PLJ SOLD

[TheBigA]

There is more than free streaming services like Pandora in today's modern world.

Thanks, I'm very aware of that.

 

[CTListener]

Thanks, I'm very aware of that.

Can music streaming services get away with using servers in countries that the US can't extradite from and whose governments aren't interested in American internet piracy concerns, the way video streaming services -- mostly sports -- do? It's like a giant game of whack-a-mole with those streamers as they hop from Moldova to Kazakhstan to Albania to who knows where every time they get close to being shut down. Could this be the fate of free music streamers?

 

[davideduardo]

Net gain for who? Not the New York radio listener. Not advocating for WPLJ but that or any other format served the NYC population better than KLove who I would imagine will be one of New York's lowest rated stations. Religious programming in New York is a niche format. EMI bought the station, they have a mission...more power to them. My point is that it isn't what serves New York City best based on what the average listener would listen to. Programming a niche format doesn't make sense for a multimedia company...I get that but that's not my argument.

I think you underestimate the appeal of inspirational music. It certainly has enough interest to rate, while not in the top tier, among the lesser rated of the successful music FMs in the market.

EMF (EMI is a music company) does not offer "religious" programming in the traditional sense... the format is a very well executed one of inspirational contemporary sounding songs. .

To say an "American station" makes perfect sense if one is abroad.

No, it does not. Were there a station programming English language music in English in Mexico City, it would be called "the English language station". Remember, "American" outside the US means "The Americas" and that's the whole Western Hemisphere. See how dangerous generalizations are?

To say Caribbean station also make sense.

It would be better to say the West Indies station or the Jamaican station, as "Caribbean" is way too generalized.

WVIP calls itself the voice of the Caribbean and they don't cover all languages and dialects. I think it is obvious that this is a generalization and typically when one speaks of a Caribbean population in New York they are referring to the English speaking countries and perhaps some French creole.

Again, very generalized and not real. There are a number of Creole languages, both French and English in origin. The French ones are each distinct. Kreyole, the one with the most speakers, is now considered separate from French as a native French speaker can not understand it.

 

[Kent]

Can music streaming services get away with using servers in countries that the US can't extradite from and whose governments aren't interested in American internet piracy concerns, the way video streaming services -- mostly sports -- do?

Not legally. The way it was explained to me, you have to buy a license to stream legally to any country, and that includes paying each country's royalties.

Now, is it possible somebody could set up a server in a foreign country and not pay licensing elsewhere? From a technical standpoint, it probably is, but anybody trying that better hope they’re never found.

 

[TheBigA]

Can music streaming services get away with using servers in countries that the US can't extradite from and whose governments aren't interested in American internet piracy concerns,

I think SoundExchange is very concerned about this kind of thing, and are constantly scanning the internet for black market streamers.

 

[TheBigA]

I think you underestimate the appeal of inspirational music. It certainly has enough interest to rate, while not in the top tier, among the lesser rated of the successful music FMs in the market.

One other aspect of this particular company is that it is a non-commercial broadcaster. Any other genre of music could do the exact same thing. In Seattle, Paul Allen and a lot of alternative music fans founded the ground-breaking radio station KEXP. They recently raised $15 million to build new studios, including a state of the art performance hall. Could the same thing be done in New York? I don't see why not. It just takes someone with some money. I think there are some rich people living in New York.

 

[Jeffrey]

I think you underestimate the appeal of inspirational music. It certainly has enough interest to rate, while not in the top tier, among the lesser rated of the successful music FMs in the market.

EMF (EMI is a music company) does not offer "religious" programming in the traditional sense... the format is a very well executed one of inspirational contemporary sounding songs. .



No, it does not. Were there a station programming English language music in English in Mexico City, it would be called "the English language station". Remember, "American" outside the US means "The Americas" and that's the whole Western Hemisphere. See how dangerous generalizations are?



It would be better to say the West Indies station or the Jamaican station, as "Caribbean" is way too generalized.



Again, very generalized and not real. There are a number of Creole languages, both French and English in origin. The French ones are each distinct. Kreyole, the one with the most speakers, is now considered separate from French as a native French speaker can not understand it.

we could go around in circles but that's like saying I think you underestimate the appeal of classic hip, hop or dance. In New York both formats have enough interest to rate. Either would generate more buzz and mass appeal than religious programming. I'm sure you have 10,000 reasons why either one would not be viable and perhaps they wouldn't but the fact remains that they would do better in the ratings than K-Love.


It may be your opinion that it would be better to say West Indies or Jamaican station than Caribbean but the fact remains that a local station calls themselves a "Caribbean station" so stupid or not that's the deal.


