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Play All The Oldies

TheFonz said:
I have a different take on that. I hated The Singing Nun back in the day. But if I heard it once every couple of weeks today, it wouldn't bother me a bit. And if it meant one less play of "Crimson And Clover", that would be even better!

The funny thing about The Singing Nun and a couple of other foreign language songs is, even after all these years and the fact that I didn't speak French, Japanese or German back then, I can still sing those songs phonically.

But "Volare" - an instant button pusher as well. :mad:
 
These threads have been fun to watch..I just can't relate to some who continuously spouts statistics and terms and research banter..At some point radio has got to be about heart,passion,relating to and exciting a listener and making that one to one connection that has always set radio apart from some other forms of commuication..Research is all well & good but you can overthink things to the point of absurdity..You can take any song,any aircheck or any presentation and find fault with it and something positve about it.. This is something to be said for just simply having a feel and following your gut in radio. This is not a personal attack on anyone and i know I'm about to be doubleteamed but so be it..
 
allenv said:
These threads have been fun to watch..I just can't relate to some who continuously spouts statistics and terms and research banter..At some point radio has got to be about heart,passion,relating to and exciting a listener and making that one to one connection that has always set radio apart from some other forms of commuication..Research is all well & good but you can overthink things to the point of absurdity..You can take any song,any aircheck or any presentation and find fault with it and something positve about it.. This is something to be said for just simply having a feel and following your gut in radio. This is not a personal attack on anyone and i know I'm about to be doubleteamed but so be it..

Research is simply a tool. It helps you find the right direction. Alone, it is of no value. Combined with a good staff, a good programmer and a decent distribution system for content, it helps you win.

"Research" is just a term that means "getting feedback from your listeners". I have never believe that there is such a thing as "getting too much feedback" yet in this group we see frequent posts about stations being "over researched". I don't get that. It means it is a bad thing to consult with your listeners?

Those of us with tools like MScores can see how very damaging a bad song, a newscast without relevant content or a bad morning show bit can be, instantaneously.

While the PPM has made many stations too methodology-sensitive and that obsession with mechanics has hurt the feel and listenability of some stations, all that means is that you have someone tweaking the carburetor of a car with no wheels.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a researched music station with a good PD be beaten by an unresearched one. Not only does the car need wheels, it needs tires on them.
 
DavidEduardo said:
allenv said:
These threads have been fun to watch..I just can't relate to some who continuously spouts statistics and terms and research banter..At some point radio has got to be about heart,passion,relating to and exciting a listener and making that one to one connection that has always set radio apart from some other forms of commuication..Research is all well & good but you can overthink things to the point of absurdity..You can take any song,any aircheck or any presentation and find fault with it and something positve about it.. This is something to be said for just simply having a feel and following your gut in radio. This is not a personal attack on anyone and i know I'm about to be doubleteamed but so be it..

Research is simply a tool. It helps you find the right direction. Alone, it is of no value. Combined with a good staff, a good programmer and a decent distribution system for content, it helps you win.

"Research" is just a term that means "getting feedback from your listeners". I have never believe that there is such a thing as "getting too much feedback" yet in this group we see frequent posts about stations being "over researched". I don't get that. It means it is a bad thing to consult with your listeners?

Those of us with tools like MScores can see how very damaging a bad song, a newscast without relevant content or a bad morning show bit can be, instantaneously.

While the PPM has made many stations too methodology-sensitive and that obsession with mechanics has hurt the feel and listenability of some stations, all that means is that you have someone tweaking the carburetor of a car with no wheels.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a researched music station with a good PD be beaten by an unresearched one. Not only does the car need wheels, it needs tires on them.




Eduardo....you said radio stations "get feedback from their listeners"....maybe in the land of OZ, but not here. A Columbia University study proved that the big Corporate Labels along with the Corporate owned stations mold the taste of the zombie public who just follows along.


