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Politically Biased Talk Radio

B

barneyb3

Guest
Being neither a liberal or a conservative....I am sick of the biased talk radio that is taking over this country....This in a simplistic form is how it works....Liberal Radio....takes shots at Republican President.Conservative Radio....Defends Republican president and takes shots at those who take shots at Republican President.And I guarantee you if a Democrat is ever elected again...the roles will be reversed.Why can't anybody do a show that is unbiased? O'Reilly...does for the most part...he will take shots at both sides..but he seems more willing to point out the morons on the left as opposed to the ones on the right.The guy I really have a problem with is Hannity..I have listened to him..off and on since his days in Atlanta....and his act never changes..He promises fair and balanced...and acts like he is doing a news show....but come on....he sides with one team...and is anti the other...and on his TV show on Fox...I have a real problem with him interviewing...the President, the Vice President or anybody else in the Cabinet...He interviews these people like he is on their team...and he does this on a network that promises to be fair and balanced....neither he or Colmes should be allowed to interview a Office holder on his side...When the President is interviewed on Fox it should be by someone who is not an open advocate of his party....
 
You could always listen to NPR's talk shows - On Point, The Connection, etc. NPR usually tries to have both sides of an issue. Although both conservatives and liberals contend that NPR is biased against them (one of the few things they agree on).

Additionally, there was talk on this forum a few weeks ago, about the need for more "centrist-politically-moderate" radio shows. To better reach the talk radio listeners who are politically in the middle, between the polar extremes.


> Being neither a liberal or a conservative....I am sick of
> the biased talk radio that is taking over this
> country....This in a simplistic form is how it
> works....Liberal Radio....takes shots at Republican
> President.Conservative Radio....Defends Republican president
> and takes shots at those who take shots at Republican
> President.And I guarantee you if a Democrat is ever elected
> again...the roles will be reversed.Why can't anybody do a
> show that is unbiased? O'Reilly...does for the most
> part...he will take shots at both sides..but he seems more
> willing to point out the morons on the left as opposed to
> the ones on the right.The guy I really have a problem with
> is Hannity..I have listened to him..off and on since his
> days in Atlanta....and his act never changes..He promises
> fair and balanced...and acts like he is doing a news
> show....but come on....he sides with one team...and is anti
> the other...and on his TV show on Fox...I have a real
> problem with him interviewing...the President, the Vice
> President or anybody else in the Cabinet...He interviews
> these people like he is on their team...and he does this on
> a network that promises to be fair and balanced....neither
> he or Colmes should be allowed to interview a Office holder
> on his side...When the President is interviewed on Fox it
> should be by someone who is not an open advocate of his
> party....
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bigtalkradiofan on 06/29/05 06:11 PM.</FONT></P>
 
I just love how people on this board who talk about how conservative talk radio is biased make broad, sweeping generalizations about conservative talk radio as a whole, then end up bashing Hannity. When will you guys learn not to be so obvious in your attacks? You're making it too easy for me! Seriously, though, I love a good debate... I'm just trying to motivate you into presenting better arguments :)

> Being neither a liberal or a conservative....I am sick of
> the biased talk radio that is taking over this
> country....This in a simplistic form is how it
> works....Liberal Radio....takes shots at Republican
> President.Conservative Radio....Defends Republican president
> and takes shots at those who take shots at Republican
> President.And I guarantee you if a Democrat is ever elected
> again...the roles will be reversed.

The interesting thing is this: not only is that description simplistic, it's overly simplistic. You have to listen to the argument, not just observe that an argument is taking place. Listen to the majority of liberal talk out there and I'll guarantee you that there's no substance to what most of the hosts are saying. It's pure hatred for conservative ideology and President Bush. Then listen to what the majority of conservative talkers are arguing. They're going through their side point-by-point, and no liberal talker does anything to refute those points. I'm not saying they can't (although I do believe that), I'm just saying they don't. Obviously I can't hypothetically ask "when was the last time you heard a liberal talker shoot a piece of conservative ideology out of the sky," as one ideolog is going to see things in an entirely different light than one of an opposing view. However, ask yourself this: are liberal talkers truly making points to counter those of conservative thinkers, or are they just Bush-bashing? I think you'll find the latter is true.

