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Please Help! Question about a mackie mixing board into a Radio Mixing Console

K

KWVAMD

Hi, first of all let me say that as a Music Director for a college radio station, this site has been an amazing resource. I have spent the last few hours just browsing through and learning as much as I can, but to get to my question...

Basically at my station I am the only who was interested in bringing live music to the station and having bands perform. I've spent the last few months learning about mixing and sound engineering from the ground up to try and mix bands and get them live on air. Right now I am using a Mackie 1642-VLZ3 mixer, its great for bands and I'm gotten fairly skilled with it. The problem comes when we connect the Mackie up to our D-16 Digital Audio Console by Audio Arts Engineering. The way that we've been doing it since we got the Mackie, is to disconnect the two vocal mics that are used to talk on-air from the D-16 and connect those xlr's to the main outputs of the Mackie. The problem is that the channels jack up so much that even if everything is mixed and sounding perfectly crisp on the mackie, when you get it to the D-16 it fuzzes out and clips horribly. Everything sounds like a clipping fuzzy mess. I've had to overcompensate for the jacking up on the D-16 by mixing the mackie super low almost to inaudible quietness which then comes out a bit hushed and doesn't sound ideal over the air.

My question is what can I do to the D-16 to have it take the Mackie's signal without jacking up the noise considerably? Is there a setting or something I can change to make it a straight through channel for when I use the Mackie to mix bands? ANY HELP on the topic or my question would be greatly appreciated. Any information or insight that you could give me as well into how radio consoles work in this regard would be amazing. Thank you so much for your time and help!
 
If I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds as if you're taking the LINE level outputs of the Mackie into the MIC level inputs of the console. If I'm correct, you're overdriving the console inputs.

I'm familiar somewhat with your console. Can you feed the Mackie into a LINE level input on the console?
 
We've got a fuzzbox and we're gonna use it ;D

Agree with Chief - definitely sounds like you're feeding the line output (775mV+) into a mic input (1-5mV), hence the distortion.
 
We all agree. You are taking LINE LEVEL out of the Mackie and feeding it into the MIC inputs... which expect to receive the micro-flea-power level that a mic puts out.

What you need is called a "pad". If you have no ground loops or other noise generating problems, a simple pad made up of some resistors will take the line level down to mic level very well. If after building or acquiring a "resistive pad" you do end up with some hums, buzzes, etc, then a more expensive solution will include putting a transformer into each circuit. Do the pads first... if they work you are home free.

Your favorite guitar shop or maybe even Radio Shack might offer a ready-made pad.... connecting plugs and all. If you have an engineer that works with the station, ask him/her help you design and fabricate the pad. I throw one of these together as needed about once every 13 years so I can't reach around and hand you the design right off the top of my head. This is a busy day for me. If someone doesn't give you a source or a design, I will come up with one and post it in a few days.
 
Those guys have nailed it. Feed the Mackie out to a line level input on your Audio Arts. As an alternative, try using the "Tape Out" from the Mackie mixer into the mic in on the Audio Arts. The unbalanced output will still be hot, but it may be more forgiving than the Line Out.
 
Get your engineer to wire a pair of cables with XLR connectors into a line-level channel of the D16. Plug in the Mackie and you're done. We have done this at the TV station I work at to accomodate a singing group that visits every year with Mackie and a rack of processors.

FYI...I've been in the habit of wiring a stereo miniplug cable into a spare board channel to allow a laptop or MP3 player to be connected quickly to the console in case of automation failure, etc.
 
Here is a "how to do it" article on the web. Get's a bit geeky. If you find the info puzzling, look around you and grab the nearest geek for help.

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/



Here is a ready made solution that can be purchased off the shelf. Full Compass is a good supplier. (Print the page out and take it to your local retailer or distributor if you want to buy something comparable today locally.)

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/230459.html



There is one Got'cha to keep in mind. Your station console may be set up to feed "phantom voltage" to microphones. Some consoles allow you to turn off the phantom on individual channels. Other consoles have a switch that turns phantom voltage off or on FOR ALL CHANNELS in unison.

If the mic inputs you are feeding into are providing phantom voltage, you "ding-a-thingy-of-choice" may have to deal with that without killing the mixing console.

Does you station console not have a set up "line level" inputs available to you? How does the station feed CD players or tape decks or maybe even satellite feeds into the console? These things do not normally come in on mic inputs.
 
My Mackie 1642 -VLZ Pro mixer has a switchable +4/microphone output on it's balanced main outs. Maybe yours does too.

Dennis
 
Your best solution is to feed the XLR Line out on the Mackie to a unused Line input on the D16... that way you don't have to unplug your mics and you don't over drive the Mic inputs on the D16.
 
In all of this discussion, we have taken one thing for granted. We assume that "the powers that be" in charge of your station are OK with you coming up with your own input contraption.

Take it from a guy who has transgressed a lot of policy and rules through the years, you have received a lot of workable technical information to achieve your goal.

Just make sure there is no Draconian rule in the organization that forbids such user-initiated "hay-wire" contraptions.

I've got to go back and see if I can find it again, but a couple of years ago I came across a picture of the studio of an LPFM station, and right beside the mixing consold was this very neat little box, maybe with a footprint of 6 inches by 6 inches, with a sloping front with had somewhere between 12 and 24 jacks and connectors of all sorts. This obviously was a station that encouraged the on-air volunteers to bring in their own audio sources of all sorts: iPods, cassette players, who knows what else. Just bring your own little connector cable and find a "hole the same shape and size as your peg" and knock yourself out.

When a station has not provided a designated device for external connection, one must make sure that creating your own home-brew connection will not bring down the "management gods" on your fragile little being.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
I've got to go back and see if I can find it again, but a couple of years ago I came across a picture of the studio of an LPFM station, and right beside the mixing consold was this very neat little box, maybe with a footprint of 6 inches by 6 inches, with a sloping front with had somewhere between 12 and 24 jacks and connectors of all sorts. This obviously was a station that encouraged the on-air volunteers to bring in their own audio sources of all sorts: iPods, cassette players, who knows what else. Just bring your own little connector cable and find a "hole the same shape and size as your peg" and knock yourself out.
Click to expand...


Sounds very similar to the Multiport interface by Henry Engineering

http://www.henryeng.com/multipo.html
 
Padding is quick, and dirty. Your noise floor will be higher than just using a line inpt on the board.

I built a multiple in/out panel that had just about every type of connector and level on it. Jock still unplugs the mic then cranks the level on his I-Pad down to a click or two from the lowest it'll go. Doesn't care about the artifacts.

Sigh...
 
Ideally, you would have your engineer wire up a set of cables that you can plug into.
But I think the easiest solution would be to unplug the audio cables from one of your CD players and connect your Mackie through those. If they are RCA connectors, connect them to the "Tape Out" on your Mackie. If they're XLR connectors, connect them to the "Main Out" on your Mackie.
 
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