POLL: Favorite Rock Imaging

[hungryhawk]

Taking a poll here on Rock imaging

Favorite Voice:

Favorite FX package:

Favorite Station Overall:

Chime in now!~

 

[VODood]

Favorite Voice:

John Wells for rock/classic rock
Malcolm Ryker and Mike Bratton, alternative, alt classic

Favorite FX package: Chase Cuts and Frostbytes

Favorite Station Overall: WEBN. No one writes like Joel Moss.

 

[hungryhawk]

Good choices VODOOD
Since I really should have started with my own...oops...Here they are:

Favorite Voice: Jude Corbet/Ben Gill (Alt.)
John Wells (Rock)

Favorite FX: Frostbytes

Favorite Overall: KROQ (Wil Morgan!)

 

[bobbybooey]

V-O: for rock - Brian Christopher (the big-voiced one)
for alt - Will Morgan, Mike Bratton, Steve Stone
female - Ann Dewig

FX Package: AudioBitXChange (disclaimer: a buddy of mine runs it, but it's multi-format and the rock stuff is bad-ass!)

Overall: with so many stations cutting back due to Less-Is-More, WEBN kinda wins by default... there aren't too many others that still use real creative imaging. The old Rock 103-5 Chicago still holds a place in my heart though, when Ned Spindle was allowed to run completely insane.... great, great stuff.

 

[hungryhawk]

Guys, I have to admit I wasn't familiar with WEBN until I re-read this thread. But after streaming them I gotta say I like what I heard. While I am a bit confused hearing a few long length spoof bits (one for a movie, the other like radio drama) I must say I am impressed. I am so familiar with the "less is more strategy that I thought it showed some serious chutzpah on the programmers part to allow for that kinf of stopping down.
This board is truly a great resource for our community.

Thanks for the leads. Also, I would also like to send kudos to BC. That guy sounds great.

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Favorite Voice(s): Jeff Berlin/David Kaye

FX: Frostbytes/Digital Juice

Favorite Station: More than favorite stations, I have favorite imaging guys. Joel Moss and Dave Foxx are the two biggies.

 

[VODood]

I noted Malcolm Ryker for VO, but he's one helluva writer and producer as well.

Also Vito Gorinas when he used to image WKLS/ATL (before project 96). Vito is now with The Creative Group.


FAV Female VO: Ann Dewig

And WOW, can she produce as well; KBPI, KEGL, DC101


WEBN's Joel Moss is the "Father" of rock imaging. Before Spindler or Frost there was Moss. I believe Joel has been imaging WEBN since 1983-84. One of his protege's is Cousin Deke, now at KDGE/Dallas. Deke is pretty freakin' good himself.

Thankfully even in the b.s. world of LIM Moss is still able to deliver ear candy.



FOR CHR, no one IMO is better than Eric Chase (Chase Cuts).

 

[Emmett1057]

With the exception of personality-driven shows, I actually prefer the 'less is more' approach. I hate creative sweepers. Promos are different and should be creative. But I can't stand it when sweepers are cluttered with anything more than business.

That being said, WXRK is sounding really good these days. It's a perfect example of what LIM imaging should sound like. It assaults the ears for 3-4 seconds without being intrusive.

Love Stone, Ann and Jeff Berlin for VO.

Emmett

 

[Bighead2]

Fave Rock Voices - Al Murdoch (Killer pipes with personality)/Chris Corley (nuff said)
Fave Alt Rock Voice - Audioboy

FX - Rocksplat (from streetslpat)

Fave Rock Stations - KATT,WIMZ,CFMI

Fave Station Overall - KROQ

 

[dittohead1]

My favorite voices are Joe Kelly, Brian James, and Paul Turner.

 

[VODood]

I actually prefer the 'less is more' approach. I hate creative sweepers. Promos are different and should be creative. But I can't stand it when sweepers are cluttered with anything more than business.

Noted, but I think it depends on when you "came up" in the business and who you learned/mentored from. Not taking a shot Emmett, I sincerely mean it. It depends on who you learned from, what decade, what part of the country, and other influences. Most of today's Execs all came up in the 80s - when liners in less than 10sec was the rage. Look what's going on today. Sound familiar?

Most radio today is overtly homogenized. Running creative sweeps, vignettes, etc do what radio is meant to do - entertain then inform. Rarely does the listener get entertained anymore outside of AM Drive. Sometimes not even there.