A group of 14,000 people were given access to a web site where they could download and rate it's "quality". The ratings, however, were rigged, for example, one band was ranked 26 out of 48 in terms of quality. But the study showed that when a lot of people download a song, more people continued to download it, whereas when there were few initial downloads, the song became one of the least downloaded in the study.

The study shows, and the sociology professors at Columbia concluded, that people make their musical choices based on popularity and not quality. It turns out that when you let people know what other people think...or tell them the lie that this is what people think, just to draw attention to an artist which increases record sales, the popular things become more popular...said Columbia sociology professor Duncan Watts.

So as I have been saying for years on this board, and the study proves it's true, the crap that is played today isn't popular because it is quality, because people want to hear it, it is force fed, they are molding the taste of the public. If the crap that is played is all the public hears, and is also told it's popular, the public, through the power of suggestion, will follow.
 
I totally agree...The fact is there are still alot of people listening to radio and if there is one station doing the format you like and one only and radio is still your main source of music you have no where else to go..You can complain but some stations have a monopoly on a format..Competition breeds creativity..Its like being the only lemonade stand in the neighborhood..Nobody is pushing you to make your lemonade better...
 
doowopvault said:
Eduardo....you said radio stations "get feedback from their listeners"....maybe in the land of OZ, but not here.

That is a totally disingenuous statement. Were you correct, companies like Edison Reasearch, Coleman Insights, Dialsmith, Troy Research, Harker Research, and a dozen or so more would not exist. All of these derive a significant part, if not all, their income from radio station research.

Significant music stations in medium to large markets do music research by consulting with their listeners on what songs to play and what songs not to play. Tens of millions of dollars are spent each year just on Auditorium Music Tests. Millions more are spent on tools like MediaMonitors' "MScore" tracking, another form of measuring acceptance and rejection of songs.

A Columbia University study proved that the big Corporate Labels along with the Corporate owned stations mold the taste of the zombie public who just follows along.

Citation please. When? Methodology? Sample size? Proportionality and projectability?

Considering that the major labels are losing money or minimally profitable, and seeking to squeeze radio for royalties, your conclusion or that of this "study"


A group of 14,000 people were given access to a web site where they could download and rate it's "quality".

The quality of what? The website?

How were the 14,000 recruited? Was it a true random probability sample, projectable into the universe? Otherwise, it is without value. Totally.

The study shows, and the sociology professors at Columbia concluded, that people make their musical choices based on popularity and not quality. It turns out that when you let people know what other people think...or tell them the lie that this is what people think, just to draw attention to an artist which increases record sales, the popular things become more popular...said Columbia sociology professor Duncan Watts.

The problem with that is that the aspect of "quality" is unmeasurable insofar as music is concerned. While "hits" get attention because they are hits, radio does not continue to play songs if there is no ongoing acceptance of each song.

But people tend to go with what is popular because, in general, what is popular is what other people with similar tastes will like.

However, if other people don't like something, they don't consume it.

Example: Last week, Big Bang Theory was the most viewed show in 18-49 in the US. It got about 6.1 million viewers... yet the US population in 18-49 is over 150,000,000. So about one person in 25 watched it... showing that people generally decide if they like something or not on their own and don't just, in this case, watch because the show is popular.

So as I have been saying for years on this board, and the study proves it's true, the crap that is played today isn't popular because it is quality, because people want to hear it, it is force fed, they are molding the taste of the public.

The charts of the last hundred or so year are littered with examples of songs that shot up initially, and then went into a nosedive into oblivion; those were wildly anticipated songs (whether sheet music, records, tapes, CDs or MP3s) that turned out to not be as good as the public hoped. They were initially sucked up, but discovered to be defective and rejected. The public knows what it wants, and can't be duped.

Since most stations aiming at people over 25 play all or a majority of songs that are not current hits, and stations check with listeners regularly as to which ones they want to continue hearing, listeners are selecting songs they like. Individually.

"Quality" is not a term I would ever use in selecting songs for my own collection or in programming. That is because the term is one of the most subjective terms in the language. Music has to be looked at with a view to "appeal" with no judgmental metric applied.
 
