PLEASE POST RECORDINGS OF HD, particularly AM

[Mike Walker]

I keep reading comments about AM HD induced interference, AM HD stations that are difficult to receive even in VERY close proximity, and other AM HD stations that seem to have miraculous range. ALL OF IT UNSUBSTANTIATED BY ANYTHING WE CAN LISTEN TO!

We're talking about RADIO here...the transmission of AUDIO CONTENT THROUGH THE AIR! So I suggest we attempt to document out observations as much as practical with RECORDINGS demonstrating out findings. I (like others) pontificate about AM HD, but you want to know the truth? I'VE NEVER HEARD IT! Not on my radio, at any rate. There are NO AM HD STATIONS IN WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA, as far as I can tell. So, those of you who actually have access to AM HD, PLEASE SHARE WITH US WHAT YOU HEAR! Record your findings (positive and negative...and yes, if you find interference issues, PLEASE record and post them as well!) We can have a more informed discussion if everyone can hear examples of what's being discussed. Agreed?

 

[stevenNOLA]

I keep reading comments about AM HD induced interference, AM HD stations that are difficult to receive even in VERY close proximity, and other AM HD stations that seem to have miraculous range. ALL OF IT UNSUBSTANTIATED BY ANYTHING WE CAN LISTEN TO!

We're talking about RADIO here...the transmission of AUDIO CONTENT THROUGH THE AIR! So I suggest we attempt to document out observations as much as practical with RECORDINGS demonstrating out findings. I (like others) pontificate about AM HD, but you want to know the truth? I'VE NEVER HEARD IT! Not on my radio, at any rate. There are NO AM HD STATIONS IN WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA, as far as I can tell. So, those of you who actually have access to AM HD, PLEASE SHARE WITH US WHAT YOU HEAR! Record your findings (positive and negative...and yes, if you find interference issues, PLEASE record and post them as well!) We can have a more informed discussion if everyone can hear examples of what's being discussed. Agreed?

Mike, I don't have the ability to record and post any clips at this time. What I can tell you is after having heard 4 different HD AMs, they sound much better in HD than in analog. It is not quite the fidelity of analog FM. It does have a 'tinny' low-bitrate digital sound. It is also succeptible to powerlines, overpasses, parking garages, etc just like the analog signal. The bottom line is with any major problem with the analog signal, the digital will drop out and it will switch back to analog especially on 1kw or 5kw AMs running HD. With a 50kw AM within a 50 or so mile radius, the HD does not drop out unless maybe inside a tunnel LOL. Furthermore, I do not notice a difference in the analog sound quality of a station running HD. Compared to any other media, analog AM just sounds bad. It may sound slightly worse if running HD but I don't notice it. Like it said, it never sounded good anyway. If it has programming (talk) I'm interested in, I'll listen and I don't care if it's 5khz or 10khz of bandwidth. Listening to it in AM HD is just a bonus as far as I'm concerned. Also, I have not noticed any interference from adjacent stations running HD. For what it's worth, I'm not in an area where the AM band is exceptionally crowded so it may not be a problem in my area.

 

[Mike Walker]

Thanks for your comments. I would point out that analog AM doesn't have to "just sound bad". Here's a recording I made of analog AM at my house, using a Grundig S350 in wide bandwidth. The station is about 30 miles away, 5kw on 580, with a new transmitter, new tower, and new processing. All source material is digital...either direct from cd, or uncompressed .wav files from computer hard drive. It's a small market AM station, playing country (and bluegrass) music, SERVING THEIR COMMUNITY, with superb audio quality! http://www.theproductionroom.net/wksk.m3u

 

[stevenNOLA]

I expected to come under fire for that one...LOL But you are correct...not all sound bad. I was suggesting it does not sound as good as FM, satellite radio, mp3 player, etc. I will listen to any good programming on AM, especially classic country or oldies ;D I could definitely see a higher powered AM running HD being a viable player in a music format when HD radios become the norm. I'm sure they could be tweaked to make it sound very good.

 

[Mike Walker]

Here's a link directly to the audio if you want to download it http://www.theproductionroom.net/wksk.wma

 

[stevenNOLA]

sounds phenomonal!

 

[eGillCVI]

I have heard AM in HD and it does indeed sound tinny. I believe the term they're using to describe AM in HD is "approaching FM quality." It's definitely not FM quality but it is certainly better than the analog. No crackles during lightning strikes, no total loss while driving under an overpass, and just generally a lot easier to listen to. The point is to make it easier on the ears. Let's face it: People switch away from AM because it's hard to sit through.