Listen to some old airchecks; 60s, 70s, 80s and even KROQ circa Frost. I've got two Frost/KROQ promos from 1995 for the "KRock Kalendar". Pure genius. More than 60sec each but you don't even notice.

Now, just because it's longer than 10sec doesn't mean it's good every single time. All depends on who's producing. I've scored quite a few times, fumbled on some others.

It takes some cajones these day for a PD and a station, ie WEBN, to still air "longer" creative sweeps, which in this day and age is over 05sec (EEK!). If it's good the listener isn't going anywhere. The music has to be right first and foremost. One "long" sweep won't make a P1, or even P2, punch out.\

It's ok kiddies if a sweep is 10-12 or even (gasp!) 15sec long, if it entertains. And if it informs as well then you scored twice. Not every ID need to be a positioner stating "10 in row", which listeners don't give a crap about anyway.


I know it's an AM station, but it "rocks" imaging better than most FM rockers.... WLW/AM 700 Cinci. GREAT writing.

 

[surfdude]

Most radio "Imaging" is annoying - much like the promo crawls on network TV.
Get that off the screen!

The last three songs you played should BE your image. You don't have to tell them you play the Best Rock or the Greatest Hits of the 70s and 80s.

The right music, tell 'em the dial postition, and topical/local DJ content. Done.
No song montages, no "the station everyone can agree on at work" BS.

Jack-FM gets it right. They're imaging serves as the topical/local irreverent "personality". Their stuff is
short, funny, and topical. Listen to KCBS-FM in LA for thirty minutes.

Jingles on pop stations work nicely for dial position. People begin to sing along with them if they're good.

Favorite voices...

Howard Cogan
John O'Hurley
Barry Corbin

Real voice actors. Most standard radio imaging VOs could not pull off what these guys can do.

Favorite efx package...none.

Now that stations don't have a lot of good live DJs anymore, the Imaging may become more important and offer more work for freelancers. But, you have to develop a real personality for your imaging VO like "Jack".
It's not about the "growl" or the "efx", it's about the writing and acting.

 

[VODood]

Most radio "Imaging" is annoying - much like the promo crawls on network TV.
Get that off the screen!

The last three songs you played should BE your image. You don't have to tell them you play the Best Rock or the Greatest Hits of the 70s and 80s.

The right music, tell 'em the dial postition, and topical/local DJ content. Done.
No song montages, no "the station everyone can agree on at work" BS.

Jack-FM gets it right. They're imaging serves as the topical/local irreverent "personality". Their stuff is
short, funny, and topical. Listen to KCBS-FM in LA for thirty minutes.

Jingles on pop stations work nicely for dial position. People begin to sing along with them if they're good.

Favorite voices...

Howard Cogan
John O'Hurley
Barry Corbin

Real voice actors. Most standard radio imaging VOs could not pull off what these guys can do.

Favorite efx package...none.

Now that stations don't have a lot of good live DJs anymore, the Imaging may become more important and offer more work for freelancers. But, you have to develop a real personality for your imaging VO like "Jack".
It's not about the "growl" or the "efx", it's about the writing and acting.

Only two JACK stations in America do well, Kansas City and Indianapolis. Maybe L.A., but overall JACK formats don't do all that well.

And the original JACK format, on the internet, is where the first JACK station in Canada got it's programming. AND, that Canadian terrestrial JACK station has ALWAYS had jocks. Only the U.S. versions were cannabalized to be jockless.

Indy, programmed by my buddy Steve Cannon (former WTRG Raleigh PD) as now added jocks 6am-6pm. In a limited roll to start, but he's expanding their presence more and more. Have to. Can't have a jockless station. Won't fly.

Agreed that the first and foremost reason a listener tunes to a particular channel is the music, and the expectations they have from that channel had better be met. If not the listener is off to another channel who will give he/she what they want.

WDJO/Cinci is a great example of oldies, old school as it may sound, that delivers the right music mix and compelling talent/content. Big market Cinci talent since on air from the heyday of the 60s/70s. And I personally never tire of Charlie Van Dyke. He does sound his age these days, but man, what a voice! To think he had that voice at 24 and doing AM drive at CKLW or KHJ. Amazing!


I'll agree on Corbin. But it also has to do with the writing from the producer (most PD's can't write unless they have a production background) and then how it's produced. Corbin and the Wolf formats are a great marriage. Matt @ www.fullmoonsound.com does a great job with the Entercom stations he produces.

John Gorman of WMMS fame, and a former PD of mine, used to be a magazine writer before getting into radio. He could write some great theater of mind copy.