American outside the US does not mean The Americas. I can't speak to Mexico but I can for the rest of the world and NO one would refer to someone or something from from south and central America as American and the same goes for radio.
An American radio station abroad means a radio station having to do with the United States. Remember Voice of America. That is an American Radio Station. They had nothing to do with any country in South America and it was obvious to everyone

 

[Kent]

American outside the US does not mean The Americas. I can't speak to Mexico but I can for the rest of the world and NO one would refer to someone or something from from south and central America as American and the same goes for radio.

I can’t speak for the whole world, but, in Central and South America, they view everything from the Bering Strait to Tierra del Fuego as “America.” Of course, if you refer to yourself as “americano,” they’ll probably figure it out unless you speak Spanish with a perfect accent. However, they’ll also tend to stereotype you as an ignoramus. Despite it taking on a negative context in the US, you'll sound more fluent and fit in better with the locals by referring to yourself as a “gringo” if you’re from here. The word, in and of itself, is no more negative than any other foreign nationality there.

Of course, if you were in Latin America and said a city there needed an “American station,” they'd probably just think you were an idiot.
An American radio station abroad means a radio station having to do with the United States. Remember Voice of America. That is an American Radio Station. They had nothing to do with any country in South America and it was obvious to everyone[/QUOTE]

 

[davideduardo]

we could go around in circles but that's like saying I think you underestimate the appeal of classic hip, hop or dance. In New York both formats have enough interest to rate. Either would generate more buzz and mass appeal than religious programming. I'm sure you have 10,000 reasons why either one would not be viable and perhaps they wouldn't but the fact remains that they would do better in the ratings than K-Love.

Classic hip hop has had ephemeral life spans in a large variety of markets, burning out very quickly. It has no advertiser appeal, as the current based rhythmic CHRs and Urbans rank higher, and few campaigns duplicate cume that deeply.

Dance in the US just does not get numbers. And what numbers it gets are not salable.

Neither format is capable of getting the audience levels that the K-Love format can get. Look at WAWZ which only covers about 25% of the NYC market population well. In its home market of Middlesex/Somerset/Union it gets an average of a 3 share and reaches abouut 8% of the adult population on a cume basis.

It may be your opinion that it would be better to say West Indies or Jamaican station than Caribbean but the fact remains that a local station calls themselves a "Caribbean station" so stupid or not that's the deal.

I admit it sounds good, but is filled with hyperbole. The bulk of the population of the Caribbean that is not part of Central or South America is Spanish speaking ( 24 million) followed by Kreyol (11 million). That's 35 million out of 44 million.

American outside the US does not mean The Americas. I can't speak to Mexico but I can for the rest of the world and NO one would refer to someone or something from from south and central America as American and the same goes for radio.

Were I to have said "I'm an American" in High School in Quito, I would have been told, "So are we. You are a North American".

When I was the producer of Radio Express' "World Chart Show" we had to be very careful to refer to the country of origin as the "United States of America", particularly in Latin America and Africa. To do otherwise would have resulted in an offense to the sponsors and the stations that carried the show.

An American radio station abroad means a radio station having to do with the United States. Remember Voice of America. That is an American Radio Station. They had nothing to do with any country in South America and it was obvious to everyone

And that is why, until recent clueless administration took over the VOA, the Spanish service was La Voz de los Estados Unidos de Norteamérica.

Let's see. Radio América is a radio station on 1190 in Buenos Aires. Radio Panamerica is a Radio Station in Lima. Radio America is a radio station in Quito. La Voz de las Americas was a radio station in Guatemala. Radio América is one of the principal news radio networks in Honduras. Radio América is a radio station in Panamá, Panamá. And so on.

When Nino Bravo, the Spanish superstar of the early 70's, sang his song "América" he said,

América, América
Todo un inmenso jardín
Eso es América
Cuando Dios hizo el edén
Pensó en América

And that was, roughly, "America, America, it's one immense garden. That is America. When God made the Garden of Eden, he thought of America". Hint: he was European and was not singing about the USA.

 

[davideduardo]

I can’t speak for the whole world, but, in Central and South America, they view everything from the Bering Strait to Tierra del Fuego as “America.” Of course, if you refer to yourself as “americano,” they’ll probably figure it out unless you speak Spanish with a perfect accent. However, they’ll also tend to stereotype you as an ignoramus. Despite it taking on a negative context in the US, you'll sound more fluent and fit in better with the locals by referring to yourself as a “gringo” if you’re from here. The word, in and of itself, is no more negative than any other foreign nationality there.

Excellent points.