As for the interference, I believe that argument is just a crutch being used by those who have a distaste for HD radio. No regular listener is going to care about or even notice it. Except to radio geeks (about whom the industry couldn't [EDIT]), "IBOC hash" is a non-issue.

[EDIT-profanity]

 

[stevenNOLA]

I have similar observations. I've never heard "hash" or "hissing" or any other interference on the analog audio of a station running IBOC.

 

[MotoMuzak]

A local Portland AM is currently running IBAC, 1190 KEX (a 50,000+ watt Clear Channel talker.......go fig) and tuning it on my Sony ICF36 (Analogue tuner, so it's probably not a fair benchmark as I might not be "right on" the centre frequency) I can hear the IBAC sidebands vry loud over the main channel. It also does this on my Panasonic SL-CT579V CD player (it also has a radio, digital tuner.)

Keep in mind that the AM section on the Panasonic radio is Foxtrot Uniform Delta Sierra (+/-2kHz bandwidth, unbelievably selective--on normal analogue stations without IBAC--but brobably the worst sound quality of any AM radio I have tested) and with its remarkably narrow bandwidth, if I can hear the IBAC barkers splattering over the main channel it's not the receiver that's at fault!!

By the way, I have heard KEX on an IBAC receiver (a Boston Receptor) and while it is far more listenable than the analogue channel has been as of late (I am surprised to find myself writing that) the speech quality of it tends to sound "unnatural" at times, particularly when a speaker pauses to take a breath or is in between words. (You can still hear these loud and clear on an analogue set but not so much on an IBAC.)

 

[DarkStarPDX]

Same as MotoMuzak, I live in Portland, Oregon. In my Subaru I installed the Panasonic HD radio and listen to 1190 KEX quite a bit. When anything in stereo is played, the quality sounds excellent (as good or better than FM). Unfortunately, they have their microphones on center (equal on left and right channels) so the iBiquity HD encoder has trouble giving those sounds depth and speech will sound flat. On Christmas, I especially enjoied listening to KEX because they played nothing but Christmas music and it sounded much better than FM...

When 1330 KKPZ started their HD signal, there were issues with the HD sidebands running into 1360 KUIK. KKPZ also reported issues with their HD signal not being reliable at all... They spent about 3-4 days tuning up the signal and the sideband splatter completely dissapeared from KUIK and the HD signal for KKPZ became rock solid in their broadcast area...

Hopefully, soon Portland will have a third AM station in HD, 1640 KDZR. This is a Radio Disney station and should be a good demonstration of AM HD music. Later this summer, 1600 KOHI in St. Helens hopefully will be turning on their HD exciter as well (about 30 miles NW of Portland).

I don't have a way of hooking up a recorder to my car HD radio, but I plan on getting a Sangean HDT-1 within a couple of months and I'll start getting some airchecks posted...

 

[Tom Wells]

I have heard AM in HD and it does indeed sound tinny. I believe the term they're using to describe AM in HD is "approaching FM quality." It's definitely not FM quality but it is certainly better than the analog. No crackles during lightning strikes, no total loss while driving under an overpass, and just generally a lot easier to listen to. The point is to make it easier on the ears. Let's face it: People switch away from AM because it's hard to sit through.

As for the interference, I believe that argument is just a crutch being used by those who have a distaste for HD radio. No regular listener is going to care about or even notice it. Except to radio geeks (about whom the industry [EDIT] "IBOC hash" is a non-issue.
[EDIT-profanity]

I have similar observations. I've never heard "hash" or "hissing" or any other interference on the analog audio of a station running IBOC.

What kind of radios are you guys using that you can't hear the hissing?
Must be PLL step-tuned at 10 khz steps only, because every normal analog radio is so touchy that it's darn near impossible
to center-tune to minimize the hiss.
And then it's only minimized, not GONE, and the remaining audio has no upper register.
And then if it's a car radio, any driving causes tuning shifts, bringing back the hiss..

If you can't hear the IBOC hissing on AM, your ears, radio, or truthfulness are sadly lacking.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I keep reading comments about AM HD induced interference, AM HD stations that are difficult to receive even in VERY close proximity, and other AM HD stations that seem to have miraculous range. ALL OF IT UNSUBSTANTIATED BY ANYTHING WE CAN LISTEN TO!