OHurley is ok for a stunt or a short run time. Can't be used long term. Too annoying IMO. I know surf that you used OHurley on Y102-9, but not long correct? Whether it was cost or burn.

Jingles work for all formats but sports, rock/classic rock/alt.

Great for NT, CHR, Oldies, HAC/AC and Jazz. I listen to WOR-AM online. Love the jingles!

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Most radio "Imaging" is annoying - much like the promo crawls on network TV.
Get that off the screen!

I can't say that I disagree with you here. I think many times the Production guy is also the imaging guy, so they don't have the time, creativity or even the skills to put together a tight package.

The last three songs you played should BE your image. You don't have to tell them you play the Best Rock or the Greatest Hits of the 70s and 80s.

The right music, tell 'em the dial postition, and topical/local DJ content. Done.
No song montages, no "the station everyone can agree on at work" BS.

This is debatable. People listen to your station to feel connected to the music, and imaging should reinforce that connection. People don't want to hear you're the "Best" or "Greatest", but telling them that along with the dial position and call letters isn't imaging, it's your positioning statement. Big difference. Song montages reinforce the musical connecton your listeners will experience if/when they tune in to your station.Your right about the work thing, that's just weak and lazy.

Now that stations don't have a lot of good live DJs anymore, the Imaging may become more important and offer more work for freelancers.

This one baffles me!?! The statement about the DJ's is very broad. I know of many stations with lots of really good jocks. I also know of some stations with less that serviceable talent. About the imaging, freelancers? Imaging is a key component of the success of a radio station, so it is always important whether the dj's are good or not. Is your point that some freelancers "get it" more than some staffers that don't have the time to create the good stuff? Not sure I follow your logic on the freelance thing.

 

[roninMIKE]

dave foxx mentioned in a rap column a while back that effective imaging evokes emotion in the listener. whether it's a winners promo, concert recap or even a sweep, you have to be able to connect with the listener on some sort of an emotional level. i think the reason that a lot of imaging seems subpar is because it lacks that emotional connection. combine that with great writing and you have a winning combination.

rM

 

[Emmett1057]

Noted, but I think it depends on when you "came up" in the business and who you learned/mentored from. Not taking a shot Emmett, I sincerely mean it. It depends on who you learned from, what decade, what part of the country, and other influences. Most of today's Execs all came up in the 80s - when liners in less than 10sec was the rage. Look what's going on today. Sound familiar?

No offense taken at all...I would agree with that. For me though, at least for the first few years, I didn't learn from anyone or have a mentor. I learned by making stuff that I thought sounded cool and stuff that, as a listener, I would like to hear. As I started doing things "the right way", I picked up some mentors, but my idea of what works has always been based on my own preference as a listener.

I'm right in the center of the alternative target demo...Which makes me less experienced than most on this board. It also means that I've got a ridiculously short attention span, just like the rest of my generation. And that's the reason I like the short stuff. But that only counts for sweepers. Get in and get out without the listener really realizing that the music ever stopped. That's what I shoot for.

Frost is an interesting breed and for promos, I follow his style. The humor is very quick and he is able to cram 4 minutes worth of material into a :60 promo. The whole thing is so fast and clever, with constant punchlines, that his work can hold my attention. But again, he is delivering a punchline (of some sort) every few seconds.

I'll admit that I also prefer jocks who get in and get out. I like everything quick, and I think there's a real skill to being able to develop a personality, while keeping breaks very short and sweet. Just as I think there's a real skill to keeping sweepers fresh and exciting, but at the same time, keeping them very, very short.

So yeah, it just comes down to personal preference and what I feel is most effective. Granted, my theories only really apply to alternative.

Emmett

 

[Winwahoo]

Interesting topic...

*
Favored voice (not sure I have a "favorite") = John Wells, Vic Caroli (I particularly like Cousin Deke's writing for John Wells, and I'm a huge fan of Ned Spindle's scripts for Vic

 

[Winwahoo]

sorry......"technology", and the ever-increasing dilemma here at the studio with my inability to hit the "send" button at the appropriate time...

As I was saying.......

* Favored voice (not sure I have a "favorite")

Rock = John Wells, Vic Caroli (I particularly like Joel Moss and Cousin Deke's writing for John Wells, and I'm a huge fan of Ned Spindle's scripts for Vic.)

AAA = Jim Conrad. We used him at KDKA after hearing him on KFOG. Really good.

Did I mention that I'm a huge fan of Ned Spindle?