"Songs that shot up initially and then went into a nosedive into oblivion." I notice you didn't cite any examples. Maybe that's because the songs are indeed in oblivion now. May I? These are in chronological order and all were number-one hits:

Oh My Pa-Pa - Eddie Fisher
Don't Forbid Me - Pat Boone
Go Away Little Girl - Donny Osmond
Disco Duck - Rick Dees
I Think We're Alone Now - Tiffany
Wild Wild West - Escape Club
Freak Me - Silk
Bump N' Grind - R Kelly
How Do U Want It - 2Pac, K-Ci & Jo-Jo
Incomplete - Sisqó
Bootylicious - Destiny's Child
Moneymaker - Ludacris & Pharrell

Have you heard any of them on the radio lately? Or do you even want to hear them? :D
 
LARadioRewind said:
"Songs that shot up initially and then went into a nosedive into oblivion." I notice you didn't cite any examples. Maybe that's because the songs are indeed in oblivion now. May I? These are in chronological order and all were number-one hits:

I was thinking more of the many songs by multi-hit artists that debuted in the top 30 or so, but immediately disappeared. Songs that got a lot of sales in the channels, but which stiffed at retail once consumers heard the song... and realized it was not the artist's best work.
 
doowopvault said:
So as I have been saying for years on this board, and the study proves it's true, the crap that is played today isn't popular because it is quality, because people want to hear it, it is force fed, they are molding the taste of the public. If the crap that is played is all the public hears, and is also told it's popular, the public, through the power of suggestion, will follow.

EXACTLY!! You could not have said it better. This holds especially true for the listeners in the lower end of the targeted demos. They weren't around in 1967 or 1976, so they are not really familiar with all the hits back then, except for the ones that radio plays today. They are duped into accepting that these are the only big hits that were around back then, nevermind the "other" 90% that are not played. I'm certain that they would like most of the others too! It's a brainwash.

As for people in the upper reaches of the targeted demo, most DO know and can relate to which songs are being played too much and which ones are being avoided (the songs they remember from their youth, that are not being played today, but wish they were).

Many people that I have spoken with about the issues of radio these days, consistently mention: repetition, lack of their favorite tunes and small playlists.

So when it's music test time, the ones who participate (mainly lower ranges of the demo) are only familiar with what's only been aired, so they pass. The other songs (which are never aired to begin with) will never pass, because they have never been exposed to them in the first place.

What we really need is a bunch of 50-55 year olds performing music tests, and the results will be vastly improved. Either that or just eliminate these costly monstrocities and do what most small market classic hits stations do, play them all.
 
I agree. Today's listeners know only what they've been "force-fed." We could take the listeners in the "lower end of the targeted demos" and play them 100 songs from 2005, 100 songs from 1995, and 100 songs from 1965. Which year do you think they would prefer?

I rest my case.
 
LARadioRewind said:
I agree. Today's listeners know only what they've been "force-fed." We could take the listeners in the "lower end of the targeted demos" and play them 100 songs from 2005, 100 songs from 1995, and 100 songs from 1965. Which year do you think they would prefer?

I rest my case.

And if we had taken you in 1973 and played you 100 songs from 1965, 100 songs from 1955 and 100 songs from 1945, what year would you have preferred?

This is universal, guys. It happens generation after generation.
 
LARadioRewind said:
"Songs that shot up initially and then went into a nosedive into oblivion." I notice you didn't cite any examples. Maybe that's because the songs are indeed in oblivion now. May I? These are in chronological order and all were number-one hits:

Oh My Pa-Pa - Eddie Fisher
Don't Forbid Me - Pat Boone
Go Away Little Girl - Donny Osmond
Disco Duck - Rick Dees
Have you heard any of them on the radio lately? Or do you even want to hear them? :D

I'd rather hear these first four classics many times over than the junk listed after "Disco Duck"
 
That's exactly why I have been listening to KOY-AM over the net. They play a little bit of everything including songs that are not played anywhere else. Most were hits in their day so it isn't some eclectic sampling. They have a slight favoritism for Sinatra which I don't like but otherwise their playlist is like old time radio.
 