We're talking about RADIO here...the transmission of AUDIO CONTENT THROUGH THE AIR! So I suggest we attempt to document out observations as much as practical with RECORDINGS demonstrating out findings. I (like others) pontificate about AM HD, but you want to know the truth? I'VE NEVER HEARD IT! Not on my radio, at any rate. There are NO AM HD STATIONS IN WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA, as far as I can tell. So, those of you who actually have access to AM HD, PLEASE SHARE WITH US WHAT YOU HEAR! Record your findings (positive and negative...and yes, if you find interference issues, PLEASE record and post them as well!) We can have a more informed discussion if everyone can hear examples of what's being discussed. Agreed?

Where, on this site, is there a way to post audio files, and how do we post them, Mike?
There is no way.
Perhaps that is why no one is doing it!
As the HD slogan repeated, "are you deaf yet?"

 

[eGillCVI]

If you can't hear the IBOC hissing on AM, your ears, radio, or truthfulness are sadly lacking.

Well, there's some more of that respectful argument. I'll say it one more time: I don't hear the awful hiss everyone's always harping on. I don't hear it on any radio. That may be because AM radio already sounds like crap but at any rate, I don't hear it. But even if I did hear it, it wouldn't matter because the average radio listener wouldn't notice or care. That's what you guys need to get through your skulls. The hiss is a non-issue. Try something else.

 

[stevenNOLA]

I have heard AM in HD and it does indeed sound tinny. I believe the term they're using to describe AM in HD is "approaching FM quality." It's definitely not FM quality but it is certainly better than the analog. No crackles during lightning strikes, no total loss while driving under an overpass, and just generally a lot easier to listen to. The point is to make it easier on the ears. Let's face it: People switch away from AM because it's hard to sit through.

As for the interference, I believe that argument is just a crutch being used by those who have a distaste for HD radio. No regular listener is going to care about or even notice it. Except to radio geeks (about whom the industry [EDIT]"IBOC hash" is a non-issue.
[EDIT-profanity]

I have similar observations. I've never heard "hash" or "hissing" or any other interference on the analog audio of a station running IBOC.

What kind of radios are you guys using that you can't hear the hissing?
Must be PLL step-tuned at 10 khz steps only, because every normal analog radio is so touchy that it's darn near impossible
to center-tune to minimize the hiss.
And then it's only minimized, not GONE, and the remaining audio has no upper register.
And then if it's a car radio, any driving causes tuning shifts, bringing back the hiss..

If you can't hear the IBOC hissing on AM, your ears, radio, or truthfulness are sadly lacking.

Tom, you are generally respectful but are your ears possibly constantly ringing?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I have heard AM in HD and it does indeed sound tinny. I believe the term they're using to describe AM in HD is "approaching FM quality." It's definitely not FM quality but it is certainly better than the analog. No crackles during lightning strikes, no total loss while driving under an overpass, and just generally a lot easier to listen to. The point is to make it easier on the ears. Let's face it: People switch away from AM because it's hard to sit through.

As for the interference, I believe that argument is just a crutch being used by those who have a distaste for HD radio. No regular listener is going to care about or even notice it. Except to radio geeks (about whom the industry [EDIT]"IBOC hash" is a non-issue.
[EDIT-profanity]

I have similar observations. I've never heard "hash" or "hissing" or any other interference on the analog audio of a station running IBOC.

What kind of radios are you guys using that you can't hear the hissing?
Must be PLL step-tuned at 10 khz steps only, because every normal analog radio is so touchy that it's darn near impossible
to center-tune to minimize the hiss.
And then it's only minimized, not GONE, and the remaining audio has no upper register.
And then if it's a car radio, any driving causes tuning shifts, bringing back the hiss..

If you can't hear the IBOC hissing on AM, your ears, radio, or truthfulness are sadly lacking.

Thanks Tom.
It's is nice to hear the truth for a change, instead of a pack of HD hucksters peddling HD promotional hype.
On FM, digital hiss on adjacent channels is also plainly heard, except it is often mistaken for interstation noise (which has a different frequency distribution). With all the self proclaimed HD "golden ears" we have on this board, you would think anyone who could not hear the loud digital adjacent channel noise should be immediately expelled from the "golden ears" category, and their credibility immediately suspect.