In high school in Ecuador, I had a classmate we called "El Gringo" Mantilla. He was a born Ecuadorian, but he was blonde and of a very Nordic complexion. Thus, "El Gringo". Not offensive.

 

[TheBigA]

I think you underestimate the appeal of classic hip, hop or dance. In New York both formats have enough interest to rate. Either would generate more buzz and mass appeal than religious programming. I'm sure you have 10,000 reasons why either one would not be viable and perhaps they wouldn't but the fact remains that they would do better in the ratings than K-Love.

Except that K-Love doesn't care about ratings. That's the thing people don't understand about stations like K-Love or WBAI. They don't care about ratings, they care about reach. For them, the reach of their station never changes and they don't compete against other stations. When you have an owner who isn't playing the standard radio game, none of the rules matter.

Which is why I say that certain musical genres work better as non-commercial formats. For many years, classical, jazz, and folks were best expressed as non-commercial formats. Now we're seeing oldies, AAA, and Americana becoming solid non-commercial formats. I believe the future of all sub-genre formats, such as dance or EDM, is as a non-commercial format. The way to do it is by organizing. Build your membership, raise some money, and start a radio station. Because nobody cares as much about certain genres of music than the fans themselves. No one. Don't expect a profit-making, stockholder based corporation to have the same passion for the music as the fans.

 

[Jeffrey]

absolutely 100%. I couldn't agree with you more!! And yes K-Love could care less about ratings. They have a mission. That was my whole point on previous posts.
I had suggested the New York radio listener would be better served by one of these formats on 95.5 than a religious one all the while understanding that no media co. would bother with a niche format.
I would love to see some more non commercial stations in the market and elsewhere. Those tend to be some of the best radio stations in the country in terms of music and creativity

 

[Jeffrey]

Classic hip hop has had ephemeral life spans in a large variety of markets, burning out very quickly. It has no advertiser appeal, as the current based rhythmic CHRs and Urbans rank higher, and few campaigns duplicate cume that deeply.

Dance in the US just does not get numbers. And what numbers it gets are not salable.

Neither format is capable of getting the audience levels that the K-Love format can get. Look at WAWZ which only covers about 25% of the NYC market population well. In its home market of Middlesex/Somerset/Union it gets an average of a 3 share and reaches abouut 8% of the adult population on a cume basis.



I admit it sounds good, but is filled with hyperbole. The bulk of the population of the Caribbean that is not part of Central or South America is Spanish speaking ( 24 million) followed by Kreyol (11 million). That's 35 million out of 44 million.



Were I to have said "I'm an American" in High School in Quito, I would have been told, "So are we. You are a North American".

When I was the producer of Radio Express' "World Chart Show" we had to be very careful to refer to the country of origin as the "United States of America", particularly in Latin America and Africa. To do otherwise would have resulted in an offense to the sponsors and the stations that carried the show.



And that is why, until recent clueless administration took over the VOA, the Spanish service was La Voz de los Estados Unidos de Norteamérica.

Let's see. Radio América is a radio station on 1190 in Buenos Aires. Radio Panamerica is a Radio Station in Lima. Radio America is a radio station in Quito. La Voz de las Americas was a radio station in Guatemala. Radio América is one of the principal news radio networks in Honduras. Radio América is a radio station in Panamá, Panamá. And so on.

When Nino Bravo, the Spanish superstar of the early 70's, sang his song "América" he said,

América, América
Todo un inmenso jardín
Eso es América
Cuando Dios hizo el edén
Pensó en América

And that was, roughly, "America, America, it's one immense garden. That is America. When God made the Garden of Eden, he thought of America". Hint: he was European and was not singing about the USA.

I don't agree about the numbers classic hip hop and dance would get in New York. I believe they would be higher than K-love's. Go back to Pulse 87's numbers years ago with their limited signal and frequency. I understand that the formats may not be viable financially but again, not my point.

I can't comment on the usage of "American" in South America to the extent I can in the rest of the world so I guess I have learned something about South America although having traveled throughout the continent I've never heard of someone question where an "American" is from, at least in English.
In Europe and the rest of the world (what countries in Africa are you referring to because again that is not my experience?) American means North American.

In the 1960's when Renato Carosone sang in his Neapolitan dialect Tu Vuo' fa' l'americano he sings of the United States and wanting to act like an American, ie. American lifestyle, drinking whisky and soda, dancing to rock 'n roll, playing baseball and smoking Camel cigarettes

 

[davideduardo]

I don't agree about the numbers classic hip hop and dance would get in New York. I believe they would be higher than K-love's. Go back to Pulse 87's numbers years ago with their limited signal and frequency. I understand that the formats may not be viable financially but again, not my point.