> Why can't anybody do a
> show that is unbiased? O'Reilly...does for the most
> part...he will take shots at both sides..but he seems more
> willing to point out the morons on the left as opposed to
> the ones on the right.

For one thing, the whole point of talk radio is to voice one opinion as opposed to another. It's not really possible to do an "unbiased" talk radio program. Hosts have their opinions, and even if the point of the show is to provide an unbiased forum for callers of opposing views to tell their side of the story, you're not going to come away from the program without knowing at least something of the hosts ideas on a subject. O'Reilly... eh, I don't know how unbiased he really is. As you say, he tends to lean a bit more to the right than anywhere else. The one person I've heard do a really good job is Alan Colmes. Of course we all know he leans left, but he does a great job of keeping his opinion as his own and not forcing it on callers. O'Reilly does have a tendency to try to convince callers that his stance is the right one.

> The guy I really have a problem with
> is Hannity..I have listened to him..off and on since his
> days in Atlanta....and his act never changes..He promises
> fair and balanced...and acts like he is doing a news
> show....but come on....he sides with one team...and is anti
> the other...

I wouldn't say Hannity acts like he's doing a news show. Sure, he promotes himself as the antidote to liberal bias in the mainstream media, but he's always made clear what his position is, and that's one thing he's pointed out again and again: the mainstream media doesn't clarify their position. They claim to be unbiased when they aren't... at least according to Hannity (and I agree with him). But when you tune into Hannity, you know what you're going to get because he tells you up front. As for his siding with one team... as I've pointed out before on this board, there have been many times I can think of when Hannity has disagreed with President Bush and this administration on several topics, such as illegal immigration and border protection, just to name two recent examples. Being anti-liberal... well, obviously there's no argument from me there :-D

> and on his TV show on Fox...I have a real
> problem with him interviewing...the President, the Vice
> President or anybody else in the Cabinet...He interviews
> these people like he is on their team...and he does this on
> a network that promises to be fair and balanced....neither
> he or Colmes should be allowed to interview a Office holder
> on his side...When the President is interviewed on Fox it
> should be by someone who is not an open advocate of his
> party...

Again, Hannity has had problems with President Bush and members of his cabinet, and in every interview I've seen and heard him do, he's confronted them with points he feels are important. I do agree, though, that it does seem a bit biased even if that's the case. What I think would be a better idea is to not have the one-on-one interviews as they've had in the past, even if the host of the opposing view is conducting the interview, and bring these guests on as all the regular guests come: between Sean and Alan, making it a true debate. That's the whole idea of Hannity & Colmes; it's a debate show. Let's actually debate instead of just interviewing!

Post #810 dedicated to 810 WGY Schenectady/Albany, NY
<P ID="signature">______________
"Get educated. Read stuff on the web and believe all of it."
-- Phil Hendrie
http://theradioblog.blogspot.com</P>
 
bigtalkradio has a valid point: NPR does a very good job of trying to keep things centrist. Having been brought up on a diet of BBC output, I would say it compares favorably to the BBC in this regard. I must disagree with J.C.'s earlier posting that it is possible to do a politically unbiased talk show. The BBC has to present all points of view (or keep it unbiased) by law.

The "Today" program, which is the BBC's domestic flagship morning program, does an excellent job of getting a balanced viewpoint. The interviewer usually takes a devil's advocate point of view. The BBC was criticized for having a left-wing (pro Labour) bias but Labour criticize the BBC for having a right-wing bias - to the extent that Tony Blair refuses to be interviewed by John Humphries, and doesn't appear so much on the radio in the morning anymore.

In the wider world, Talking Point on the World Service (which is carried overnight by some NPR affiliates) shows how a non-biased talk show phone in is done.

Mark.
 