* FX Package - hmmm....like most, I suppose I gravitated towards AV Deli, Killer Hertz stuff. As an "independent producer" now, I'm always on the hunt for things. (especially of the "inexpensive" variety) But, to be honest, if I hear one more "static burst", I'm gonna scream.

I have to admit that I didn't quite understand the inference regarding, what seemed to be, "freelancers" inability to comprehend the complexities of imaging the modern station. Some us who used to sit in production studios doing imaging prior to down-sizing are now those same "freelancers". So, I ask, "wh-wh-wh-what!!??"

LIM....or not LIM? Hmmm....well, I understand the rationale, but, personally, I didn't get into radio, or production/imaging, solely for LIM. I "get" the philosophy behind it, the challenge inherent in promoting something "clever" about Rush Limbaugh or Dennis Miller, for instance, in an allotted :10... and, of course, the necessity to hit the network feed at the TOH. But other than that....hell, I want all the time I can get to be creative!!

I liken it to "Saturday Night Live". You're a couple of minutes or so into a "bit"...and...it's just not working. It continues on for awhile and you "feel" it in your abdomen that....this should just....end. I feel the same away about a sweeper or a promo. (In fact, I think sweepers ARE promos. Or can be.) If it's good, then roll with it. If it's not, then end it. I remember a Joel Moss piece several years ago involving a press conference with the Rolling Stones, during their visit to Cincinnati. As I recall, Joel was the "news reporter" and used clips of the Stones press conference as "answers" to his "questions". It's a bit that's been done about a gazillion times. But it was GOOD. And FUNNY. And LONG. And I didn't care WHEN it ended. So, I ask...."what's wrong with that?" Why shorten something....if it's....good? To do what...play "Sweet Emotion"....AGAIN?

I also had the luxury of hearing Ann DeWig put Sony Vegas through its paces every day while at DC-101, and only a nutbag would have reeled her in when she felt it necessary to "stretch the boundaries".

I'm not equating "good" with "length" (at least not for radio, necessarily.) Sometimes "short is better". It depends on the situation. But I just don't agree with it as a "code of creative conduct". Maybe the trend of PD's and OM's going the LIM route is simply because they don't foster Joel Moss or Ned Spindle-type creativity? Maybe they don't know how. Then again, I suppose I'm also from the school of thought that says that a "more music morning show" for a station is merely a quick-fix....until a morning show can be found!

Lastly (at least for this post) I agree that folks like Barry Corbin, John Corbett, John O'Hurley, and the like, are great! But I think there are a handful of other VO folks who would really relish more opportunities to play "voice-actor", if the copy was just....better! Just my opinion...but nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is better than a well-written promo, commercial, or sweeper! Writing is, by far, my favorite thing about production and imaging. Man, I wish we could also include our favorite WRITERS, along with favorite VOICE or favorite FX PACKAGE. I don't know if I'm a good copywriter, but I sure do enjoy it! I used to tell groups who would come through KDKA that my favorite imaging tool, by far, is Microsoft Word! It's better than Pro Tools, Vegas, Adobe Audition, Cakewalk...all of them! And the only thing I enjoy as much as writing a good promo is being able to voice someone else's well-written promo. I LOVE interpreting copy, and I hope I'm ok at it!

So, I'm mentioning my favored WRITER:

Favored Writer(s) = Blair Trosper Imaging Director, WBT-AM Charlotte - clever, erudite, cunning wit
Tim Sheehan, PD, WRKI-FM, Danbury, CT - witty, engaging, sarcastic

I've really enjoyed "performing" their words. (or at least trying to!)

Ok, back to it. In addition to waiting for well-written copy, we "freelancers" have to go find new clients!

Oh, did I mention that I'm a big fan of Ned Spindle?

Matt Anthony
Matt Anthony Voiceovers
www.mattanthony.com
check out the Matt BLOG:
http://mattmultimedia.blogspot.com/

 

[VODood]

I vote Matt Anthony as one of the best copywriters for imaging. If anyone has missed his work you can hear it via Premiere Plug and Play News-Talk imaging. Great stuph! I used it all the time when I...had a job

 

[MattontheRadio]

Favorite Voice(s): Jeff Berlin/David Kaye

FX: Frostbytes/Digital Juice

Favorite Station: More than favorite stations, I have favorite imaging guys. Joel Moss and Dave Foxx are the two biggies.

I use Jeff to image our Hot AC. Definitely a different delivery. But he's VERY solid and great on voicing stuff whenever. Does great work for KAZR/Des Moines (Brian Whitaker imaging, he does amazing stuff)