This is the first time anyone has ever agreed with me! Golly gee, what did I do wrong?
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Thomps2525
Guest
If a spoken part by a deep-voiced guy is part of a doo-wop song, then what can we say about Mr. Bass Man by Johnny Cymbal & Ronnie Bright, Ten Commandments Of Love by Harvey Fuqua & the Moonglows...or, for that matter, Gallant Men by Senator Everett McKinley Dirksen? Maybe a doo-wop song needs more than just the deep voice. Yes, yes, I'm sure of it.
TheFonz said:
We're really splitting hairs here it seems to me. I posted what Wiki said but I assume not every attribute is in every DW song. Obviously, it is missing in "In The Still of the Night" yet I would call that a DW song although perhaps not the best example of one.
Mr. Bass Man is an excellent example of a DW song and, in fact, was intended to represent the essential DW genre.
Now.....since the definition doesn't seem to impress everyone it stands that the definition as given in Wiki may be incomplete and, as such, I am done discussing. This is America so you believe what you want. ;D
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Thomps2525
Guest
I like the comment about "I know a doo-wop song when I hear one." That says it best.
Now that we have that settled, do I dare ask why country stations in 1974 played I Can Help and Back Home Again? I know a country song when I hear one, and those songs were not country...and yet they both topped the country chart! Go figure!
Maybe we shouldn't get started on this...
Now that we have that settled, do I dare ask why country stations in 1974 played I Can Help and Back Home Again? I know a country song when I hear one, and those songs were not country...and yet they both topped the country chart! Go figure!
Maybe we shouldn't get started on this...
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hornet61
Guest
LARadioRewind said:I like the comment about "I know a doo-wop song when I hear one." That says it best.
Now that we have that settled, do I dare ask why country stations in 1974 played I Can Help and Back Home Again? I know a country song when I hear one, and those songs were not country...and yet they both topped the country chart! Go figure!
Maybe we shouldn't get started on this...
I believe Elvis early RCA stuff went #1 on the Country, R&b and Pop charts at the same time...
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Thomps2525
Guest
If we in 2013 have a hard time defining "doo wop" and "rock'n'roll," think of the difficulty of defining "ryhthm & blues" in the 1940s when five Bing Crosby songs made the r&b top ten: White Christmas (which went to number one in 1942), I'll Be Home For Christmas, Sunday Monday Or Always, Pistol Packin' Mama (with the Andrews Sisters) and Don't Fence Me In (with the Andrews Sisters). And in the late 1950s, Frankie Avalon's De De Dinah, Ginger Bread, Venus, Bobby Sox To Stockings and Why all made the r&b chart, as did Tiger by Fabian. Bobby Darin had six r&b chart hits, including the number-one Splish Splash. Perry Como and Gene Autry, however, did not have any r&b hits. Hey, the r&b chart had to maintain some integrity!
That seems like an anomoly in today's radio trade, which lives and dies by research. You might expect that playing "all of them" would not do well in "testing". But it's welcomed news.Silkie said:
jfrancispastirchak said:
The fact that WMID is 22nd in 25-54 in a market with 24 commercial stations "home to the market" sort of explains the results of doing that. It wouldn't survive in a more agency driven ad market.
The market revenue is almost all local, so the station is able to take out just over $40 k a month, which is not bad for an 890 watt high-band AM.
I wanted to give a definition of what doo wop really is. First of all, doo wop is not even the accurate term. The accurate terms are either group records or group harmony records. A real group record is usually either four or five part harmony. Most group records are all male even though the Chantels and Tuneweavers are two exceptions. Under this definition, the Platters are not even a group harmony group because they sung in unison and not in harmony. The first group era started in the early 50s with songs like Crying In The Chapel by the Orioles. There was a group record resurgence that lasted from 1960-63. The Earls made a 1964 group record called I Believe which was about the end for group records unless you count I Do by the Marvelows. The Crests reformed as the Brooklyn Bridge and made a few very late group records in 1968-69 such as Worst That Could Happen, Welcome Me Love and Blessed Is The Rain. May I by Bill Deal And The Rhondels was a big New York hit in 1969 because it sounded like a group record but, it wasn't. It was a Carolina beach record.
The median age for fans of group records is ten years older than the fans of regular 1955-1971 oldies. Most group harmony fans think music ended with the English Invasion in 1964. The average age of a typical group harmony fan today is about 70. There used to be a great market for selling rare group records that commanded a lot of money. That market is gone now because most of those collectors either sold their collections or are dead.
I did a group harmony show on a 50,000 watt full time station with a huge night signal. I love group records but, group harmony music today has little validity to anyone who doesn't drink prune juice regularly.
WMTR, Morristown, N. J., does a live group show every night but, as a suburban A. M., their ratings are low and the show makes no money. The station is just filling up time.
The median age for fans of group records is ten years older than the fans of regular 1955-1971 oldies. Most group harmony fans think music ended with the English Invasion in 1964. The average age of a typical group harmony fan today is about 70. There used to be a great market for selling rare group records that commanded a lot of money. That market is gone now because most of those collectors either sold their collections or are dead.
I did a group harmony show on a 50,000 watt full time station with a huge night signal. I love group records but, group harmony music today has little validity to anyone who doesn't drink prune juice regularly.
WMTR, Morristown, N. J., does a live group show every night but, as a suburban A. M., their ratings are low and the show makes no money. The station is just filling up time.
RADIO TRUTH said:
By your definition then wouldn't a barbershop quartet be considered "group harmony" and thus, Doo-Wop?
We all know it is a very distinctive sound, as are most genuine Doo-Wop songs.
Nope - there is more than the harmony attribute to describe Doo....er, I mean "group harmony".
And, much like one of its most formidable, though stylistically different successors, MOTOWN, DooWop sounds "urban".landtuna said:
jfrancispastirchak said:
You are absolutely correct and I wonder why no one has mentioned this before (or maybe I missed it).
Doo-Wop was possibly the "first" urban sound to become popular outside the Black community. Most of the groups, originally at least, were composed of Black males. Later on some added females and then some White groups became popular as well.
The Doo-Wop sound was separate and distinct from the R&B songs that were covered by White artists as the first generation of Rock n Roll (or Be-bop as it was first called).
It is obvious that barbershop quartets aren't in the group harmony category. Barbershop quartet music predates the group harmony era. You are correct that attitude does play a major factor in group records but, how do you account for the amount of 30s and 40s pop standards that became major group hits such as Blue Moon, Heartaches, You Belong To Me, There's A Moon Out Tonight and various others. Pop standards made into group records didn't have that much attitude. My definition for group records was very basic for a novice. The type of vocal arrangements was another factor in determining if a record was a group record. As far as the term doo wop goes, it wasn't the original term for the music. The first use of the word doo wop was in 1961 which was in the era of group records resurgence. This music has been around since the early 50s and was always known as group or group harmony records to fans of the music. When the term doo wop came along, it trivialized the music.
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