Short answer..because "unbiased" talk radio would be boring as all get out. The original poster might be better off with CSPAN.


> bigtalkradio has a valid point: NPR does a very good job of
> trying to keep things centrist. Having been brought up on a
> diet of BBC output, I would say it compares favorably to the
> BBC in this regard. I must disagree with J.C.'s earlier
> posting that it is possible to do a politically unbiased
> talk show. The BBC has to present all points of view (or
> keep it unbiased) by law.
>
> The "Today" program, which is the BBC's domestic flagship
> morning program, does an excellent job of getting a balanced
> viewpoint. The interviewer usually takes a devil's advocate
> point of view. The BBC was criticized for having a
> left-wing (pro Labour) bias but Labour criticize the BBC for
> having a right-wing bias - to the extent that Tony Blair
> refuses to be interviewed by John Humphries, and doesn't
> appear so much on the radio in the morning anymore.
>
> In the wider world, Talking Point on the World Service
> (which is carried overnight by some NPR affiliates) shows
> how a non-biased talk show phone in is done.
>
> Mark.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
I'll get back to you when I think of a cute quote</P>
 
> Short answer..because "unbiased" talk radio would be boring
> as all get out. The original poster might be better off with
> CSPAN.
>
>

Agreed. In the days before the Fairness Doctrine was repealed, talk radio was dulllllllllllllll. We used to call if "toaster talk," as in "Joe Blow from Joe's appliances will spend an hour with our host talking about ensuring that you don't get ripped off when buying a new washer / dryer."

Biased political talk saved AM radio.
 
Dear JC:
I knew when I made my point....people would place me on the the left side of this arguement....please don't do that...I am not comfortable on that side...nor on your side either....but I have nothing against either side..except for the fact that I am sick of the silly way the two sides duel in the media....the right always points to the evils of the "mainstream media" while the left..talks about those awfull right wing conservative talk show hosts....Hey I have worked in radio for 23 years...and I know that all of these hosts on both sides are doing their best schtick just to get ratings....thats all they are doing...even Mr. Hannity..unfortunately their followers beleive everything they say. It really is dividing our little country into two distinct camps..and when that happens its alwasy "I'm right and your wrong"....My point is...isn't this country ready for anything different...couldn't somebody be neutral...and entertaining...by going after both sides when they are wrong. Instead of Hannitizing (brainwashing) America couldn't Mr. Hannity just once look at a political subject and be unbiased...or his he afraid to upset (letdown) all his Hannitized listeners.

Mr. Hannity is an interesting and entertaining broadcaster...but I think he could take his game to a higher level by not being so predictable...and using the same interviewing tactics when he confronts somebody from the other side...Here is an example of one of his tactics:
He will have somebody from the other side on his show....he will play clips of some of the crazy things Al Gore and Ted Kennedy and others say...then Hannity will try to force the guest to say these people are wrong....ofcourse..nobody on either side is going to say their side is wrong...
instead of having an actual debate....Hannity just uses this tired ole useless tactic..that basically just wastes time...and makes him look superior to his guest...instead of using these grandstanding tactics....Mr. Hannity should do an actual fair and balanced interview....he is certainly capable of doing this...<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by barneyb3 on 06/30/05 02:47 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Maybe the problem is not bias

I have a similar reaction to much of talk radio - conservative and liberal. But I do agree that wishy-washy - on-the-other-hand talk radio would be (and was) exceedingly dull. I don't think the problem is bias - maybe more accurately, I don't think the problem is talk radio having a strong point of view. I think the problem is bad manners, outright rudeness and intolerance for other viewpoints. Talk radio is all about cheap shots at those with whom one disagrees. This applies to Rush AND Franken, Hannity AND Rhodes. It started with Point-Counterpoint and Crossfire. Politics has turned into a blood sport and I suspect a lot of people are sick of the whole thing.