 

[stevenNOLA]

I have heard AM in HD and it does indeed sound tinny. I believe the term they're using to describe AM in HD is "approaching FM quality." It's definitely not FM quality but it is certainly better than the analog. No crackles during lightning strikes, no total loss while driving under an overpass, and just generally a lot easier to listen to. The point is to make it easier on the ears. Let's face it: People switch away from AM because it's hard to sit through.

As for the interference, I believe that argument is just a crutch being used by those who have a distaste for HD radio. No regular listener is going to care about or even notice it. Except to
radio geeks (about whom the industry [EDIT]"IBOC hash" is a non-issue.
[EDIT-profanity]

I have similar observations. I've never heard "hash" or "hissing" or any other interference on the analog audio of a station running IBOC.

What kind of radios are you guys using that you can't hear the hissing?
Must be PLL step-tuned at 10 khz steps only, because every normal analog radio is so touchy that it's darn near impossible
to center-tune to minimize the hiss.
And then it's only minimized, not GONE, and the remaining audio has no upper register.
And then if it's a car radio, any driving causes tuning shifts, bringing back the hiss..

If you can't hear the IBOC hissing on AM, your ears, radio, or truthfulness are sadly lacking.

Thanks Tom.
It's is nice to hear the truth for a change, instead of a pack of HD hucksters peddling HD promotional hype.
On FM, digital hiss on adjacent channels is also plainly heard, except it is often mistaken for interstation noise (which has a different frequency distribution). With all the self proclaimed HD "golden ears" we have on this board, you would think anyone who could not hear the loud digital adjacent channel noise should be immediately expelled from the "golden ears" category, and their credibility immediately suspect.

I'm probably like most other radio listeners...I listen to the actual frequency the station broadcasts on...

 

[SUPERCASTER]

I have heard AM in HD and it does indeed sound tinny. I believe the term they're using to describe AM in HD is "approaching FM quality." It's definitely not FM quality but it is certainly better than the analog. No crackles during lightning strikes, no total loss while driving under an overpass, and just generally a lot easier to listen to. The point is to make it easier on the ears. Let's face it: People switch away from AM because it's hard to sit through.

As for the interference, I believe that argument is just a crutch being used by those who have a distaste for HD radio. No regular listener is going to care about or even notice it. Except to radio geeks (about whom the industry [EDIT]"IBOC hash" is a non-issue.
[EDIT-profanity]

I have similar observations. I've never heard "hash" or "hissing" or any other interference on the analog audio of a station running IBOC.

What kind of radios are you guys using that you can't hear the hissing?
Must be PLL step-tuned at 10 khz steps only, because every normal analog radio is so touchy that it's darn near impossible
to center-tune to minimize the hiss.
And then it's only minimized, not GONE, and the remaining audio has no upper register.
And then if it's a car radio, any driving causes tuning shifts, bringing back the hiss..

If you can't hear the IBOC hissing on AM, your ears, radio, or truthfulness are sadly lacking.

Thanks Tom.
It's is nice to hear the truth for a change, instead of a pack of HD hucksters peddling HD promotional hype.
On FM, digital hiss on adjacent channels is also plainly heard, except it is often mistaken for interstation noise (which has a different frequency distribution). With all the self proclaimed HD "golden ears" we have on this board, you would think anyone who could not hear the loud digital adjacent channel noise should be immediately expelled from the "golden ears" category, and their credibility immediately suspect.

I'm probably like most other radio listeners...I listen to the actual frequency the station broadcasts on...

...and don't even notice the "stations between the stations" that are being jammed by HD!

 

[stevenNOLA]

This thread has managed (like most others) to deviate from its original topic and veer into a non-intelligent, non-factual argument. Thanks Mike, Tom, and eGillCVI for your input.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

This thread has managed (like most others) to deviate from its original topic and veer into a non-intelligent, non-factual argument. Thanks Mike, Tom, and eGillCVI for your input.

Yes, your posts have. Thanks for the admission of guilt.

 

[radiopilot]

Here's a link directly to the audio if you want to download it http://www.theproductionroom.net/wksk.wma

I just downloaded this file... and it's all hiss, if this is AM IBOC... or anything similar... forget it'!

Part 15 AM transmitters sound better that that... although they have less wattage....

The voice track sounds ok, but the music really sucks no high end, and it's tinny....

Just my take on it... of course perhaps on a $300.00 table top HD radio it may sound better... but 97% of radios out there are not HD.