Michael, in 1965 we had the Beatles, Beach Boys, Rolling Stones, Supremes, Four Tops, Four Seasons, Petula Clark, Herman's Hermits...

In 1955 we had Georgia Gibbs, Jaye P. Morgan, Art Mooney, Al Hibbler, Rusty Draper, Gisele MacKenzie...

In 1945 we had Vaughn Monroe, Dick Haymes, Kay Kyser, Guy Lombardo, Tony Pastor, the Pied Pipers...

Nope---I'd still take the '60s. ;)
 
Barry has a great show and I hope and I'm sure his show makes most consultants butt pucker..How dare he get such good ratings with all those songs that didn't test well and why is he not playing Play That Funky Music Every Week...You keep doing what you do Barry!!!!!! Love your show!!!
 
allenv said:
Barry has a great show and I hope and I'm sure his show makes most consultants butt pucker..How dare he get such good ratings with all those songs that didn't test well and why is he not playing Play That Funky Music Every Week...You keep doing what you do Barry!!!!!! Love your show!!!

It's a weekend specialty show, programmed at night when the fewest listeners of the week are tuned in. Even a ratings victory in a graveyard slot like this is virtually meaningless. Boston's WKLB has four hours of classic country a week, 8 a.m. to noon on Sundays. The show often wins its time slot, but the cume is teeny-weeny, and the station wouldn't dream of flipping to classic country 24/7. Similarly, nobody would listen to Barry's show if it were on your local classic hits station every day from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. It would kill office listening completely.
 
Barry's show is not Classic Country..Its Classic Top 40 and there is a large audience for the show..It also does well in other markets. I understand its a specialty show but it still wins its time slot week after week reguardless..How do you know it would kill office listening?? No one else is doing that type of show in middays so what do you base that on??
 
LARadioRewind said:
In 1955 we had Georgia Gibbs, Jaye P. Morgan, Art Mooney, Al Hibbler, Rusty Draper, Gisele MacKenzie...

BUT...........in 1956 we had Elvis, Bill Haley, Carl Perkins, Bill Doggett, Fats Domino, Gene Vincent, Frankie Lymon, and Little Richard!!
 
allenv said:
Barry's show is not Classic Country..Its Classic Top 40

I think CTListener knows that. He was using another "classic" show as an example of how out-of-format and out-of-demo shows can be used in dayparts where there is close to no listening as a way of gaining cred and increasing incidental cume.

and there is a large audience for the show..

"Large" is a relative term. Shows that run in weekend 7-Mid dayparts don't have "large" audiences compared to the kind of AQH listening we see in 6 AM - 7 PM during the week.

So, really, there is nothing to lose and, perhaps a little to gain, by adding specialty shows that don't mirror the regular programming. There are generally enough listeners who are interested in deep cuts or nostalgia and trivia to create a little subset that comes together for such shows.

It also does well in other markets.

It's, surely, an interesting show for those who like the "museum quality" of the interviews, information and songs. It's well done, and very professional.

But it is not for everyone, and it is not for most people in the money demos. But ratings based sales seldom include weekend nights, so there is a chance to find a direct account or two or three who will like to be associated with the show. So the station can make money... but such shows don't really help the salable demos or salable dayparts.

I understand its a specialty show but it still wins its time slot week after week reguardless..

Weekend nights is essentially a "race of three legged horses" in that the PUR (Persons Using Radio) is so low. If I had a classic hits station, I'd only consider such a show if I was sure there were some direct accounts who would underwrite it and make me a bit of money.

How do you know it would kill office listening?? No one else is doing that type of show in middays so what do you base that on??

Demographically, it would not match any competitive and rated market's core demos, so it would blow off the regular listeners and replace them with demos that transactional buys do not include.

Reality bites.
 
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