> Being neither a liberal or a conservative....I am sick of
> the biased talk radio that is taking over this
> country....This in a simplistic form is how it
> works....Liberal Radio....takes shots at Republican
> President.Conservative Radio....Defends Republican president
> and takes shots at those who take shots at Republican
> President.And I guarantee you if a Democrat is ever elected
> again...the roles will be reversed.Why can't anybody do a
> show that is unbiased? O'Reilly...does for the most
> part...he will take shots at both sides..but he seems more
> willing to point out the morons on the left as opposed to
> the ones on the right.The guy I really have a problem with
> is Hannity..I have listened to him..off and on since his
> days in Atlanta....and his act never changes..He promises
> fair and balanced...and acts like he is doing a news
> show....but come on....he sides with one team...and is anti
> the other...and on his TV show on Fox...I have a real
> problem with him interviewing...the President, the Vice
> President or anybody else in the Cabinet...He interviews
> these people like he is on their team...and he does this on
> a network that promises to be fair and balanced....neither
> he or Colmes should be allowed to interview a Office holder
> on his side...When the President is interviewed on Fox it
> should be by someone who is not an open advocate of his
> party....
>
 
> The "Today" program, which is the BBC's domestic flagship
> morning program, does an excellent job of getting a balanced
> viewpoint. The interviewer usually takes a devil's advocate
> point of view. The BBC was criticized for having a
> left-wing (pro Labour) bias but Labour criticize the BBC for
> having a right-wing bias - to the extent that Tony Blair
> refuses to be interviewed by John Humphries, and doesn't
> appear so much on the radio in the morning anymore.

The BBC is WAY above NPR who needs to change their name to National Establishment Radio. Their news and interview programs rely on a three page phone list of inside the beltway pundits who show up OVER and OVER again. There is no reason to listen to any of it because you already know what they are going to say.

I'd trade out the entire staff of NPR talk shows for one Jeremy Paxman. I've never heard a journalist who can more effectively blow up the 3x5 card prepared talking point answers we get from the usual suspects. Of course, there isn't anyone even close to this guy in American domestic news reporting. Even Russert and Matthews have been neutered because they know if the tough questions get asked, those guests won't be back.

He's asked Conservative party head Michael Howard the same question not less than a dozen times because he wouldn't answer the question. In that same interview, he managed to get Ann Widdecombe to state that she thought Michael had something of the night about him. :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tvseq/newsnight/howard_nn_15qs.ram

On Election night, he managed to fluster George Galloway to the point of him ripping his mike off. Of course, sometimes his unbalancing act does get a little crazy, as when he asked Galloway "what else don't you know" in response to Galloway admitting ignorance about some of his fellow MPs.
 
I would first argue that bias is not a fair word for radio programs (conservative or liberal) that actively tell you what point of view they come from. They may be opinionated, but a bias means that they systematically try to favor one side over another without truly being honest about it.... I'm not sure I'd call it biased radio.

> > Short answer..because "unbiased" talk radio would be
> boring
> > as all get out. The original poster might be better off
> with
> > CSPAN.
> >
> >
>
> Agreed. In the days before the Fairness Doctrine was
> repealed, talk radio was dulllllllllllllll. We used to call
> if "toaster talk," as in "Joe Blow from Joe's appliances
> will spend an hour with our host talking about ensuring that
> you don't get ripped off when buying a new washer / dryer."
>
> Biased political talk saved
AM radio.
>
 
Their first job is ratings...thats how they make money and stay on the air doing what they like.

You're not going to find non-partisian type radio being interesting... Who would want to listen to some moderates that can't make up their mind... Beyond that its not talk radio, but then becomes news radio if its just truly non-partisian talking about the news.