Dance has deteriorated significantly in appeal and production in the decade since the Pulse disappeared after financial losses caused it to leave the "87" dial position in New York City. It did very poorly in the first few PPM reports, showing that, while diary entries by a few hard-core fans exaggerated listening time, the cume was very thin.

Throwbacks as a format just have no shelf life. In markets all over the country, the format had come on very strong, and faded to half or less the debut numbers within a year. The format is unsustainable, and there are several dozen stations that proved that and moved on.

I can't comment on the usage of "American" in South America to the extent I can in the rest of the world so I guess I have learned something about South America although having traveled throughout the continent I've never heard of someone question where an "American" is from, at least in English.

With the exception of Guyana, there is no South American nation that speaks English. So if you are speaking in Spanish or Portuguese, you can't use "Americano" as a nationality doing so is a sign of ignorance.

In Europe and the rest of the world (what countries in Africa are you referring to because again that is not my experience?) American means North American.

About 20 nations in sub-Saharan Africa where English, French, Portuguese, vernaculars or a lingua franca like Swahili are spoken. Back when we initiated the World Chart Show, there were versions specifically made for Africa and sponsored by Coke under the supervision of their ad agency (the old McCann-Ericson that became part of the Saatchi group). They were very specific, considering that much of the music came from the US, in the way references were made.

In the 1960's when Renato Carosone sang in his Neapolitan dialect Tu Vuo' fa' l'americano he sings of the United States and wanting to act like an American, ie. American lifestyle, drinking whisky and soda, dancing to rock 'n roll, playing baseball and smoking Camel cigarettes

And when Italo-Argentine artist Piero did his 1970 hit "Los Americanos" it was done as a parody of "Americans" in general, using the term as an example of the lack of world view by "Los Americanos".

 

[TheBigA]

I had suggested the New York radio listener would be better served by one of these formats on 95.5 than a religious one all the while understanding that no media co. would bother with a niche format.

Kind of a moot point, since the format is chosen by the owner, and the owner has chosen K-Love. It's not something made by popular vote.

 

[Tibbs4]

Jeffrey: "I don't agree about the numbers classic hip hop and dance would get in New York. I believe they would be higher than K-love's. Go back to Pulse 87's numbers years ago with their limited signal and frequency. I understand that the formats may not be viable financially but again, not my point."

I appreciate your point that your intent of a valid format is not based upon being a financial success, but financial success IS the ONLY point that EVER matters in a commercial enterprise. Everyone in and out of the radio business knows what stations should be called, what songs they should play, but 99% of their ideas would fail and they could not keep these expensive machines in operation for long. K-Love actually has some pretty serious numbers in many markets and they are, for better or for worse, one of the FEW candidates out there willing to buy these stations for decent prices. I would venture to say that the only successful non-K-Love format on the all new PLJ would be a format geared to listeners that will still be listening three plus years from now. So, it has to be a format "of the future" and not one that's been tried and tried and failed and failed. And that all new approach is a scary proposition. So, if it's not K-Love, the road to building any new station is slow and costly...

This K-Love/EMF buy in is the first major sign of the new reality of radio circa 2020. AM has slidden off the mountain. FM will certainly have it's share of obstacles in the decades ahead. BigA's post above about putting those "old formats" on non-comms is spot on. And speaks volumes about exactly what those formats potential for profit are at this point of radio's life.

 

[TheBigA]

BigA's post above about putting those "old formats" on non-comms is spot on. And speaks volumes about exactly what those formats potential for profit are at this point of radio's life.

The bigger picture is that we all need to think about a new business model, because the one we've operated under no longer applies. It assumed that mass media attracts a mass audience, and with the over abundance of media, it's hard to reach critical mass.

 

[david]

and yet, given the potential format change to "Jesus music"....WPLJ may be the perfect call letters (now if I can only figure out the first two....)

Praise, Love, Jesus

 

[JBraddock]

K-Love cares about the reach of its programming as that is their mission - to reach out to the faithful - but like most noncomms, the metric I would assume they're most concerned about is donations - or "members." Ratings can be a helpful guide as to how well the format reaches those in a market, but the donations are what make a station, or network affiliate in K-Love and NPR's cases, viable. Ratings use a hopefully-representative sample of a market to determine how many might be listening while donations are a cold hard metric.

 

[TheBigA]

K-Love cares about the reach of its programming as that is their mission - to reach out to the faithful

Not just the faithful. They really hope to become part of the conversion process. So they look at all people as potential converts, if they just listen to the message.