> Dear JC:
> I knew when I made my point....people would place me on the
> the left side of this arguement....please don't do that...I
> am not comfortable on that side...nor on your side
> either....but I have nothing against either side..except for
> the fact that I am sick of the silly way the two sides duel
> in the media....the right always points to the evils of the
> "mainstream media" while the left..talks about those awfull
> right wing conservative talk show hosts....Hey I have worked
> in radio for 23 years...and I know that all of these hosts
> on both sides are doing their best schtick just to get
> ratings....thats all they are doing...even Mr.
> Hannity..unfortunately their followers beleive everything
> they say. It really is dividing our little country into two
> distinct camps..and when that happens its alwasy "I'm right
> and your wrong"....My point is...isn't this country ready
> for anything different...couldn't somebody be neutral...and
> entertaining...by going after both sides when they are
> wrong. Instead of Hannitizing (brainwashing) America
> couldn't Mr. Hannity just once look at a political subject
> and be unbiased...or his he afraid to upset (letdown) all
> his Hannitized listeners.
>
> Mr. Hannity is an interesting and entertaining
> broadcaster...but I think he could take his game to a higher
> level by not being so predictable...and using the same
> interviewing tactics when he confronts somebody from the
> other side...Here is an example of one of his tactics:
> He will have somebody from the other side on his show....he
> will play clips of some of the crazy things Al Gore and Ted
> Kennedy and others say...then Hannity will try to force the
> guest to say these people are wrong....ofcourse..nobody on
> either side is going to say their side is wrong...
> instead of having an actual debate....Hannity just uses this
> tired ole useless tactic..that basically just wastes
> time...and makes him look superior to his guest...instead of
> using these grandstanding tactics....Mr. Hannity should do
> an actual fair and balanced interview....he is certainly
> capable of doing this...
>
 
Bias or advocacy

I think you are confusing bias ("a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment") with advocacy ("the act or process supporting a cause or proposal"). Now, you can say that Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken represents the former, but that depends on ones own advocacy.

I can't imagine anything more boring than a show, whether it's about politics, computers, legal advice or anything else that consists of a talk host who advocates nothing.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan</P>
 
> Dear JC:
> I knew when I made my point....people would place me on the
> the left side of this arguement....please don't do that...I
> am not comfortable on that side...nor on your side
> either....

I'm not trying to put you on one side or the other, I was simply trying to point out that many people on this board start out making sweeping generalizations about conservative talk hosts and end up bashing either Hannity or Rush without actually making points to support their argument. You started out that way, but in this post you've made your position a little more clear. If you took my post as an attempt to put you in any one camp, I apologize. That's not what I intended.

> but I have nothing against either side..except for
> the fact that I am sick of the silly way the two sides duel
> in the media....the right always points to the evils of the
> "mainstream media" while the left..talks about those awfull
> right wing conservative talk show hosts....Hey I have worked
> in radio for 23 years...and I know that all of these hosts
> on both sides are doing their best schtick just to get
> ratings....thats all they are doing...even Mr.
> Hannity..unfortunately their followers beleive everything
> they say.

Sure, every host is going to have his or her schtick... that's just the nature of radio. As for their listeners believing everything they say, I'd have to disagree with you. I've had and have heard many other listeners who have disagreements with Rush, Sean and other conservative hosts. On the other side of the coin, though, many people have said that talk radio listeners, no matter what side they're on and/or listening to, are going along with the hosts because the hosts have essentially brainwashed them. That's not at all the case, as I'm sure you know. Listeners gravitate toward hosts they agree with most, left, right or center. Maybe even a combination of all three! So sure, hosts try to get ratings in the best way they can, but I think the motivation is more of an idea that the listeners enjoy reaffirming what they already believe, not going to the host to be told what they believe.

> It really is dividing our little country into two
> distinct camps..and when that happens its alwasy "I'm right
> and your wrong"....

I think that's the whole point. There are those of us in this country (and, according to the last election, we're in the majority) who see things as black and white, right and wrong. Agree or disagree with that ideology as you'd like; that's how this country moves forward. We compromise on things, and while many on one side of the aisle or another may disagree with the compromise, somehow or another things tend to move along. There will always be that "I'm right and you're wrong" mentality... the question is, how do we work together to provide the best results? Usually, one way or another, the system works. While it may seem divisive, I think (in one of those odd ways that defies logic) it actually helps the political process. If nothing else, it provides motivation for our legislators so they don't have to put up with all the complaining any longer :)

> My point is...isn't this country ready
> for anything different...couldn't somebody be neutral...and
> entertaining...by going after both sides when they are
> wrong.

I think that's pretty much how things work, except we have separate sides going after each other instead of one host taking them all on. I don't think there's any way a host can truly be "neutral". As I pointed out before, there's always going to be some point at which a hosts opinion is going to show through.

> Instead of Hannitizing (brainwashing) America
> couldn't Mr. Hannity just once look at a political subject
> and be unbiased...or his he afraid to upset (letdown) all
> his Hannitized listeners.

Well, take a look at the Terri Schiavo case. During the whole ordeal, all Sean would say is that there are too many questions being left unanswered. Of course he took the position that Terri should have lived... I don't think there are very many conservatives that would say she should die, especially not the way she did. But while many of his listeners were saying "Michael did it! He should burn in Hell for killing his wife," Sean maintained a neutral position because, frankly, he didn't have all the facts. Frankly, I don't think anyone had (or has now) all the facts in that case, and I think Sean did a good job of reflecting that in his own coverage of the story.

> Mr. Hannity is an interesting and entertaining
> broadcaster...but I think he could take his game to a higher
> level by not being so predictable...and using the same
> interviewing tactics when he confronts somebody from the
> other side...Here is an example of one of his tactics:
> He will have somebody from the other side on his show....he
> will play clips of some of the crazy things Al Gore and Ted
> Kennedy and others say...then Hannity will try to force the
> guest to say these people are wrong....ofcourse..nobody on
> either side is going to say their side is wrong...

See, that's exactly his point: in the view of himself and his listners, the guest he has on is wrong, and he's showcasing their refusal to admit it. Like you said, that's his schtick.

> instead of having an actual debate....Hannity just uses this
> tired ole useless tactic..that basically just wastes
> time...and makes him look superior to his guest...instead of
> using these grandstanding tactics....Mr. Hannity should do
> an actual fair and balanced interview....he is certainly
> capable of doing this...

And there again lies the issue here: he's not balanced. Fair, yes, but balanced, no, and he's never claimed to be. That was the whole point of my original post: talk radio is all about opinion.<P ID="signature">______________
"Get educated. Read stuff on the web and believe all of it."
-- Phil Hendrie
http://theradioblog.blogspot.com</P>
 
> I would first argue that bias is not a fair word for radio
> programs (conservative or liberal) that actively tell you
> what point of view they come from. They may be
> opinionated, but a bias means that they systematically try
> to favor one side over another without truly being honest
> about it.... I'm not sure I'd call it biased radio.

Good point. I'd have to say that a good majority of the hosts out there on both sides say what they say because they truly believe it (although there are exceptions to the rule). Whether you agree or disagree with them isn't an issue. They truly believe what they're saying. That's not bias, it's opinion.
<P ID="signature">______________
"Get educated. Read stuff on the web and believe all of it."
-- Phil Hendrie
http://theradioblog.blogspot.com</P>
 
I had to put Hannity in the category of hosts who are normally sensible who went off the deep end over Shiave, particularly repeating accusations against Miochael Shiavo that were made up. Everything about the case was on line, and as Mike McConnell (WLW, The Weekend) kept saying despite all the nasty e-mails, all anyone has to do is look it up because all the facts are online..testimony and all.<P ID="signature">______________
I'll get back to you when I think of a cute quote</P>
 
Because of the success of FOX and conservative radio, now we get arguments like the ones below..and I strongly disagree..opinionated radio and television has destroyed journalism. Bias exists...journalism is on the wane. I don't expect talk radio to be good journalism, but to say that most of the material we listen to on talk radio is unbiased is ludicrious. In addition, I still say that one needs a bit of an dissenting voice to make good radio and entertaining radio.

For example...Rush has spent 20 years pounding the left with his opinions which are without a doubt biased to the right wing of the spectrum....Rush never spends time airing a dissenting view. When the right wing limits the dissenting view via screening calls (Rush and Hannity especially) or simply filtering all dissent...its a clear case of bias. The left may be just as shrill...but the opposing view does get air time on liberal radio...and i find that of more value that listening to one sided talk day after day after day.....its biased on the left as well but the opportunity for discourse/debate is greater on the left than on the right....i dont think the left minds a debate but the right doesn't want any dissent..my opinion...


> > I would first argue that bias is not a fair word for radio
>
> > programs (conservative or liberal) that actively tell you
> > what point of view they come from. They may be
> > opinionated, but a bias means that they systematically try
>
> > to favor one side over another without truly being honest
> > about it.... I'm not sure I'd call it biased radio.
>
> Good point. I'd have to say that a good majority of the
> hosts out there on both sides say what they say because they
> truly believe it (although there are exceptions to the
> rule). Whether you agree or disagree with them isn't an
> issue. They truly believe what they're saying. That's not
> bias, it's opinion.
>
 
Re: Bias or advocacy

> I think you are confusing bias ("a personal and sometimes
> unreasoned judgment") with advocacy ("the act or process
> supporting a cause or proposal"). Now, you can say that Rush
> Limbaugh or Al Franken represents the former, but that
> depends on ones own advocacy.
>

I read Jerry's thought above and am still forming some limited agreement but I think most talk show hosts conflate bias and advocacy rather than try to lean in either direction....Both Franken and Limbaugh are advocates of their respective parties and both are biased to their respective beliefs...

I believe Franken is delivering a message less of pure bias based on his efforts to draw in conservatives....I don't think he can be accused of being biased as much as Rush because he has in his year and a half reached out to several conservatives in all arenas of politics and the media. When he has them on, he certainly shows an advocacy for the liberal/democrative values...but he allows a forum where both sides, I believe, get a decent hearing. From Norm Orenstein (fellow at AEI, no liberal organization by any means) to John Fund (Wall Street Journal) to Sean Hannity (talk radio host) to his simulcast of his show with G. Gordon Liddy (conservative talk radio host) to his broadcasting from the Conservative Forum to his inviting bloggers from Little Green Footballs and Powerline on his show - Franken has done things to provide a sembalance of balance (bias exists for sure) but he has offered the other side input and airtime.....something you have not seen Hannity, Rush, O'Reilly, etc do on their respective shows at all.......so lets not push those two together as two sides of the same coin......i think the better yin to rush's yang is Randi Rhodes who I agree with many is the Anti-Rush. Randi Rhodes is a template biased, self promoting talk show host with deep opinions and who limits the debate to her terms....that makes her in my eyes the anti-rush...but I love her because as jerry said above...my advocacy leans left...so i can agree with her views and accept her bias.

Some additional points to remember, the Right has relied heavily on talk radio to gain political dominance, especially in the nation’s heartland and increasingly with working-class Americans, even though their financial interests tend to suffer under conservative policies. While they have had a stranglehold on talk radio, the issue of bias was never mentioned..its now being spun as the "problem" with Liberal Radio. When it was one-sided it was ok but now that a challenger has arisen, its suddently fashionable to point the finger of bias.

The conservative media clout in Middle America (the so-called "Heartland") and other parts of the US is even more pronounced than in cities on the East and West coasts. Now that liberal radio resurgence has begun to "infiltrate" Middle America and the rest of US, now the accusations begin to flow that liberal radio is "hate" or "bush-bashing" or without substance. For years, all these Middle Americans heard on their car radios was how evil liberals were and how Democrats weren’t “real Americans.” Not surprisingly, this went nearly unchallenged by democrats and liberals. Talk radio did influence how Americans thought and voted. Now, the great AAR experiment and the re-energizing of liberal hosts is showing signs of shifting the great bias away from the far right. Democrats and Liberals on talk radio are defending liberal values and criticizing conservative hypocrisy. Will there ever be balance in talk radio, who knows?

Liberal radio is beginning to find its voice and the Republicans/Conservatives have begun to stumble as of late....Those supporters of the new format have agonized for years over how to get the Democrats to fight back. They now realize making investments in talk radio as well as other media can bring major returns in convincing Democrats that there is a future in standing up to Republicans. The right is battling this with more and more accusations of bias....but it wont work in the long run.
 
Re: Maybe the problem is not bias

> I have a similar reaction to much of talk radio -
> conservative and liberal. But I do agree that wishy-washy -
> on-the-other-hand talk radio would be (and was) exceedingly
> dull. I don't think the problem is bias - maybe more
> accurately, I don't think the problem is talk radio having a
> strong point of view. I think the problem is bad manners,
> outright rudeness and intolerance for other viewpoints.
> Talk radio is all about cheap shots at those with whom one
> disagrees. This applies to Rush AND Franken, Hannity AND
> Rhodes. It started with Point-Counterpoint and Crossfire.
> Politics has turned into a blood sport and I suspect a lot
> of people are sick of the whole thing.
>


Agreed, but sadly neither side shows any willingness to back off for fear of being seen as "caving".

I've pretty much given up on talk radio for that reason...the mindless lockstep with the Republicans on conservative talk and the equally mindless Bush bashing on libtalk. Foo on both.
 
Re: Bias or advocacy

"I believe Franken is delivering a message less of pure bias based on his efforts to draw in conservatives....I don't think he can be accused of being biased as much as Rush because he has in his year and a half reached out to several conservatives in all arenas of politics and the media."

I will restrain my impulse to refute this. I only point out that my original post was without opinion about the whether or not Limbaugh or Franken are biased because my political views would prevent even the illusion of objectivity. Likewise, your political views (bias if you will) prevent you from being being perceived as objective. Objectivity is an illusion to the person who perceives himself to be objective.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan</P>
 
<font face=arial><div align="justify">
"journalism is on the wane.

The golden age of journalism is over for professional journalists. It is just beginning for the consumers of news. The choices are much more diverse now. I don't believe you can get an accurate take on world events by seeking "unbiased" reporting. You do it by reading news from people with a variety of biases. You can then triangulate a three dimensional view of events and create your own opinion which will contain its own biases. Objectivity is an illusion.

"I don't expect talk radio to be good journalism, but to say that most of the material we listen to on talk radio is unbiased is ludicrious."

Agreed. Limbaugh says exactly the same thing. He has a point of view (a bias) and openly reveals it. It is the <u>claim</u> of objectivity that is ludicrous.

"his opinions which are without a doubt biased to the right wing of the spectrum.... "

As you probably know, the terms "right" and "left" as applied to political ideology derive from the seating of parliamentary partisans during the French Revolution. That gave birth to the idea that political ideology is a straight line with two ends. It is completely unsatisfactory imagery and I would wipe it out if I could. It's as if someone were to ask another: "Are you Jewish?" and he replied: "Yes, but I'm not an extremist". (Or as Justice Scalia recently said: What is a moderate in terms of the law? Would you ask a lawyer to draw up a moderate contract?)

Count me as one who believes that unbiased news reporting is a chimera. You'd have better luck building a perpetual motion machine. Bias shows up in any story more complicated than a man crossing the street and getting hit by a car. And even that can become biased if the reporter cares to make it so:

<big><font color=blue>
A man was killed while crossing a street in Simpsonville today. Robert Smith was crossing highway 14 when a 1999 Ford Expedition, driven by Thomas Jones of Greenville struck and killed Smith. Jones was not cited and police are still investigating.

Or

An Armenian man was killed by an SUV while crossing highway 14 in Simpsonville this morning. Robert Smith, a political refugee who came to the United States last year, was killed while crossing Highway 14 to borrow a cup of sugar from his neighbor. While police could not immediately determine the cause of the accident, the 4 1/4 ton SUV left nearly 200 foot skid marks before striking and killing Mr. Jones. A Toyota Prius, by comparison, weighs less than twenty-nine hundred pounds. Mr. Jones was returning from an America First meeting, a group that some accuse of anti-Armenian sentiment.<font color=black> </big><P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan</P>
 
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